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Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard
Besides the fact that antiX 16.1 comes with all 173 bug fixes and security patches implemented by the Debian Project in the new Debian GNU/Linux 8.7 "Jessie" release, but without the systemd init system, the distribution is using the long-term supported Linux 4.4.10 kernel customized with a fbcondecor splash.
Additionally, the new antiX version includes two applications, namely live-usb-maker and live-kernel-updater, which allow users to create a Live USB disk of antiX that you can use to run the operating system without having to install it on your personal computer, and update the kernel without the need to reboot the PC.
Meh, I'll stick with Calculate Linux for now.
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AntiX 16.1 Linux OS is Based on Debian GNU/Linux 8.7 - Without Systemd
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In Tulsa, Oklahoma, it is against the law to open a soda bottle without
the supervision of a licensed engineer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Thursday January 19 2017, @08:31PM
I rarely boot machines, and what little boot time improvement systemd can provide is not at all worth the increased hassle and time to wrestle systemd into submission.
Not to mention the people who say they found one day that their systemd machine no longer can figure out how to boot up because some components trying to start in parallel got into a slapfight and can't agree who goes first.
The central reason systemd proponents give for adopting it seems to be boot time (well, that and "these other people did a horrible job; I can do it better from scratch myself"), but we're talking about reducing my boot time from 5 minutes to 3 once or twice a day, which is nowhere near enough justification to mangle various other parts of the system that are already working fine.
I could *maybe* accept that there's merit to the approach if there were somebody other than Lennart Poettering in charge of it. Maybe.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday January 19 2017, @09:56PM
Holy moly batman! Why do you reboot so often?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Touché) by DannyB on Thursday January 19 2017, @10:58PM
People attracted to systemd come from Windows and thus have an expectation of needing to reboot frequently.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday January 20 2017, @03:05AM
I don't leave my desktop running at night just to waste electricity. Crazy, I know.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Friday January 20 2017, @03:16AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday January 20 2017, @03:27AM
And the point of using suspend on a desktop is...?
I mean yeah, okay, it's a nice feature to have. But I don't really see any reason why I should alter my workflow to use it. It's not like when I boot up I sit there and stare at the screen the entire couple minutes (gasp!) it's booting.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Arik on Friday January 20 2017, @04:21AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 20 2017, @04:18PM
"it lets you come back to exactly the place you left it. Programs and context are preserved."
menu, system settings, session and startup on and xfce desktop. I remember making the same settings on Gnome 2.something or other, when I installed my first working Linux - a long time ago. I took a short journey into KDE land, and I'm sure I remember the same settings, long before KDE4. Enlightenment has similar settings available.
I'd be willing to make a small bet that if these settings were unavailabe, I could probably write a script to do the same thing. Note that I'm not even a coder, or even an accomplished script kiddie. But, it really can't be very difficult to recover a desktop session. Systemd didn't solve any problems in that area.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Friday January 20 2017, @08:24PM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday January 20 2017, @11:26PM
Suspend-to-disk is not only for laptops.
Never seen it actually work on a desktop. On my current desktop it ALMOST worked the last time I tried it. Sata 0-0 (SSD with /) and 0-1 came back but sata 1-0 didn't. There goes four hours of slowness to rebuild the RAID1 with $HOME and disable power management again. It is always been that way for me, it comes close to working on a desktop once in a while but never quite makes it. Much better luck with a Thinkpad, enough kernel devs use them that they get enough love to keep power management reliable.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday January 21 2017, @06:26AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday January 21 2017, @07:08AM
Here are three example systems:
1. Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 Motherboard with Radeon R7 250 Video. Centos 6 with all current patches. Power management in the GUI is disabled since I know it doesn't work and I don't want people messing with it. But if I type pm-suspend as root in a graphical terminal it just sits there and does nothing. From a console it suspends but while a keystroke will wake it the keyboard doesn't work. Dead.
2. Gigabyte GA-M61PM-S3 with Radeon X850 XT, cloned from same Centos 6 master image as above. In a graphical terminal pm-suspend leaves the screen on, keyboard running but kills the HDD and nothing gets things back short of reset. From a console it suspends but the keyboard won't wake it and pressing power starts the fans (at full speed) and nothing else happens. Cold restart required here.
3. ASRock N68C-GS FX + Nvidia GeForce 8400. Fedora 23 + all current patches. The effect I described earlier where the first pair of SATA ports come back and the second doesn't.
Multiple Thinkpads around here all work perfectly of course, have for years, work every time, under Fedora, Centos and Devuan. The Mrs. has a Toshiba laptop and it also has flawless power management under Centos. Had good luck with an EeePC. Laptop good, desktop bad.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday January 21 2017, @09:02AM
Without the hardware to test of course I could only guess at the problem, but it sounds like it very well might be the wrong drivers. Doesn't fedora try to autodetect everything? That can be very error prone.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 20 2017, @04:11PM
Here in America, we don't need to justify wasting electricity. It just comes natural. Drive through any city in the wee hours of the morning, and they've left tens of thousands of light bulbs burning for no reason.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by tangomargarine on Friday January 20 2017, @04:46PM
I would say the reason is probably to keep the crime rate down. It's much easier to mug/rape/kill/etc. peeps unnoticed when every street is a dark alley.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Thursday January 19 2017, @10:50PM
Then you get the punchline. The whole reason we HAD to adopt systemd, boottime, is bogus. Install devuan + slimdm on a (older, slower even) laptop and watch it boot. The time between POST / GRUB and a login screen is so short an external monitor can't lock down a signal between GRUB and lightdm. If you use the internal panel you can kinda see some intermediate activity but it happens so fast you can't really see what is happening.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 19 2017, @11:56PM
On a normal system with a normal hard disk, it will take up to 15-30 seconds to boot. 2 or 3 minutes off a USB2 hard disk (mostly loading the initrd and going through module probes)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 19 2017, @11:58PM
Debian with "old" scripts boots rather fast too. The secret? It's parallel booting. And the order is selected when you change something, so reboots will use the same order until you touch something again. But bah, using old tech to figure the order, makefile deps... so it has to be baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
Best change was HDD to SDD. That really speeds up things.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Friday January 20 2017, @12:20AM
Suspend-to-disk. Use it.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 20 2017, @07:47AM
The central reason systemd proponents give for adopting it seems to be boot time
No, the central reason systemd proponents give is that it makes the maintainer's job a lot easier.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 20 2017, @03:44PM
Another thing that can happen: If there's a component not connected that systemd is expecting, it hangs until it finds that component again. For instance, unplugging a PS/2 mouse because I was replacing it with a USB mouse rendered a systemd-based box I was running unbootable.
I know! We can put Kay Sievers [lkml.org] in charge instead, and it will be much much better.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.