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Russia is inching towards utopian equality by considering a law that would decriminalize domestic violence:
The amendment would make "moderate" violence within families an administrative rather than criminal offence, punishable by a fine rather than a jail sentence. [...] The law was drafted by Yelena Mizulina, an ultra-conservative MP who was also behind the controversial Russian law banning "gay propaganda". She told parliament that "in Russian traditional families, the relationship between parents and their children is built on authority and power". She said it was ridiculous that people could be branded criminals "for a slap".
The Duma, the lower house of the Russian parliament, is due to hear the bill in a second reading next week, after passing it on the first reading by 386 votes to one. It needs to pass three readings in the Duma before it is moved to parliament's upper house, and then requires the signature of the president, Vladimir Putin.
[...] The amendment would decriminalise any violence that does not cause serious medical harm, which is defined as requiring hospital treatment. Beatings that leave bruises, scratches or bleeding but do not leave lasting negative health effects such as broken bones or concussion will no longer be criminal. If there is a second beating within a year, however, the case can be made a criminal one.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday January 23 2017, @08:22PM
However they also require physical correction at times before they develop enough to use reason with. If this means parents in Russia no longer have to worry about losing their children because they spank, that might be a good thing; but I'll confess I'm a bit confused. I wasn't aware that worry had made it to Russia to begin with!
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Monday January 23 2017, @08:31PM
> [Children] they also require physical correction at times before they develop enough to use reason with.
And after.
Been around teens recently? I have. One of my nephews listens a lot better now, since he went over the limit and got a swifter response than the usual cellphone withholding.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Entropy on Monday January 23 2017, @08:53PM
In most(not all) places you're allowed to spank your children. Domestic violence laws are more about forcing someone to bring criminal charges when they don't want to. It's illegal (generally speaking) to punch someone in the face....If you want it to be. If you don't(such as a boxing match, or willing participants on a fight) then it's legal.
In the domestic violence world the woman slaps the guy and she goes to jail automatically, then the guy touches the cops for dragging his woman off to jail and he goes to jail for a long time. Then their kids go into foster care because the parents allowed them to witness all that nonsense.
In a world without stupid domestic violence laws? Husband: Yeah I'm ok, no I'm not interested in sending her to jail. Cops: Ok we're out of here.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 23 2017, @09:02PM
You're an idiot then. Domestic violence laws exist because it's not the same thing as regular assaults. These are people who are by definition living together and where there's a huge set of consequences that come from choosing to press charges if they don't stick. You're then left living with somebody that's violent and probably pissed off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 24 2017, @07:46AM
The huge set of consequences are called life. You talk as if bringing criminal law system into picture is somehow not going to have any set of consequences. It is the opposite - it brings huge consequences for both parties instead of one. That's it.
See, this is the problem when you want to save a relationship and break it at the same time. You want abusive relationships to go away but you don't want to have any consequences for being in it. And let's be clear - domestic violence has been painted by a feminist dogma so hard it has become impossible to talk about the fact that most DV is committed by women and it is normalized. The whole discourse has become one where we don't want to look at abusive relationship as bad, but as some sort of perverted male fantasy that needs to be fixed by invoking criminal justice system.
(Score: 1) by Bruke on Tuesday January 24 2017, @08:38AM
I'm aware that domestic violence can come from either gender but your statement is the first time I've heard it said that "...most DV is committed by women..."
Can you provide a citation to back that up? I'd find it to be interesting reading if it's from a legitimate source.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday January 23 2017, @10:00PM
However they also require physical correction at times before they develop enough to use reason with.
While I'll agree with you that young children require "physical correction" in some form, that's a pretty broad term. Yes, you may need to pull Timmy's hand away from the thing he's not supposed to touch. Yes, you may need to literally move Timmy around when he doesn't do what is asked. If Timmy still persists, you may physically need to remove him from the bad behavior/situation.
But I'm not going to agree that all young children "require" physical correction in the sense of needing to be HIT. I think that's one popular and traditional method of disciplining, and I'm not going to judge a parent for a reasoned spank or a slight thwack on the wrist. But not all kids "require" it, and there are other effective methods.
It's tough to sort out evidence from studies, since there's a lot of correlation/causation issues here. But we do know with reasonable certainty from studies that a few things are true: (1) physical violence to children that goes beyond a little spanking or whatever is likely cause more problems than it solves, leading to increased aggressiveness in kids' behavior, etc., (2) parents who use physical violence for discipline are more likely to escalate to more violent behavior against kids than parents who don't use such disciplinary tactics, and (3) many parents resort to things like hitting (and yelling, etc.) because they themselves are out of control and frustrated with a child's behavior at that time, so they seek a way to both discipline AND express their frustration.
Even Putin himself is quoted in TFA:
Putin, when questioned in December, said it was better not to use violence at all, noting that “there’s too little distance between a spanking and a beating”.
I can honestly say I've only twice EVER raised my voice in anger/frustration as a parent. However, I have strategically raised my voice on occasion when necessary to warn of actual danger or otherwise when the situation warranted it. Even with a 2-year-old kid or whatever, you can be amazed at what an unexpectedly gruff sound from a parent can do. I contrast that with the same kid's reaction to a mother when she'd get frustrated or raise her voice a bit -- the kid laughed. Why? Because the kid knew he was "getting to her," as he did frequently. I did the same to my mother, who had a habit of getting "worked up" and screaming too often. Kids figure out how to "push buttons," and if you don't have any non-violent options to escalate to, then violence can seem the only option.
But again, I'm not claiming this is the ONLY effective method, and I don't want to rule out any mild spanking or whatever -- as long as it is done calmly, rationally, and for a deliberate disciplinary reason (rather than out of frustration or lack of trying other options).
If this means parents in Russia no longer have to worry about losing their children because they spank, that might be a good thing
That doesn't seem to be what this law is about. From TFA:
The amendment would decriminalise any violence that does not cause serious medical harm, which is defined as requiring hospital treatment. Beatings that leave bruises, scratches or bleeding but do not leave lasting negative health effects such as broken bones or concussion will no longer be criminal. If there is a second beating within a year, however, the case can be made a criminal one.
My grandfather was whipped by his father. Yes, with an actual whip. That's apparently how they did it "in the old country." According to this law, I guess that would apparently be legal, as long as it doesn't happen more than once per year.
And that seems an odd legal restriction. It's okay to beat someone once per year, but if it happens again, it can be criminal?
My grandfather told my father about this and explained how horrible it was and what it did to him, and my grandfather pledged never to do anything so callous to his kids. He was one of the lucky ones -- since abused kids frequently become abusive adults. As in many situations, family violence -- even mild stuff -- often begets more violence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 24 2017, @09:07AM
I'm not going to judge a parent for a reasoned spank or a slight thwack on the wrist.
I am. Because I've seen the results. It was very clear, that one slap on the wrist taught the kid one thing: To hit people.
Remember the old saying, "do as I say, not as I do"? Well, when it comes to kids, you can forget about that. They learn by copying. Show them that hitting people is acceptable, and they will hit people.