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posted by takyon on Saturday January 28 2017, @09:22PM   Printer-friendly

President Trump's executive order banning people from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. also applies to green card holders from those countries, the Department of Homeland Security said Saturday. "It will bar green card holders," acting DHS spokeswoman Gillian Christensen told Reuters.

Green cards serve as proof of an individual's permanent legal residence in the U.S. A senior administration official clarified on Saturday afternoon that green card holders from the seven countries affected in the order who are currently outside the U.S. will need a case-by-case waiver to return to the U.S. Green card holders in the U.S. will have to meet with a consular officer before departing the country, the official said.

Source: The Hill

At least one case quickly prompted a legal challenge as lawyers representing two Iraqi refugees held at Kennedy International Airport in New York filed a motion early Saturday seeking to have their clients released. They also filed a motion for class certification, in an effort to represent all refugees and other immigrants who they said were being unlawfully detained at ports of entry. Shortly after noon on Saturday, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, an interpreter who worked on behalf of the United States government in Iraq, was released. After nearly 19 hours of detention, Mr. Darweesh began to cry as he spoke to reporters, putting his hands behind his back and miming handcuffs.

[...] Inside the airport, one of the lawyers, Mark Doss, a supervising attorney at the International Refugee Assistance Project, asked a border agent, "Who is the person we need to talk to?"

"Call Mr. Trump," said the agent, who declined to identify himself.

[...] An official message to all American diplomatic posts around the world provided instructions about how to treat people from the countries affected: "Effective immediately, halt interviewing and cease issuance and printing" of visas to the United States. Confusion turned to panic at airports around the world, as travelers found themselves unable to board flights bound for the United States. In Dubai and Istanbul, airport and immigration officials turned passengers away at boarding gates and, in at least one case, ejected a family from a flight they had boarded.

[...] Iranian green card holders who live in the United States were blindsided by the decree while on vacation in Iran, finding themselves in a legal limbo and unsure whether they would be able to return to America. "How do I get back home now?" said Daria Zeynalia, a green card holder who was visiting family in Iran. He had rented a house and leased a car, and would be eligible for citizenship in November. "What about my job? If I can't go back soon, I'll lose everything."

Source: The New York Times


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:39PM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:39PM (#459958)

    I'm sorry - when did discrimination based on religion become legal? Doesn't this merit a quick trip to the Supreme Court for a ruling?

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @12:53AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @12:53AM (#459997)

    It depends. Will the SCOTUS buy the fig-leaf that its about "terrorism-plagued countries?" Or will 45's multiple statements that it is about religion, including one just Friday when he said Christians will get a fastlane be enough to stop people from pretending?

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:37AM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:37AM (#460022) Journal

    Once again - Islam is not a "religion" per se. Islam is a political, social, economic, judicial, AND religious system. Islam doesn't recognize presidents, kings, emperors, prime ministers, etc. Islam is awaiting the return of the Caliph. The Caliph will impose Sharia law on the world.

    Islam is not a religion, it does not fit into your concept of religion.

    How many religions preach jihad, and death to the infidels?

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:43AM

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:43AM (#460026) Journal

      Christianity, until a 300-year overdose on Enlightenment thinking left Yahweh dead in the philosophical equivalent of a pay toilet :D

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:02AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:02AM (#460040) Journal

        I notice that while you always enjoy dumping on Christianity, you have failed to refute my statement above. In fact, you have failed to even address the statement.

        ISLAM IS AS POLITICAL A MOVEMENT AS IT IS RELIGIOUS!! Every time a sizeable population of Muslims settles in an area, they demand to impose Sharia law in that area. They fully intend to undermine the legal system of any and all regions they settle in. It's almost like they have a mission statement to subvert the law in any land they live in.

        ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION!! Stop drinking the manure tea.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:34AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:34AM (#460106) Journal

          You're naive as hell if you think Christianity wasn't--and in some cases today, like the fucking Dominionist coup d'etat that just happened in the US!--isn't a political movement. I grant Islam is more tightly coupled to politics than Christianity, but really...go back a few centuries and there's almost no difference. Islam hasn't had an Enlightenment, or at least not one that stuck.

          Now, if we're talking about the founders of the religion, there you have a point: Jesus was anti-worldly, or at least believed that the question was going to be moot Real Soon Now (oops...!) while Muhammed was all about conquest.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:12AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:12AM (#460122) Journal

            Islam hasn't had an Enlightenment,

            There you have it. Islam is one giant pig-fuck. Dirty little animals, filled with superstition, wallowing in filth, trying to make sense of a world that makes no sense - just like the piggy-Europeans who suffered through the "Great Plague". Yeah, remember those Europeans, shitting in their city streets, sleeping with rats, dropping dead by the thousands because they believed the Church would save them? To ignorant to wash their dirty asses, to build proper latrines, to stupid to keep the rats out of their food?

            And, Islam will never have an enlightenment, no renaissance. Islam rejected ALL OF THE PHILOSOPHERS. Islam has no use for philosophy, of any flavor. Islam actively defends itself from outside influences. Look up Chop-Chop square - youtube is a good-enough resource. Anyone who "offends" Islam in any way, is subject to being beheaded on Chop-Chop.

            Do you see that kind of thing in Rome? In any European or American city?

            Korea is commonly accepted as the worst of despotic regimes, but I've never heard of anything like Chop-Chop square in Korea.

            It says a hell of a lot about Islam, when they are worse than Little Kim with respect to human rights. Blatant, ongoing contempt for human rights - worse than the Bush regime, by orders of magnitude.

            • (Score: 2) by melikamp on Sunday January 29 2017, @06:50AM

              by melikamp (1886) on Sunday January 29 2017, @06:50AM (#460162) Journal
              Don't bust a nut already. You got a few things wrong, probably from over-excitement.

              Dirty little animals

              That's all of us.

              trying to make sense of a world that makes no sense

              Actually, and in line with everything else you are saying, they are trying NOT to make sense out of the world that does make a lot of sense (to anyone familiar with basic science).

              but I've never heard of anything like Chop-Chop square in Korea

              That's because you (or anyone else on this side of the border) have never heard of ANYTHING in north Korea. Nothing certain, at any rate, except for the names & mugshots of beloved leaders. Having grown up in USSR, I think I have a pretty good guess about what's going on there, and let me tell you, there's a lot of chop-chop, and on a whole another level too, like town- or even district-level. Because that's what ALWAYS happens without accountability, and when the information channel is fully controlled by the men in military uniform.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday January 29 2017, @10:20AM

              by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday January 29 2017, @10:20AM (#460198) Journal

              Runaway, you are stupid. You keep saying things that are just not true. I am starting to think you may be an alias for Kellyanne Conway!

              Islam rejected ALL OF THE PHILOSOPHERS. Islam has no use for philosophy, of any flavor

              Wrong! Completely wrong! Not right! False! And you are too stupid to even suspect how wrong you might be. Ok, look up some names.

              al-Kindi
              al-Ghazali
              ibn Sina
              ibn Rushd
              Maimonides

              You may not know it, but Islam did have an enlightenment. It just happened during Europe's Dark Ages (which, I take it Arkansas is still in?), and was in fact responsible for Europe's Renaissance in several ways. One of these was the re-introduction of the works of Aristotle, via Arabic translations through Moorish Spain, which were the source for St. Thomas Aquinas, whom the Church refers to as Doctor Angelicus, and whose work elevated Aristotle to the title of "The Philosopher". Without Ibn Rushd (Arabic: ابن رشد‎‎; 14 April 1126 – 10 December 1198), full name (Arabic: أبو الوليد محمد ابن احمد ابن رشد‎, translit. ʾAbū l-Walīd Muḥammad Ibn ʾAḥmad Ibn Rushd‎), often Latinized as Averroes, Christian philosophy as it is today quite simply would not exist. And therefore, no Renaissance, no Reformation, no Enlightenment, and obviously, no Runaway.

              Once again, your ignorance of history ill serves you! Perhaps it might interest you to know that Maimonides was a Jewish philosopher who lived his entire life under Muslim rule. His nickname is Rambam. During the Middle Ages, a jew was much better off under Muslim rule than under Christian rule, where things like pogroms, blood libel, and proto-naziism were common.

              No, none of this stuff that scares both you and Trump is due to Islam, it is due to the fact (real fact, not alternative!) that both you and Trump do not know what the hell is going on. I suggest you take a look at the end of WWI, the partition of the former Empire, the rise of the House of Saud and Arab nationalism, and then it will be clear to you that all this is nothing with any long historical roots of Islam, it is the natural consequence of European (Christian!) Imperialism. Yes, that is why they hate you. You claim to have been a sailor in the US Navy. I would have thought that this would be rather clear to you. But then, if you were a sailor, well, that does explain a lot.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @10:48AM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @10:48AM (#460203) Journal

                Aristarchus, our very own pedarast!! Tell us, just how old were you when you realized you preferred boys over girls?

                You do realize that you're a fucking GENIUS, don't you? Europe's dark ages - roughly between the years 500 and 1000. Islam - sometime after the year 600. So - Islam had an enlightenment during Europe's dark ages? Bull-fucking-SHIT. During the second half of Europe's dark ages, Islam was busy killing off all the animists, the Jews, Christians, and other religions throughout Arabia and north Africa. Golden age? WTF are you even talkiing about?

                Perhaps you are confusing some rather well known facts about Arabs and Arabia in general with Islam? Arabs are credited with PRESERVING much of the world's historical and scientific knowledge during Europe's dark ages. That is, ARABS, not MUSLIMS. The two words are not synonymous. Grab yourself a dictionary, if you don't believe me.

                Preach to me some more about how stupid I am. I really don't know how high your education went - but my education was more advanced than yours before I reached Senior High School.

                Muslim enlightenment. Christ on a crutch, man, who are you buying your drugs from? If Islam is so enlightened, then WTF do wahabbists come from?

                Do you want to try again? Would you like to point to another period in time when Islam became "enlightened"? Maybe you'll go back further in history? Maybe about 10,000 B.C?

                • (Score: 2, Funny) by aristarchus on Sunday January 29 2017, @11:19AM

                  by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday January 29 2017, @11:19AM (#460210) Journal

                  Preach to me some more about how stupid I am. I really don't know how high your education went - but my education was more advanced than yours before I reached Senior High School.

                  Not necessary, old man, you are doing quite well on your own without any help from me, or any other Soylentil. So you are saying your education was HUGE? Was it the best education ever? Was every other education a looser compared to yours? Did you have a larger crowd for your education than other posters? Do you not see what has happened to you? You have become a Donald clone! A New York Flim-Flam Real Estate Developer with an inferiority complex! Nice to see you did Google some dates, though. That's a start. But please, do try not to be so stupid in the future, OK?

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @11:41AM

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @11:41AM (#460215) Journal

                    No, my education wasn't truly special - yours was. Special, as in "special needs alternative education".

                    Tell us more about Islam and "enlightenment". Some of us may enjoy the laugh. I actually used the search term, "Islam enlightenment". Don't blame me if you don't like the sources:

                    http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/296509-islam-never-went-through-the-enlightenment/ [unexplained-mysteries.com]

                    http://books.wwnorton.com/books/detail.aspx?ID=4294992664 [wwnorton.com] (that one sort of supports your claim that Islam has had an enlightenment - in the 19th century, not during the dark ages, you nitwit)

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age [wikipedia.org] (maybe you meant golden age, rather than enlightenment? I note that this article attempts to credit Islam with maths that predate Islam.)

                    Regardless how many of the claims for Islam's Golden Age are true or exaggerated - Islam has NOT outgrown the concept of spreading it's influence at the point of a sword. Islam insists, to this day, that ONLY an adult Muslim male's word has any value at court. Adult female Muslim's word is only worth 1/2 of a man's word. All the rest of us? We have no value, therefore our word has no value.

                    Shall we move along? Do you have any more fairy tale claims to make for Islam? Or, shall we discuss the sexual proclivities of certain Greeks?

                    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:12PM

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:12PM (#460300) Journal

                      Wow, you're *mad.* He got you with facts. Listen, Runaway, just because an Enlightenment doesn't stick, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Thanks to that very same al-Ghazali, though, mysticism and muddy-headed thinking prevailed, and Islam degenerated back into its Iron Age roots rather quickly.

                      Unfortunately, al-Ghazali was responsible for leading Islam off the path of the old Greek philosophers with the "Incoherence of the Philosophers," whereas Christianity mostly stuck to them, and his idea of occasionalism (basically, everything is Allah's will, and his immediate, direct will at that). Averroes, IIRC, wrote a rebuttal in the next century but by then it was far too late. This was the death of epistemology in the mass of Islam.

                      That said...if the presence of extremists and violent members of a religion means any Enlightenment it's had is null and void, you just tarred Christianity with that same brush. You don't seem to understand something here: we, in the US, have just had the Christian equivalent of the Wahhabbis seize power. They didn't do it violently (directly...) but that's because their fellow travelers have spent the last 50 years flying under the radar slowly encroaching on this country's government. Forget Trump; Trump is a shiny, loud, pseudo-populist distraction. Look at Pence, look at DeVos, look at all the Birchers and Dominionists in the new cabinet.

                      If there ever were a case of the pot calling the kettle black...

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:06PM

                        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:06PM (#460352) Journal

                        "Islam degenerated"

                        Islam never left the Iron Age, despite the words of a couple sweet-talking devils.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:46PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:46PM (#460375)

                          despite the words of a couple sweet-talking devils.

                          Now the truth can be told. We here at the Demonic Division of SJW, World Domination Squad, can now reveal to the world that Runaway1956 has finally sold his soul. He hates irrationally, piles insults on those who would help him, and is possessed of logorhea of the internets! Just another success story for our efforts here at Demonic SJWs! Keep up the good work, daemons!

                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:10PM

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:10PM (#460396) Journal

                          Did you fucking read one single thing I wrote? Jesus. You're deranged.

                          --
                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:22AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:22AM (#460128)

          Christianity is not exempt from this behavior. There's a mormon compound outside salt lake city that imposes its own laws. There a few states that have laws on the books that state atheists aren't allowed to run for public office.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:40AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:40AM (#460137) Journal

            Oh-kay - so when was the last time that any of these Christians dragged an atheist out onto the town square for a public beheading?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:48AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:48AM (#460028)

      It is religion enough to garner protection from the freedom from discrimination based on religious beliefs.

      Now, if the Supreme Court to wants to rule Islam not exempt from discrimination, that is their purview. In so far as existing case law is concerned, Islam is just as protected from religious discrimination as is Catholicism (a religion with a long history of violence and atrocities), Lutheranism (radicals that they were 200 years ago), Hinduism (Ghandi was not exactly politically neutral, was he?), and Presbyterianism (party animals to the core, especially their elders' councils.)

       

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      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:06AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:06AM (#460041) Journal

        "It is religion enough to garner protection from the freedom from discrimination based on religious beliefs."

        Well, it was, at least.

        There is little to argue in the rest of your post. I will add that the religions you named were radical at their inception, and eventually burnt themselves out. Islam, on the other hand, started out violent, and has remained violent. It varies a little over time - this century it mellows a little, and then next century, it gets more radical. But, Islam has never been a "religion of peace".

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:57AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:57AM (#460078)

          Yeah. Christians are so mellow that they had to hire muslims to guard Christendom's holiest place [cnn.com] - where Jesus died and was resurrected - the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
          The muslims aren't there to guard it from outsiders. They are there to keep the peace between Christians who literally can't stop fighting over the church. [catholiceducation.org] Not theological debates, actual physical brawls. [youtube.com] Just steps away from Jesus's actual tomb.

          So don't give me this shit about how peaceful christians are when its muslims who have to keep them in line.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:15AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:15AM (#460090) Journal

            Did I claim that Christians are peaceful? No - I merely stated that they have burnt out. Christians no longer raise armies to go crusading around the world in the name of Jesus. When was the last crusade? The last crusade worthy of the name would have to be when the Catholics destroyed the Aztec empire. Those good Spanish Christians were offended beyond description at the idea of sacrificing lovely young virgins to some heathen Sun God. I don't think the destruction of the Incan empire counts as a crusade - that was all about money. But, you could make an argument that it does count, if you like.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:21AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:21AM (#460095)

              Did I claim that Christians are peaceful? No - I merely stated that they have burnt out.

              Oh so now we are down to hair splitting.
              When you said "islam is not a religion of peace" you meant "christianity and islam are not religions of peace."

              Got it.

              Christians no longer raise armies to go crusading around the world in the name of Jesus.

              And what muslims have gone around the world with armies?
              And don't even try to pretend ISIS counts, their military operations are all about taking land from their neighbors and their host states.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:54AM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:54AM (#460113) Journal

                ISIS is all about Islam. ISIS is the distillation of Islam. ISIS is that portion of Islam which has tired of waiting for the Caliph to return, so they are actively setting things up for the Caliph. And, if the Caliph doesn't return to claim the throne they've set up for him, they'll just name a new Caliph.

                There is a Muslim army bivouaced in Europe right now. An entire division laid seige to that fancy tunnel under the English Channel. Multiple divisions are loitering in a little known suburb in Belgium.

                http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brussels-attacks-a-look-at-molenbeek-the-small-belgian-suburb-home-to-some-of-the-world-s-most-a6946321.html [independent.co.uk]

                • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:08AM

                  by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:08AM (#460120)

                  ISIS is the distillation of Islam the way the Inquisitors were the distillation of the Catholic church - a radical minority with a well deserved reputation for hypocrisy of the highest order.

                  --
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                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:18AM

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:18AM (#460125) Journal

                    I think you're kinda helping me to make my point. The inquisitors were finally put down, of course. Islam accepts their not-so-very-small minority. Despite our wishes, ISIS enjoys both active and tacit support from the rest of Islam. They enjoy more Muslim support than they suffer Muslim condemnation. Money and recruits continue to filter in to ISIS. If and when the money and recruits disappear, then ISIS will be finished.

                    And, what will replace ISIS? We probably won't like that a lot more than we like ISIS.

                    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:26AM

                      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:26AM (#460131)

                      Yeah, Amin my office mate is all about supporting ISIS. Every day on the way home to pick his kid up from school, he stops off at the local ISIS camp to offer his support, NOT.

                      Islam is a tremendously large religion, 23% of the world population (as compared to Christianity's collective 31%). Worldwide, not even 1% of muslims are militant or supportive of militant muslims. Now, 1% of 1.6 billion is still 16 million, or >10x the size of the U.S. Armed forces, but you don't go around discriminating against 1.6 billion people for what a couple of million people do "in their name."

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                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:30AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:30AM (#460134)

                        Yeah, Amin my office mate is all about supporting ISIS. Every day on the way home to pick his kid up from school, he stops off at the local ISIS camp to offer his support, NOT.

                        That's because he's not a real muslim.
                        Just ask derpaway. If you aren't wild-eyed ISIS you aren't a legit muslim. You don't really know your own religion. But derpdick does!
                        Either that or you are pretending, just waiting for the right chance to go all eid-al-fitr on some infidel's ass.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @06:31AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @06:31AM (#460159)

                        Guy works at my office left a highly paid job to spend three years at mecca for some religious duty.
                        He kept on going about how halal meat is cleaner, women should cover themselves, etc etc. People at the office just smiled and nodded and ignored him.
                        Now we have ten more like him. It was disturbing seeing a young women at work being told in the tea room that she should cover up and get married

                    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:47AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:47AM (#460140)

                      Despite our wishes, ISIS enjoys both active and tacit support from the rest of Islam.

                      You could not be further from the truth: [pewresearch.org]

                      % of population with favorable / unfavorable view of ISIS

                      Lebanon:       0% / 100%
                      Israel:        1% / 97%
                      Jordan:        3% / 94%
                      Palestine:     6% / 84%
                      Indonesia:     4% / 79%
                      Turkey:        8% / 73%
                      Nigeria:      14% / 66%
                      Burkina Faso:  8% / 64%
                      Malaysia:     11% / 64%
                      Senegal:      11% / 60%
                      Pakisatn:      9% / 28%

                      American christians are more supportive of terrorism [gallup.com] than the 3.2 million american muslims:

                      Percent who say it is never justified for an individual or small group to kill civilians.

                      Muslims:        89%
                      Protestant:     71%
                      Catholic:       71%
                      Jewish:         75%
                      Mormon:         79%
                      non-religious:  76%

                      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:35AM

                        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:35AM (#460167) Journal

                        ROFLMAO @ Lebanon 0%/100% With such a preposterous leadin, the other numbers aren't even worthy of discussion. Obviously, no one went to the trouble of polling any members of Hezbollah. I'll bet I could get the same results in Lebanon, if I stayed in Beirut, and polled people arriving and departing the airport. However, if I were to include airport workers in the poll, the results would shift a little bit.

                        If you went out into the countryside, and found a nice little Hezbollah stronghold, you could probably reverse those numbers.

                        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:03AM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:03AM (#460185)

                          ROFLMAO @ Lebanon 0%/100% With such a preposterous leadin,

                          Again, Runaway? Really, again? You obviously know nothing about Lebanon if you are surprised by the figures. Hezbollah? The Druze? Do you possibly not even know that major factions in Lebanon are Christian? And that the Muslims are predominately Shia? Oh, you, like the President of Small Hands and Little Knowledge, do not understand the difference between Shia and Sunni? Not to mention the Sufis. So seriously, Runaway, you are only embarrassing yourself, and your nation, by so openly displaying your ignorance without the slightest indication that you are even the slightest bit aware of how profound your ignorance is.

                          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @10:58AM

                            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @10:58AM (#460206) Journal

                            Unlike you, I have actually been to Lebanon. Seriously, Aristarchus, you're only making my case. With all those different factions, you're not going to find 100% agreement on any honestly conducted poll in Lebanon. You're far more likely to get a poll with a result of 100% right here in the US. Good luck with that.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @11:55AM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @11:55AM (#460216)

                          > Hezbollah

                          Wait. Let me get this straight. You think Hezbollah would support ISIS?
                          Hezbollah is shia. ISIS doesn't even think shia are real muslims. They are the first people ISIS kills.

                          Derpdick you don't even know what you don't know.
                          You parade your ignorance like it is genius

                          You are truly a modern man. Alt-facts for an alt-idiot.

                      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:51PM

                        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:51PM (#460230)

                        Polls are skewed by what the polled believe the poller should hear.

                        --
                        🌻🌻 [google.com]
                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:40PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:40PM (#460242)

                          Oh please. If you've got a better source, then post it.
                          And no, pulling shit out of your ass is not a better source.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @08:53AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @08:53AM (#460179)

                      I think you're kinda helping me to make my point. The inquisitors were finally put down, of course.

                      No, he is not. My God (or "Their God", it's all the same god), you are a complete and total ignoramous! Must be an American! Quick, what is the capital of Romania? OK, yep, American! You know nothing about history, you know nothing about Islam, you know nothing about religion, and you know nothing about politics. I expect your math abilities are on par.

                      So tell us, Runaway, who "put down" the Inquisitors? Shirley you know that there is an Office of the Inquisition in the Vatican right up to the present day? Oh, you didn't? OK, stick with me. Did you know that the Catholic Church has meddled in American politics very recently? Just ask yourself, how many Supreme Court Justices are Catholic? What is the percentage of the American population that is Catholic? Did you know that Newt Gingrinch converted to Catholocism? Did you ever wonder why? Do you know that Mussolini was a Catholic, before he was a communist and while he was a Fascist? Did you know that Franco, Fascist Dictator of Spain, was a Catholic with the full support of the Church? And did you know (oh, why do I even keep on asking) that along with the Mormons, the Catholic church was a major backer of Prop. 8 in California (and that Mozilla guy). And of course, the recent march to enslave women was a propaganda event largely paid for by the Catholic Church.

                      Now, I would just want to parallel your insane paranoid coward's rant: Christianity is not just a religion! It is a political, cultural, and ideological movement that has its own hierarchy, its own law (Canon Law, look it up!), and does not recognize the rights of nations or individuals (especially women) to rule themselves! Christianity is completely opposed to the principle of liberal democracy, and the freedoms of the citizen and the rights of man! So, I ask again, who took out the Spanish Inquisition? Hmmm?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:14AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:14AM (#460124)

                  > There is a Muslim army bivouaced in Europe right now.

                  Words have meanings. You really need a dictionary.

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:35AM

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:35AM (#460135) Journal

                    And a picture is worth a thousand words. Find those images of "refugees" in Europe. Mostly military aged males, with some camp followers. It's difficult to see any real differences between those "refugee" camps, and a poorly equipped army. Yes, there HAVE BEEN armies that were very poorly equipped. For reference, use some of the Crusaders. A few well-armed royalty and clergy, leading a rabble of farmboys who might manage to steal a serviceable weapon on the march to the Holy Lands.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:28AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:28AM (#460150)

                      In your case, a picture is worth a thousand lies.

                      Find those images of "refugees" in Europe. Mostly military aged males,

                      "Military aged" ... fuck off dickless.
                      The entire population of Syria skews young - the median age is 23.8 years. [bymap.org] Of course the refugees are going to have similar demographics.

                      As for being primarily men, bullshit.
                      The reason that one picture you saw in your fetid echo chamber of hate was mostly men is because all the women and children were on the next train. [snopes.com]

                      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:24AM

                        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:24AM (#460165) Journal

                        Yeah, and you're not a gullible fool, either. Men always ride one train, and put the women and children on another. That's how civilized people treat women and children. I've stated several times that Snopes isn't a reliable "fact checker". They are liberal, and they'll swear to whichever liberal lie they choose to.

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:06AM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:06AM (#460118)

              They don't wear pointy white hoods anymore, but those guys very often justified their actions in the name of Christian morals. The hoods are gone, but the sentiment remains in the hearts and minds of a significant slice of rural America.

              --
              🌻🌻 [google.com]
              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:27AM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:27AM (#460132) Journal

                The pointy hoods. Need I remind you that their membership numbers are steadily decreasing? I was a bystander when the KKK put on a recruiting drive in Arkansas and the rest of the South. I'm pleased to inform you that the rednecks and small town yokels whom you would most expect to join a white supremacy movement simply rejected all the stupid shit that the KKK offered them.

                That "significant slice" is far less significant than you seem to think. I think it is near-accurate to say that that the attitude was, "Yeah, maybe Negroes suck, but these supremacist assholes suck worse!" It might be a little more accurate to describe it as, "Hey, I have some black friends who are decent people - and these out-of-towners want to fuck with my friends?"

                I'll grant that the south isn't just one big happy family, yet, and there are still racial tensions, but it is no longer fertile ground for white supremacists and their stupidity.

                • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:02AM

                  by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:02AM (#460143)

                  I lived in Gainesville, Florida for about 8 years - the official KKK membership there has plummeted, but the sentiments against blacks (the town is still highly segregated to this day), Asians (I personally know of racially targeted vandalism - red paint splattered on Asian homes in the night along with messages like "gooks get out," in 2007), Muslims (same freak priest who threatened to burn Qurans on the anniversaries of 9/11 sent 7 year olds to school with T-shirts reading "Islam is of the Devil"), and any other minority group you can name are still alive and well in town and especially the rural county outside the University. After one elementary school there had developed a reputation as a "good place for children with disabilities," the school board actively dismantled the programs - the politicians in town, including head of the school board, etc. are the children of the open KKK members who were in politics in the 1920s. They know better than to do or say things that will get them slapped down by the law, so they skirt as close to the edge as they can instead. Some call themselves the "silent majority" but while they are neither, they do exist and they do still negatively impact many people's lives.

                  --
                  🌻🌻 [google.com]
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:21AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:21AM (#460147)

                    So what if the KKK membership has dropped over the last 50 years anyway? 50 years is nothing.
                    They were founded on christmas eve. [history.com]
                    They call their chapters churches. [splcenter.org]
                    They call themselves a christian organization. [christianpost.com]
                    They burn crosses.
                    And their members were integrated into society. Mayors, bankers, police, etc.
                    They weren't the fringe. They were the core of "good christian" society.

                    Derpdick is just in denial because he's just one door down from the christian taliban himself.

                    • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:54PM

                      by jmorris (4844) on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:54PM (#460318)

                      They are also the terror wing of the Democratic Party. The South is no longer a one party Democrat controlled area, so no more unofficial political cover for Democratic Party terrorists, so no more KKK. Remember the rule, terrorism ALWAYS has a State sponsor either directly supporting it or turning a blind eye or it quickly dies out. These days they are about as dangerous as Code Pink, both are more interested in publicity stunts to raise brand awareness than accomplishing anything productive.

                      There is also the detail that the Democratic Party switched its racist tactics, believing all that "demographic destiny, ascendant black/brown coalition, etc." nonsense and switched out their target group from black to white, so they now run air cover for BLM, the Panthers, La Raza, etc. The few KKK members left are confused, rather far to the left of the bell curve misfits and probably have more FBI in their ranks than actual believing members.

                      The 1488 Stormfags are another kettle of fish entirely though. Some of them are very misguided by not nearly as dumb, making them worthy of keeping an eye on. They have some Truth in their propaganda, just enough to pull in a few people who aren't really paying attention, they just mash it all up and mix in some really crazy Nazi shit until you can't sort it out. Thankfully they aren't growing a lot, probably because even though the government schools no longer teach about Nazis, most folks still know they came to a really bad end and are universally reviled. Now good luck getting someone under thirty to know WHY Nazis are bad or anyone to know they were forked off the Socialist tree. Even on the Alt-Right they are seen as, at best, useful shock troops for any future escalation by the left.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:02AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @04:02AM (#460116)

          POTUS does not make laws, nor interpret them. All that is within POTUS' purview is the manner of enforcement of the laws, as written by the Congress and interpreted by the Supreme Court.

          Some of Trump's executive orders are treading on legislation and re-interpretation, it may take some time to reign that in, but it should be happening in due time.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:54AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:54AM (#460031)

      Islam is awaiting the return of the Caliph. The Caliph will impose Sharia law on the world.

      Still fucking quivering in your boots, eh, Runaway? I recommend you run away and hide, perhaps to some backwater where the Caliphate will never find you. But mostly, stop posting on the internets! You are only painting a target on your backside, for when the Muslins and the Linsey-Woolseys come.

      • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:09AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:09AM (#460045) Journal

        Please - post something of substance. There is no possible answer to your drivel. BTW - do you still beat your wife, or has she kicked your ass into submission?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:54AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:54AM (#460076)

          BTW - do you still beat your wife, or has she kicked your ass into submission?

          We like to mix it up [wikipedia.org].

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:53PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:53PM (#460377)

          There is no possible answer to your drivel.

          Lemme guess, but you are still going to try to answer, anyway, Runaway?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:45AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:45AM (#460067)

      > Once again - Islam is not a "religion" per se.

      Once again you are full of shit.
      Have you heard of the holy roman empire?
      You sound exactly like the assholes who couldn't deal with the catholic president.
      Like the pope would be giving orders to washington.

      All major religions are exactly the same way. People pick and choose what suits them in the environment they live in.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:02AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:02AM (#460083) Journal

        Sophistry - yes, I see what you're doing there.

        Yes, of course, I've heard of the Holy Roman Empire. And, if you have any shreds of intellectual honesty, you know that the Empire and the Church are not synonymous. The Holy Roman Empire was almost purely political, but it wore religious clothing to disguise itself in front of the masses. The Church, on the other hand, is a religion, that dabbles in politics, using the threat of eternal damnation to keep the masses in line.

        I realize that the differences may be to subtle for some to understand, but there is a huge difference. One of the giveaways, is the word "empire" in the name of the Holy Roman Empire. The Church, as evil as I believe it to be, never bothered to assume such a name, relying instead on it's religious influence over the various kings and rulers who feared going to hell.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:26AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:26AM (#460099)

          No I don't think you actually see what I did there since you just went Fuill Sophist in response.
          The HRE wasn't really 'religious' because reasons.
          Reasons that don't apply to islam because other reasons.

          Complexity and nuance for christians.
          Ignorant declarations for muslims.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:37AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:37AM (#460108) Journal

            The Empire attempted to usurp the position of the Church. Is that clear enough for you? The Empire was all about politics and power. The Church is all about religion and power. Maybe you should read a few books on metaphysics.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:49AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:49AM (#460111)

              Again it sails right over your head.
              What you think the Ottoman Empire wasn't all about politics and power?

              Metaphysics?
              Dude you don't even know what word means.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:59AM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:59AM (#460115) Journal

                You seem to confuse the Ottoman with Islam. The Ottoman was not the Caliph, and none of the emperors declared himself to be the Caliph. Doing so would probably have ensured a very swift death.

                So, what's next? Are you going to tell us what a great Christian leader Hitler was?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:12AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:12AM (#460187)

                  The Ottoman was not the Caliph,

                  Holy fucking fake news, Batman! Runaway has just given us alternate facts!

                  Just one question, oh Runaway who is so wise in metaphysics, why do the call it "The Ottoman Caliphate", then? We will wait while you google furiously to cover your ass. Extra credit, History for 100! Who ended the Turkish Ottoman Caliphate? (Runaway: not as smart as a 5th grader. Jeff Foxworthy is face-palming as we speak.)
                  --
                  And, BTW, everyone knows that the Ottoman was a sort of footrest that people used to have to use before the Lazy-boy was invented.

    • (Score: 2) by Murdoc on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:21AM

      by Murdoc (2518) on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:21AM (#460096) Homepage
      Islam is a religion. "Islamism [wikipedia.org]" is the political movement aimed at running society according to Islam. These are the guys causing all the problems. Most Muslims I know don't give a crap about that. They just want to live their own lives according to their own beliefs. So Muslims are not the problem, Islamists are. Feel free to debate how many of the former are also the latter. [danielpipes.org]
      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:44AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:44AM (#460110) Journal

        The same reasoning applies to almost any political movement. Only 10-15% or Republicans are really Republicans - the rest are just poor chumps who want to make a living, and get by in the world. Ditto for Democrats, or almost any other group you care to name.

        The problem is that the vast majority of Democrats give their tacit consent to be led by the hard-core party members, just as Republicans, or Muslims. A "this is acceptable" attitude enables the rabid party members to run amok. That was true of Russia's communists, Germany's Nazis, Amercia's democrats and republicans, and Islam in general.

  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:59AM

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday January 29 2017, @02:59AM (#460081) Homepage Journal

    It always was. Discrimination is entirely legal except in very limited circumstances.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:59AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @03:59AM (#460114)

      Since the 1960s, discrimination by race is illegal for almost everything.

      Since the 1760s, discrimination by religion has been illegal for almost everything.

      Sex, age, height, weight - those are less protected, but freedom of religion was a founding principle. The Jap internment camps of WWII wouldn't have flown post civil rights.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 2) by fritsd on Sunday January 29 2017, @12:00PM

    by fritsd (4586) on Sunday January 29 2017, @12:00PM (#460217) Journal

    What president Trump did is NOT discrimination based on religion.
    He banned people from *poor* muslim-majority countries (Yemen, Somalia, etc.) to come to the USA, and from Iraq and Iran (don't know how to call them; they're not as rich as the BRICS for sure).

    But he didn't ban people from: Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar etc.
    So rich Arab muslims are still welcome, despite that most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis, and Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi.

    And he also didn't ban people from Algeria and Malaysia and Indonesia and Egypt, AFAIK. Lots of muslims in those countries.

    This disproves that his action is
    (A) to keep muslims out (Saudi princes still welcome!)
    (B) to keep terrorists out (Saudi princes still welcome!)

    Also, the only people from poor muslim-majority countries that have the money for plane tickets are its affluent people, so we can't even conclude that he wants to keep poor muslims out while embracing rich muslims (plenty of rich "upper crust" people in those banned countries!)

    We must therefore conclude that his action had another reason, which doesn't directly make sense. Maybe it is to do a stress test on the border security system, to see if they obey even nonsensical orders, and weed out the officers who don't obey every wish of their new Leader.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:53PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:53PM (#460231)

      Congratulations, you are making the very arguments that will be put forth in Federal court to try to get the order reinstated. It is now up to the judges to decide. Yes, Trump will be appointing _some_ judges, but that takes time, and if our system is worth anything, cases like this will not be heard by judges appointed by the executive who issues the order (they _should_ recuse themselves).

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by fritsd on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:28PM

        by fritsd (4586) on Sunday January 29 2017, @05:28PM (#460312) Journal

        I think Trump, or rather the people behind his throne who thought this idea up, were already aware of this loophole to claim "our action is not religious discrimination because X,Y and Z".

        I don't know, can they use the following dialogue:

        Judge: "Your action has inconvenienced Americans and Green Card holders, was there an overriding reason to do it nevertheless?"
        Trump: "Yes, we knew it was going to have side-effects but decided to do it anyway because reasons"
        Judge: "What were those reasons?"
        Trump: "National security."
        Judge: "What kind of national security reasons?"
        Trump: "secret reasons :-) end of discussion."

        All of us in democratic countries are so accustomed that governments provide reasons for their actions, or at least a fig-leaf of an excuse.
        Autocrats however only need one reason: "I'm the boss and you're not".

        I still don't understand at all *WHY* the Trump government decided to do this thing.
        I can think of one valid reason, but that's so far into tin-foil hat territory that it's ridiculous.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:18PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday January 29 2017, @07:18PM (#460363)

          Well, from Johnson through Obama, I believe like you do: the President is a figurehead propped up by a political machine to do its bidding and take its flack. However, Trump (and candidate Perot), seem to be different animals - I'm sure the political machinery started lining up behind Trump starting about a year ago, and really kicked into high gear when he pulled ahead in the RNC, but Trump got himself (barely) elected by being off-the-cuff, crude, and generally believable. This first round of executive orders really sounds, mostly, like more of the same - ideals of his age, and he is quite old, predating civil rights for his value formative years.

          I think he wanted to block immigration from all the Muslim countries he could get away with because: he wanted it. He no doubt has consulted with advisers who gave him some kind of a leg to stand on (like W with torture and WMD), but the quality of staff he's presenting to the media is pretty green and frankly lacking - it will be interesting to see if he can manage to maneuver enough effective firepower to his side to actually hold on to this order, or if he just went off half cocked and is going to be embarrassed by reality, again.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 2) by mendax on Monday January 30 2017, @01:51AM

    by mendax (2840) on Monday January 30 2017, @01:51AM (#460466)

    Well, maybe. I suspect it will never make it that far. Discrimination based on religion is well-settled law. The Supreme Court generally doesn't take a case under those circumstances. In any case, I suspect The Donald is going to find himself having to deal with the courts on many occasions. I'm still waiting for the impeachment trial that is bound to happen. Now that's the "court" I want to see him in.

    --
    It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 30 2017, @02:50AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 30 2017, @02:50AM (#460492)

      It appears that Federal courts are going to take this one on, I wasn't sure if they had jurisdiction on executive orders or not - apparently they do. Mr. Trump has managed to break a new record: negative approval poll ratings in only 8 days - some presidents don't go there until into their 2nd term.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by mendax on Monday January 30 2017, @03:23AM

        by mendax (2840) on Monday January 30 2017, @03:23AM (#460500)

        The federal courts have jurisdiction on any actions of the President, or the federal government for that matter.

        As far as the negative approval ratings, he was below 50% before his inauguration. As I said earlier, I'm waiting for the impeachment. If he gets unpopular enough, there will be enough Republicans who will want to get rid of him before the mid-term elections. in 2018, before he drags the party down with him.

        --
        It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.