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posted by FatPhil on Monday February 06 2017, @09:17PM   Printer-friendly
from the is-there-an-all-fake-news-sites-are-liars-paradox dept.

Over the last few months, we've talked about the weird obsession some people upset by the results of the election have had with the concept of "fake news." We warned that focusing on "fake news" as a problem was not just silly and pointless, but that it would quickly morph into calls for censorship. And, even worse, that censorship power would be in the hands of whoever got to define what "fake news" was.

Source: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170201/23481336610/bad-idea-worst-idea-having-ftc-regulate-fake-news.shtml


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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Zz9zZ on Monday February 06 2017, @09:47PM

    by Zz9zZ (1348) on Monday February 06 2017, @09:47PM (#463706)

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    As many articles have pointed out, lies have always been around and people have always wondered "what to do about it??". We already did something about it in a bid to prevent totalitarian bullshit like North Korea and China with their state sanctioned Truths.

    People can lie all they want, and we already have laws against libel.

    TMB you're bias shows... like, a LOT!

    the weird obsession some people upset by the results of the election have had with the concept of "fake news."

    I live in California and the only people I hear raging about "fake news" are conservatives. I work in tech and had some older conservative asshole get in my face and insult me based on my appearance, I had not even said a single word to him. Then he goes into "what will we do about this fake news problem?" and blames me because I know how to use computers... I pointed out that the 1st amendment means there is nothing we can do, and he responded with "that's what YOU think". Conservatives are trying to find excuses to create an authoritarian theocracy and they metaphorically shit on the Constitution because it means they aren't allowed to force their thinking upon others.

    Religious conservatives are just mad that "progressive" ideology is winning, and since they can not win by the power of their beliefs they will resort to violence and power to force themselves on others. The irony is strong, the hypocrisy is strong, down with the traitors to the Constitution and the Freedoms it has brought to the people. All freedoms that had to be fought for, demanded, even though they were supposedly guaranteed by the constitution. Looks like we'll have to have a second Civil Rights movement to reverse the evil shit being done right now.

    Thankfully Trump torpedoed the TPP so it isn't all bad...

    --
    ~Tilting at windmills~
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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by DannyB on Monday February 06 2017, @10:50PM

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 06 2017, @10:50PM (#463755) Journal

    As you say, there have always been lies. (Now we lie about the lies and call them "alternate facts")

    The government shouldn't regulate the news.

    I would think the answer should be education. But so many people like the right wing guy who spontaneously yelled at you seem to cherish ignorance as some sort of value. If you're educated, you're one of the elites. The enemy.

    If we want to fix things, and it won't be overnight, we need to invest more in education. Our education system is a failure. It turns out people who know how fat each of the kardashian's asses are, but can't point out any country on a map. They look confused if asked to point out where the Canada-Australia border is. :-) Etc

    --
    People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 06 2017, @11:46PM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 06 2017, @11:46PM (#463790) Homepage Journal

      Just curious, which party holds most of the jobs in education? You think there might be some causation there or just a really big coincidence?

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @12:31AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @12:31AM (#463816)

        It's probably the same party that owns the scientists and maintains the global conspiracy on global warming, evolution and gravitational "theory".

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @03:51PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @03:51PM (#464103)

        Do I think it is a coincidence that the majority of people with higher education disagree with trump and his policies... Hmm IDK what do you think TMB. Could all the educated people be wrong and you and your friends playing banjo over there are right? DO you really think its some sort of conspiracy, or can you just for a minute make your mind pliable enough to say, hey.... Maybe I am wrong.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 07 2017, @05:32PM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 07 2017, @05:32PM (#464156) Homepage Journal

          No, sweety, do you think it's a coincidence that progressives run our schools and that our schools are failing miserably while eating up ever larger portions of our budgets?

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2, Troll) by aristarchus on Tuesday February 07 2017, @06:28PM

            by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday February 07 2017, @06:28PM (#464192) Journal

            do you think it's a coincidence that progressives run our schools and that our schools are failing miserably while eating up ever larger portions of our budgets?

            It is not so much that it is coincidence as it is not true? Have you been listening to President Tiny Hands, or his Sec Ed nominee again? Not failing, not all that expensive. Fake News! It is the culture war by the right that is making America Ignorant Again. Just imagine if conservatives ran schools! Conservapedia type schools? Special Schools where the Professor Watchlist people would have safe-from-ideas zones, poor babies. Kansas schools? Yes, oh Minty Busstie', there is a correlation between education and progressivism, but the causation runs the opposite of the way you assume.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 07 2017, @07:10PM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 07 2017, @07:10PM (#464219) Homepage Journal

              Aristarchus, no matter how vehemently say it, a lie will always be a lie. We've been headed nowhere but down in education for decades now. We're not even in the top ten anymore. Despite throwing neverending piles of progressively (pun intended) more cash at it. You don't get to have alternative facts.

              I expect if conservatives ran education, standards would be set, results would be demanded, and those that couldn't manage them would fail. I also expect private schools would become a much more attractive option for the middle class and the poor, being the greedy fuckwads they are, would demand what they want even though they haven't earned it and their kids would be given vouchers for private schools as well. Then the public school system would collapse without anyone except those whose livelihoods depended on mediocrity to mourn it. Then we'd soon have the same problem with K-12 that we have with universities. Outrageous fees because they're guaranteed to be paid by the feds.

              Neither major party has the solution. And it doesn't lie somewhere in the middle. An actual workable solution is going to have to be started from the ground up. Preferably without a single politician or bureaucrat involved until it comes time to vote for it.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 08 2017, @02:45AM

                by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday February 08 2017, @02:45AM (#464409) Journal

                We've been headed nowhere but down in education for decades now. We're not even in the top ten anymore. Despite throwing neverending piles of progressively (pun intended) more cash at it. You don't get to have alternative facts.

                I know this cramps your style, Buzz, but prove it. My facts are not alternative if your facts are not facts at all but Fox News/Trump Inauguration memes!

                an education system flush with cash, but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge, and the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

                Our young and beautiful students, with pageant scholarships, no doubt, deprived of all knowledge! All! Just look a the American educational carnage! Kids these days are not just a little bit ignorant, they do not just place lower than Finnish kids on standardized testss, the have no knowledge at all. Zip. Nada. Bupkiss!! So I can see why you are so upset, Buzz. You musta been one o' those students!! Oh, the huge manatee!!! (It would be Huge, wouldn't it.)

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday February 08 2017, @03:10AM

                  by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday February 08 2017, @03:10AM (#464417) Homepage Journal

                  Well, you did ask for it, so here you go [cnn.com].

                  The US improved on its 2012 performance by moving up to 25 on the list.

                  Yay! We only suck horribly instead of atrociously! Fuck's sake, we're the richest nation in the world. We can do better than this.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                  • (Score: 1, Redundant) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 08 2017, @09:46AM

                    by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday February 08 2017, @09:46AM (#464486) Journal

                    The US improved on its 2012 performance by moving up to 25 on the list.

                    Yay! We only suck horribly instead of atrociously! Fuck's sake, we're the richest nation in the world. We can do better than this.

                    Yeah, but:

                    In terms of countries’ education expenditures by education level in 2012, the percentage of GDP the United States spent on elementary/secondary education (3.6 percent) was slightly lower than the OECD average (3.7 percent).

                    And we can do better at interpreting stats? From 36th to 25th? How is such a dramatic improvement possible, whilst American Educational Carnage is going on? And Rank tells us very little. What were the average, mean, and medians? Maybe you only suck moderately, which is remarkable and a salute to your educators, since they have to operate in an environment of American anti-intellectualism, hatred of teachers, revilement of teachers unions, and the insult of having a total idiot appointed to be the Secretary of Education.

                    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday February 08 2017, @10:54AM

                      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday February 08 2017, @10:54AM (#464495) Homepage Journal

                      Yes, I'm sure that someone just appointed has made a huge impact on past numbers.

                      --
                      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 08 2017, @06:44PM

                        by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday February 08 2017, @06:44PM (#464664) Journal

                        The fact that Betsy DeVos could be appointed speaks volumes more about the state of education in America than any test results. Result, not a cause; symptom, not the disease. Someone asked, how dumb can the US Senate be? And the Trump admin said, "Let's find out!" Now we know, and knowing is half the battle. Unfortunately, we will never actually get to the second half.

                        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday February 09 2017, @02:59AM

                          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday February 09 2017, @02:59AM (#464858) Homepage Journal

                          You're right, identity is way more important than results. What was I thinking?

                          --
                          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday February 09 2017, @04:33AM

                            by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday February 09 2017, @04:33AM (#464873) Journal

                            identity is way more important than results.

                            This is one of the major blockages in right wing feefees in America. It is not about identity, it is about competence. DeVos is incompetent. She also happens to benefit from the Amway fortune, and be the sister of Blackwater founder and ex-patriot, Erik Prince. But all that is neither here nor there, she could not identify "results" because for her, ignorance and religion are the result of what she calls "education". Oh, and "school choice" allows wealthier white parents to choose schools that the poor and non-white cannot afford, even with the wonderful freemarket, government enforced, voucher system.

                             

                            What was I thinking?

                            We have discussed this before, Bighty Musstard! It is not "what", it is the lack of "thinking". You have completely changed the topic, avoided addressing the actual stats on American education, well done, oh champion of libertarianism! I will have to take this as an admission that you got nothing, nothing but Trump. And having Trump is actually worse than nothing, as the Republican party is about to find out.

                            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday February 09 2017, @11:21AM

                              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday February 09 2017, @11:21AM (#464943) Homepage Journal

                              We have discussed this before, Bighty Musstard!

                              And this is why you will always be a better troll than Azuma Hazuki, though I would have went with "Blighty" instead.

                              --
                              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                              • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday February 14 2017, @04:25AM

                                by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday February 14 2017, @04:25AM (#466850) Journal

                                A "bight" is a version of a "bend", something of a tight knot. A Blight is a disease that affects plants, mostly. I stick by my choice. But if you prefer, you could have it your way.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Joe Desertrat on Monday February 06 2017, @10:53PM

    by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Monday February 06 2017, @10:53PM (#463760)

    the only people I hear raging about "fake news" are conservatives

    Yes, and they are the same people who have spent the last eight years bombarding social media with shares of the most utterly preposterous tripe, claiming outrage over the "news" they were informing us about. It usually took only minutes (after clicking through several pages of search results showing conservative blogs all parroting the same misinformation) to find the original text of a speech or original article and debunk these claims. Some will claim liberals do the same, but unless I have a really unusual mix of friends and family, that is not the case.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 06 2017, @11:23PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 06 2017, @11:23PM (#463775)

      unless I have a really unusual mix of friends and family

      I'd bet that you do. The chances of you having an unbiased, represententive sample of all "liberals" is incredibly low.

      Be wary of cognative bias, especially your own.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 06 2017, @11:47PM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 06 2017, @11:47PM (#463791) Homepage Journal

      You have an unusual mix of friends and family.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:59AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:59AM (#463861)

        No matter how hard you wish it to be so, the guys who make money off peddling lies found that the market just wasn't there.

        We've tried to do similar things to liberals. It just has never worked, it never takes off. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out.

        http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs [npr.org]

        Anyone who listens to talk radio knows its true - 90% of the syndicated ads on talk radio are for scams. That's because they know the audience is primarily credulous fools.

        That's not to say liberals are completely immune to fake news. Just that the herd immunity is a lot stronger because modern liberal culture has embraced facts and science over truthiness and emotion.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 07 2017, @03:52AM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 07 2017, @03:52AM (#463876) Homepage Journal

          Liberal Culture Values Facts Over Emotion

          What planet are you living on? The entire progressive platform lately has been about not hurting their feelz. Conservatives and libertarians are constantly being accused of being unfeeling simply because we don't give a shit if you're offended.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @05:05AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @05:05AM (#463903)

            That is because you listen to the dogma put out by those who fancy themselves your master. You are manipulated beyond belief by fake bullshit propped up by emotional xenophobia. The number of liberals that fit your description are small and mostly exist in universities where they are still growing up and learning about themselves. Conservatives are the ones who easily get their feelings hurt, and due to some weird trick of human nature that insecurity leads them to lash out at others. You can see the same phenomenon with liberals as well, but as the other commenter pointed out it is much less likely in a liberal population. Why again? Because liberals are much more accepting of new viewpoints, they value education more, and they are more likely to value science over the magic sky fairy.

            In case you missed my point, conservatives are easily hurt which is why they lash out in ways that appear to be unfeeling and cruel. It isn't that you don't give a shit, that is just your attempt at rationalization and externalizing the issues. To be fair, quite a few liberals have the same failings. Their insecurity leads them on their own crusades for social justice. At least they try and improve the world in their flawed way, conservatives tend to let their insecurity lead to fear and hatred. I'll take the insecure liberal, they're about 10x more likely to respond to factual evidence and rational discourse. Conservatives, or libertarians as you now like to be called, tend to ignore facts with a single minded stubbornness. The more evidence you bring against them the more they dig in their heels and twist the facts into some crazy kaleidoscope of logic.

            All that said, there is a lot of value in conservative people. And there is a lot of troubling behavior in liberals. But you would do well to actually learn some facts and experience reality instead of buying into the reality dictated by the talking heads.

            One of my good friends is conservative...

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 07 2017, @05:41PM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 07 2017, @05:41PM (#464163) Homepage Journal

              No, sweety, I just listen to tools like you on the left. You're happy to fill me in on how offending you should be legally banned and anyone doing so should also be fired from their job, have the swat team sent to their house, be no-platformed if they try to speak out in their own defense, and otherwise ostracized from society. Oh, and we should apparently go to hell too according to my favorite progtard on here.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 06 2017, @11:10PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 06 2017, @11:10PM (#463771)

    So your sample of 1 is the whole of the rest of the united states?

    As a 'conservative' this is a pants down stupid idea. It would quickly turn into a political football to be used to bully the other party when they are in charge. The democrats used the IRS to do it a few years ago. Why would they not do it again?

    Religious conservatives
    Ah so you do not really know conservatives but have a nice pejorative for them. If you think 'progressive' is winning look to the state legislatures and governerships. The DNC has a *lot* of work to do.

    they will resort to violence and power to force themselves on others
    You have not been watching the news much have you? Or are you just being ironic?

  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 06 2017, @11:43PM

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 06 2017, @11:43PM (#463788) Homepage Journal

    TMB you're bias shows... like, a LOT!

    Ya reckon? I haven't RTFA yet. Saw it in my RSS feed and did an automated submission through IRC because I knew it'd stir some interesting discussion.

    Religious conservatives are just mad that "progressive" ideology is winning, and since they can not win by the power of their beliefs they will resort to violence and power to force themselves on others.

    A) Religious conservatives are not a significant power in the Republican party and haven't been since the 80s.
    B) Check your bullshit on violence. Republicans aren't the ones rioting, looting, burning shit, assaulting people, and causing the deaths of innocents simply because someone dared to disagree with them. That would be progressives. Entirely progressives, not even a mixed bag.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Tuesday February 07 2017, @12:00AM

      by Zz9zZ (1348) on Tuesday February 07 2017, @12:00AM (#463801)

      I was not talking about rioting, I was talking about the government authority that libertarians complain so vocally about. The "monopoly on violence" to push laws on us poor folks. The US has gotten incredibly more progressive in the last 60 years: no more legal segregation, women's rights over their own bodies, etc. Religious conservatives can't stand this and this, along with other more valid issues such as immigration and outsourcing of jobs, and this election cycle they were able to come out on top with a winning minority.

      Let's see if we can look at history and not just the last few crazy months of this election. Y'know, to get some real perspective.

      On the conservative side: lynchings, beatings, murders, destruction of property, vandalism, bombing abortion clinics. All done by extremist conservatives.
      On the liberal side: destruction of property, vandalism, much less murder and physical violence against people.

      All humans can be violent, but progressives/liberals are more humane as a general group. Conservatives are less humane as a group unless you are on their side. This holds true across all countries, and I'm sure you'll trot out "communists" as an example of failed liberal/progressive ideas but don't bother, that red herring is about dictatorship not progressive/liberal ideology.

      So historically the religious conservatives are the ones reacting with violence and hatred, progressive liberals are more likely to destroy equipment to stop projects they don't like but actual murder and physical violence is much lower. 8 years of Obama and we have a loooot of evidence for how batshit crazy conservatives can be, but you aren't crying foul there, nope nope only now that liberals are causing a ruckus.

      I'm gonna go with "piss off" for your one sided view of reality. Twist the facts to suit your purposes and ignore the facts that show you're wrong. Good show, TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP! (I know you're not his biggest fan, but you sure fit the profile)

      --
      ~Tilting at windmills~
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 07 2017, @12:43AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 07 2017, @12:43AM (#463820) Homepage Journal

        That liberal and progressive largely coincided until the late 90s should not be taken as an endorsement of progressiveism. Progressiveism can never end or those making money off of it stop making money off of it. Thus, once a rough equality was reached, they turned away from equality and began progressing in another direction entirely. So, no, progressiveism is not a good thing. It is an entirely self-serving and quite vile thing.

        All humans can be violent, but progressives/liberals are more humane as a general group.

        Bullshit. Pick any timespan ending now in the US that conservatives were more violent than progressives. Conservatives simply are not as inherently malevolent as progressives. As for the current decade? It's all you lot, baby. All of it. Your lot's hissy fit over Trump getting elected stopped ambulances and people died. Your lot viciously beat students at UC Berkeley for having different views. Your lot needs to take a long, hard look at itself and see if its actions are really how they want to go about things, because I guarantee you conservatives and the actual liberals, libertarians, won't tolerate it for much longer.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Zz9zZ on Tuesday February 07 2017, @01:17AM

          by Zz9zZ (1348) on Tuesday February 07 2017, @01:17AM (#463828)

          I never said there weren't extremist liberals, there totally are. However, percentage-wise the conservative base has typically had a more violent population and no amount of hissy fits from you will change that fact. As usual you have selective memory where the facts only support your world view, so we can stop this back and forth as we obviously disagree and will find no common ground. If you hadn't thrown in your little editorial "some people upset by the results of the election" then we wouldn't be having this conversation. But no, you had to throw partisan spin into it.

          Without common ground we have no way forward, so I guess we can spit at each other across no man's land once the civil war breaks out.

          --
          ~Tilting at windmills~
          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:21AM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:21AM (#463846) Journal

            He means un-sanctioned violence. Y'see when the state does it, so long as he agrees with it, it's fine.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:29AM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:29AM (#463850) Homepage Journal

              Yes, do please tell everyone how the poster boy libertarian adores state use of power. Might as well say you're a libertarian yourself and then go on about how you want the government to use its power to make people act, speak, and think like you believe they should some more.

              Here's a clue since I know you'll never get one for yourself: if you find yourself thinking your plans would work wonderfully if only you had better people, you're a tyrant. Or a wannabe tyrant in your case.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday February 07 2017, @03:25AM

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday February 07 2017, @03:25AM (#463868) Journal

                How many cases of lightbulbs do you go through a month, projecting like that? You fool no one but yourself. I've seen all this shit happen before and it never ends well.

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                • (Score: 1, TouchĂ©) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 08 2017, @02:46AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 08 2017, @02:46AM (#464410)

                  She's got you there, TMB you're definitely more the type that would make other people conform to your desires. I recall some thread where you bitched about employees and had all sorts of gripes, you're a tyrannical boss which is common for computer nerd types. Flexing your authority because you believe you're so much smarter / more insightful than everyone else.

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday February 08 2017, @05:58AM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday February 08 2017, @05:58AM (#464456) Journal

                    Look closer at his history: he is about the same as the very Steve Bannon we're railing against. He's in favor of "burning it all down," which is thinly-disguised code for a complete coup d'etat and remaking of the nation in his desires' image...and if you've seen the shit he posts you know what that is.

                    The worst part is the bizarre, almost teenaged sense of invincibility and entitlement he has. He actually seems to think he's some kind of temporarily-embarrassed elite who will be showered in money and power in the new world. I've been telling him for ages now that the kind of fire that will burn it all down will consume him with it...and continue to ravage him in hell.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:49AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:49AM (#463855) Journal

            "so I guess we can spit at each other across no man's land once the civil war breaks out."

            That would be funny, if it weren't so stupid. Ask yourself - "Who bought all those guns that Obama prompted Americans to buy?" The vast majority of gun owners are independent, libertarian, or conservative. Those "blue islands" in the political maps are where the liberals live, and those islands have the strictest gun laws in the nation. So, you envision the hoplophobic left suddenly acquiring arms, in sufficient quantities to overcome the conservative element in the US? You also presume that you will find sufficient numbers of lefties who are proficient in the use of those weapons?

            You better search harder for that common ground you mentioned, because the civil war won't go the way you envision.

            • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Tuesday February 07 2017, @04:36AM

              by Zz9zZ (1348) on Tuesday February 07 2017, @04:36AM (#463893)

              QED huh? Speaking of stupid I guess you are doubling down?

              --
              ~Tilting at windmills~
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @06:40PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @06:40PM (#464200)

              My Gawd Runaway, you are an idjit! Doncha know that there are more liberals than racist conservatives in 'Merica? Don't you know that number of liberals who have guns is almost twice the number of conservatives? Don't you know that liberals are better shots, since they do not foam at the mouth and violently shake with rage? And most importantly, liberals tend not to get shot with their own firearms as much as conservatives do, when they are "playing" with them, when the toddler gets a holt of them, when they "didn't know it was loaded". So the left does not need to acquire, they are already ready. The are the descendants of those flamin' liberals, the Minutemen.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @07:39PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @07:39PM (#464232)

              That would be funny, if it weren't so stupid. Ask yourself - "Who bought all those guns that Obama prompted Americans to buy?" The vast majority of gun owners are independent, libertarian, or conservative. Those "blue islands" in the political maps are where the liberals live, and those islands have the strictest gun laws in the nation. So, you envision the hoplophobic left suddenly acquiring arms, in sufficient quantities to overcome the conservative element in the US? You also presume that you will find sufficient numbers of lefties who are proficient in the use of those weapons?

              Ah, so we finally reach the nub of the matter: might makes right. It's refreshing, in an odd sort of a way, that you have finally dropped all pretense that you are at all interested in democracy. And Obama did not prompt you guys to buy any guns; that is entirely on you and your paranoid fantasies.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:42AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 07 2017, @02:42AM (#463852) Journal

        "On the conservative side: lynchings, beatings, murders, destruction of property, vandalism, bombing abortion clinics. All done by extremist conservatives.
        On the liberal side: destruction of property, vandalism, much less murder and physical violence against people."

        Except - the KKK was made up of Democrats. Historically, the "left" have killed far more people than the right, by orders of magnitude. Or - are you redefining Russia and China as right? Interesting thing I read today - when a left leaning government starts killing people off, the global "community" just shrugs, and mutters crap about making omelets, and broken eggs. But, when a right leaning government kills some people, then the same global "community" is up in arms, ready to commit their own atrocities in the name of "justice".

        And, the masses accept that kind of shit, because mass media writes it up in pretty terms.

        Please, do look at history. But, don't just look at the few years of your own lifetime.

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @07:02AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @07:02AM (#463932)

          Except - the KKK was made up of Democrats.

          Yes it was. Democrats who were trying to preserve the status quo. i.e. Conservatives
          The Republicans were fighting against that, trying to bring some measure of equality to the USA. i.e. progressives.
          Then the Southern Strategy happened. Things are different now.

          Democratic/Republican and Conservative/Progressive are largely unrelated axes. Neither party has a monopoly on either concept.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @10:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 07 2017, @10:25AM (#463965)

      Dylann Roof is a progressive now.