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posted by cmn32480 on Sunday February 19 2017, @02:10AM   Printer-friendly
from the like-adding-ice-to-a-drink dept.

Climate Central reports

[...] A massive iceberg roughly 225 square miles in size--or in more familiar terms, 10 times the size of Manhattan--broke off [from the Pine Island Glacier] in July 2015. Scientists subsequently spotted cracks in the glacier on a November 2016 flyover. And in January, another iceberg cleaved off the glacier.

Satellite imagery captured the most recent calving event, which Ohio State glaciologist Ian Howat said " is the equivalent of an 'aftershock'" following the July 2015 event. The iceberg was roughly "only" the size of Manhattan, underscoring just how dramatic the other breakups have been.

[...] The ocean under Pine Island Glacier's ice shelf has warmed about 1°F since the 1990s. That's causing the ice shelf to melt and pushing the grounding line--the point where the ice begins to float--back toward land, creating further instability.

[...] The glaciers [such as the Pine Island Glacier] and ice shelves [such as the Larsen C ice shelf, which is on a death watch] help hold back a massive ice sheet on land. Their failure would send that ice to the ocean, pushing sea levels up to 13 feet higher than they are today.

[...] Cutting carbon pollution presents the only path forward to stave off the worst impacts of a melting Antarctic.


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  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday February 19 2017, @04:46AM

    by Gaaark (41) on Sunday February 19 2017, @04:46AM (#468856) Journal

    A Manhattan sized chunk, 10 times the size of Manhattan?!?

    Did it stuff a sock down it's pants?

    --
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  • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Sunday February 19 2017, @06:01AM

    by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Sunday February 19 2017, @06:01AM (#468873)

    I had to read TFS about 3 times as well.

    The Manhattan sized chunk is only the most recent piece to break off.

    • (Score: 1) by anubi on Sunday February 19 2017, @08:18AM

      by anubi (2828) on Sunday February 19 2017, @08:18AM (#468896) Journal

      Somehow, I see Antarctica as the freezer box of this planet, and like the freezer box in your house, unless defrosted, will cover itself in ice by stripping the air around it of moisture.

      If this water was not returned to the ocean by the mechanism of calving, eventually all the water on the planet would end up there, frozen.

      This is part of one of Nature's cycles that has been going on long before we came on the scene. The relentless cycle of air dehumidification and calving.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @09:54AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @09:54AM (#468908)

        ...which has been exacerbated by humans burning stuff.

        has been going on long before we came on the scene

        ...but never at the current rate.
        Earth Temperature Timeline [xkcd.com]

        ...and you haven't mentioned that there are giant cities built near sea level on coasts.
        Accepting sea level rise as inevitable is writing off a HUGE amount of infrastructure globally.

        ...not to mention droughts, increasingly violent weather, and population migrations because of crop failures that accompany the warming.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by anubi on Sunday February 19 2017, @12:46PM

          by anubi (2828) on Sunday February 19 2017, @12:46PM (#468923) Journal

          Interesting chart.

          I question the amount of height the sea level is claimed to change, as the oceans are already a very big place and changing their level is going to require an awful lot of water.

          Same concern I had regarding the Biblical flood of Noah's time. I have a helluva hard time accounting for the sudden appearance of so much water, and it takes more faith than I have to think God monkeyed around with his own laws of physics in order to confound the hell out of anyone taking his own instructions to verify everything and hold to that which is true.

          I don't doubt there *was* a flood. There are many accounts of one. I question whether or not it was global. Plate Tectonic shifts do a neat job explaining why we find sea shells in the most unusual places, as well as explain why the layers in the earth lay out as they do ( I used to work with a bunch of geologists at Chevron ).

          My main concern is with additional energy ( thermal ) in the air, we are going to see more and more of it converted to shaft work ( storms ) through the thermodynamics of the phase change of water in the liquid-vapor region. We have one example of what appears to be one helluva storm already in our solar system... the great red spot of Jupiter. It would not surprise me to see a perpetual superstorm emerge on this planet if we keep trapping all that heat in our atmosphere, just as it would not surprise me to hear a very loud squeal emit from some entertainment venue which is relentlessly cranking up the gain on their microphones.

          A lot of this smacks of Chaos theory, and what happens as certain parameters are changed.

          Another thing that concerns me with increasing CO2 levels is increased acidification of the ocean which will dissolve the carbonate structures that a lot of marine life depends on. They simply weren't designed to operate out of their pH range. Will they adapt? I do not know.

          I have a homebrew carbonator I use to prepare my own sodapop and experimented once on carbonating magnesium hydroxide ( Milk of Magnesia ) in the hopes of making a sodapop flavored bowel cleanser. I noted how the magnesium hydroxide went right into solution as the CO2 went in. My calculations indicated my CO2 was forming Magnesium Bicarbonate, which is far more soluble in water than the hydroxide form. My intent was also to make a replacement for the sodium bicarbonate I commonly use for tummy upsets. So on the next tummy upset, I drank my special sodapop.

          Learned a lesson. The CO2 came back out as the magnesium bicarbonate went to magnesium chloride. And the magnesium ion reversed osmotic pressure in the gut, sending contents out with considerable vigor under pneumatic forces. Took me several days before the bathroom smells were gone.

          --
          "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
          • (Score: 4, Informative) by butthurt on Sunday February 19 2017, @05:04PM

            by butthurt (6141) on Sunday February 19 2017, @05:04PM (#468980) Journal

            I question the amount of height the sea level is claimed to change, as the oceans are already a very big place and changing their level is going to require an awful lot of water.

            Antarctica is estimated to have 26.5 million cubic kilometres of ice.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21692423 [bbc.co.uk]

            The area of the world ocean is estimated at 361.9 million square kilometres.

            https://ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/global/etopo1_ocean_volumes.html [noaa.gov]

            By simply dividing the volume of ice by the area of the ocean I crudely estimate there could be 73.2 m of sea level rise if all that ice were melted. In actuality it would rise less than that, because some of that ice is already resting on the sea floor and low-lying land would be flooded. When ice that's below sea level melts, it actually causes the sea level to fall a little. The BBC article I linked gives an estimate of 58 m.

            The estimate you may be questioning, however, is for the West Antarctic ice sheet only. In Wikipedia someone has written that the West Antarctic ice sheet comprises about 10% of the ice in Antarctica. I wasn't able to confirm the source that's cited because dx.doi.org wasn't working for me.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Antarctic_ice_sheet [wikipedia.org]
            https://dx.doi.org/10.1029%2F2000JB900449 [doi.org]

            However 13 feet is 4.0 m; that's a fair bit less than 10% of 58 m.

            Later in the article is a prediction that melting in "West Antarctica could contribute an additional 8 inches of water" (20 cm) to the ocean "by the end of this century." If that fails to happen, it won't be for lack of enough ice.

            • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday February 19 2017, @07:45PM

              by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 19 2017, @07:45PM (#469043) Journal

              Yes, but it's doubtful that all of Antarctica will melt (not that that was claimed in this article, but I've seen some...).

              What I noticed missing in the summary is any estimate of how long it would take the glacier to move out to being an ice-shelf. There probably isn't a decent prediction, but it's worth noting that a few centuries wouldn't really be surprising. (Of course, other things are happening at the same time, and every fractional inch of rise in sea level places more ice on the float, where it can more easily move. So a shorter time-frame also wouldn't surprise me.)

              Still, I suspect that "300 foot rise in sea level" as being interpolated by a reporter, unless the original phrase had a whole bunch of qualifiers around it.

              This is significant, but it's quite unlikely to be all that significant in and of itself, but only as a part of a much more widespread process.

              --
              Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
              • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Sunday February 19 2017, @09:00PM

                by butthurt (6141) on Sunday February 19 2017, @09:00PM (#469065) Journal

                I didn't see a mention of a "300 foot rise in sea level."

                • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday February 20 2017, @02:52AM

                  by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 20 2017, @02:52AM (#469143) Journal

                  You're right. It was a 13 foot rise that I didn't believe (unless the summary has been edited). I feel innumerate.

                  --
                  Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @10:19PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @10:19PM (#469089)

            Those among us who are hundreds of feet up [google.com] on a chunk of rock might easily poo-poo what may or may not happen.
            For some of our neighbors living in a sandy coastal area, [google.com] however, this could be life-altering stuff.

            the Biblical flood of Noah's time

            Clearly not a global event.
            The record doesn't support a massive die-off of plants as would happen as the event was described.
            N.B. Bill Cosby's 1960s retelling of the story is priceless. [youtube.com]
            (Just image how much poop 2 elephants would generate in 40-plus days--not to mention trying to keep the rabbit population at just 2.)

            I have a helluva hard time accounting for the sudden appearance of so much water

            The devastation of the Minoan civilization on Crete is a better model for what was obviously a local event.
            Assuming that it even happened with the big boat and one clan surviving, a much better explanation than 40 days of rain is a seismically-generated wall of water from a supervolcano. [google.com]

            increasing CO2 levels

            There needs to be a much greater focus in the schools on the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus.
            If everybody knew that the surface temperature of that place is enough to melt lead, attitudes would be different.

            pressure in the gut, sending contents out with considerable vigor

            Frijoles (Pinto paste) has gotten me there. Hydrogen sulfide and methane instead of CO2.
            Peruanos are even less gassy. Milder taste too. Typically priced a bit higher, however.
            Smaller portions consumed at shorter intervals keeps me regular without the drama.

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 1) by anubi on Monday February 20 2017, @06:16AM

              by anubi (2828) on Monday February 20 2017, @06:16AM (#469184) Journal

              Thanks... I learned yet more today on this thanks to you guys.

              Sure helps me out when I invariably enter into theological arguments.

              --
              "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @08:27AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @08:27AM (#468898)

    What is a manhattan and how many football fields would that be? Or i don't know use some sort of meaningful measure like cubic km.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @09:53AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19 2017, @09:53AM (#468907)

      Well, first you take Gabriël Fahrenheit's wife, and ask her if you could please stick a thermometer in her armpit ...
      Then you use the resulting temperature scale to discuss a humongous chunk of melting ice.
      It's all quite logical(*), really!

      (*) in the USA, Micronesia, Palau, Belize, Bahamas and Cayman Islands

    • (Score: 2) by rts008 on Sunday February 19 2017, @02:42PM

      by rts008 (3001) on Sunday February 19 2017, @02:42PM (#468942)

      A Manhattan is a cocktail made with whiskey, sweet vermouth, and bitters.(according to wikipedia)

      I guess it would depend on how small you fold them, as to 'how many football fields' you could put in a cocktail glass?

      Anymore silly questions?

  • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday February 19 2017, @11:02AM

    by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday February 19 2017, @11:02AM (#468914) Journal

    It's because of Trump making Manhattan great again. ;-)

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.