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posted by on Wednesday March 01 2017, @07:34PM   Printer-friendly
from the totally-normal,-right? dept.

America's new president gave an address to a joint session of Congress. The Los Angeles Times posted a full transcript of the speech (along with remarks from its staff that may require Javascript to view); Bloomberg uploaded a video of the event.

The New York Times called it "the most presidential speech Mr. Trump has ever given — delivered at precisely the moment he needed to project sobriety, seriousness of purpose and self-discipline."

[Ed. Note: This is the first story specifically placed into the Politics Nexus. The intent is that most stories with a predominantly political topic will be in this Nexus. They will appear on the main page with other stories under default settings, but individual logged in users can choose to turn off any Nexus so the stories published therein are not shown. The setting to change visibility of Nexi is on your preferences page under the tab marked "Homepage."]


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:31PM (29 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:31PM (#473533) Journal

    EVERYONE should be tearing him a new one and demanding impeachment.

    Demand a pony while you're at it. If impeachment for lying were a thing, we'd have impeached most presidents since Washington, including a fair number that are actually considered good (Lincoln, FDR, Eisenhower, etc).

    From outright lies (I dunno someone gave me that information *cough BULLSHIT*) to potentially traitorous dealings with Russia

    In other words, you got nothing.

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  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Zz9zZ on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:39PM (20 children)

    by Zz9zZ (1348) on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:39PM (#473538)

    The simple fact that you defend him while the evidence is ever increasing is troubling. Apparently no amount of evidence can sway your emotional attachment, you stand up for a conman / liar / and generally distasteful human being. The only reason to do so is if you have deep seated emotional problems of your own, so Trump's outrageous and offensive behavior is actually comforting to you. Try using reason when "your guy" is attacked, maybe your emotional reaction is clouding your judgment.

    --
    ~Tilting at windmills~
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:45PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:45PM (#473547)

      > rump's outrageous and offensive behavior is actually comforting to you

      Impossible!
      Khallow is a being of pure logic and reason.
      Like Spock.
      or Sheldon.

      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday March 01 2017, @11:35PM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday March 01 2017, @11:35PM (#473611) Journal

        Khallow is a being of pure logic and reason.

        You take back that insult right this minute!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 01 2017, @11:46PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 01 2017, @11:46PM (#473618)

        And yet, he has a deep fear, if I remember well.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:48PM (12 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:48PM (#473550) Journal

      Apparently no amount of evidence can sway your emotional attachment, you stand up for a conman / liar / and generally distasteful human being.

      Good. Show the evidence that presidents get impeached for lying. I'll wait.

      The only reason to do so is if you have deep seated emotional problems of your own, so Trump's outrageous and offensive behavior is actually comforting to you. Try using reason when "your guy" is attacked, maybe your emotional reaction is clouding your judgment.

      I'm not you. My mental reactions are not your mental reactions. Just because you have an emotional reaction that clouds your judgment doesn't mean I do as well.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:54PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:54PM (#473557)

        My mental reactions are not your mental reactions. Just because you have an emotional reaction that clouds your judgment doesn't mean I do as well.

        Wait.
        Did you just accuse him of not knowing you and then immediately turn around claim to know him?
        You have got to be one of the least self-aware people on soylent.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:49PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:49PM (#473585) Journal

          Did you just accuse him of not knowing you and then immediately turn around claim to know him?

          By making the accusation he revealed information about himself. Let us note in particular how much writing he spent discussing my alleged mental failings without providing even the slightest sliver of evidence or reason which is very peculiar for someone claiming to have such evidence and reason. Where did that come from then? My view is that if it didn't come from actual evidence, then it's internally fabricated. That's what psychological projection is all about.

          You have got to be one of the least self-aware people on soylent.

          Says the person who complained that I was doing a tu quoque fallacy and then proceeded to do it as well. I think the glaring problem here is not that I'm somehow not "self-aware" despite considerable evidence to the contrary (such as acknowledging that I can be wrong), but rather that you, Zz9zZ, and a bunch of other people aren't other-aware. There has been a ridiculous amount of owned goals here such as an AC accusing someone of being blind to the faults of Trump because... the other AC notes that Trump can and has read a fair number of prepared speeches or Zz9zZ accusing me and others of being Trump supporters merely because we don't buy the idea of impeachment for lying. The delusion and batshit crazy is getting pretty heavy in this thread.

          But here's your chance to have a grown up moment. Trump says X in the news. Find where Trump tweeted not X. Before that X. Before that not X... etc. It sounds like there's probably dozens of shiny examples of flip-flops in Trump's short career. Use those to mock his inability to tell the truth, to have a concrete opinion, etc. It's not impeachment material, but it works. Demanding that he get impeached for something no one has been impeached for before is stupid and self-defeating. Nailing Trump for the things he does wrong works.

      • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:04PM (9 children)

        by Zz9zZ (1348) on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:04PM (#473562)

        It is the only logical explanation for your adherence to Trump. I've seen the symptom many times before, logical rational people still think they're being logical and rational when their emotions are actually compromised. I'll just sit back and enjoy this turnabout where "your team" shows everyone that they are actually the special snowflakes that can't bear criticism.

        --
        ~Tilting at windmills~
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:35PM (8 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:35PM (#473580) Journal
          I notice this pattern before. All the kooks and loonies can talk about how rational and logical they're being. But they never, ever get around to anything concrete. It's not my imaginary emotions that we are discussing here. It's grounds for impeaching Trump (in case you've forgotten).

          I can point to lies uttered by a fair number of previous presidents or their proxies: "You can keep your health insurance, if you want to", "There are WMD in Iraq", "I didn't have sex with that woman", "Read my lips, no new taxes", etc. And the only time an impeachment occurred was for lying in court - perjury, which is a felony.
          • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:59PM (7 children)

            by Zz9zZ (1348) on Wednesday March 01 2017, @10:59PM (#473595)

            EVERYONE should be tearing him a new one and demanding impeachment.

            I guess you can't tell an opinion apart from a factual claim. I did not say he could be impeached, I did not say he will be impeached, and I did not say I have evidence strong enough to impeach him for. For that we'll need the FBI and probably CIA to weigh in on Trump's accountability for Flynn and other Russian ties.

            I said we should impeach him.

            But hey, don't let me stop your train of righteous indignation!! Please, spin the discussion off into inconsequential areas /s You're very much like Trump, you are full of yourself, think you're always correct, and never backpedal when called out for having conflicting viewpoints. You say what is convenient and useful to your argument at hand, and seem to only care about facts when they support your own world view. Calling me out for things which are 50% fabricated in your imagination is... frustratingly funny I guess.

            --
            ~Tilting at windmills~
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 02 2017, @12:16AM (5 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 02 2017, @12:16AM (#473633) Journal

              But hey, don't let me stop your train of righteous indignation!!

              I had this vague impression after your talk of logic, reason, etc that you might have wanted fact-based opinions rather than opinions that didn't matter.

              You're very much like Trump, you are full of yourself, think you're always correct, and never backpedal when called out for having conflicting viewpoints.

              Yet here I am being "called out". Is this just another opinion that doesn't matter? Because it sure sounds a lot like your "Trump should be impeached" opinion in its lack of reliance on factual claims.

              You say what is convenient and useful to your argument at hand

              Reason often works that way. I find particularly that the tools of the disassembly of an argument often lie in plain view in the argument or in simple observations. And I see once again, someone typing away about how I'm such a terrible debater or whatnot without even a single example. I've been treating that as of late as projection since the speculations about my behavior seem to have nothing to do with my behavior.

              • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Thursday March 02 2017, @12:40AM (4 children)

                by Zz9zZ (1348) on Thursday March 02 2017, @12:40AM (#473638)

                No no, just long term observation. Your comments tend to stick out because they are rationally inflammatory, and I get to see how so often people respond with good information only to have you double down on whatever bullcrap you've got going on. So I'm not putting too much effort into this thread, it is tiring to waste serious thought and analysis so I'll just spew my off-the-cuff thoughts about your responses.

                --
                ~Tilting at windmills~
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:09AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:09AM (#473728) Journal
                  Funny how your narrative changed from "Apparently no amount of evidence can sway your emotional attachment" to "So I'm not putting too much effort into this thread". Well, I guess you're right, no amount of evidence was presented and no swaying happened as a result. But if you ever want to exert yourself a little and present a serious argument, I'll be around.
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:37AM (2 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:37AM (#473738) Journal
                  I'll note that there's been an AC flat Earther on SN recently. He has plenty of long term observations. These observations aren't even remotely based on reality, but them's the breaks. There are ways to differentiate your viewpoint from a flat Earther who believes that NASA and the Freemasons are lying to us all in a massive conspiracy about the Moon to further the will of Satan, but you have to take those steps. Bragging about how little effort you put into thinking doesn't cut it.

                  As an AC poster noted [soylentnews.org]:

                  His train of righteous indignation? You're the one calling for everyone to rise up and impeach Trump while admitting there's no legal reason to do so. You're the one calling for a witch hunt.

                  If you were instead some Republican false flag operation, could you present a worse argument, undermining the case against Trump, than you actually have? I think not. Crying wolf on extremely frivolous grounds is a very effective way to destroy an argument.

                  • (Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Thursday March 02 2017, @06:55PM (1 child)

                    by Zz9zZ (1348) on Thursday March 02 2017, @06:55PM (#474001)

                    Your analogy fails because the wolf is there, just dummies like yourself can't see it or don't believe the wolf is actually going to eat your sheep. As I already stated the call for impeachment was opinion, I don't have the concrete evidence necessary to accuse Trump of actual treason. So far we only have near-criminal levels of incompetence.

                    The conspiracy trick was created by Nixon and his yes-men, are you really that old? Thankfully it isn't an issue, the majority of US citizens agree with me that Trump sucks. Hard pill to swallow huh? Next time don't back a Turd.

                    --
                    ~Tilting at windmills~
                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 03 2017, @04:37AM

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @04:37AM (#474263) Journal

                      As I already stated the call for impeachment was opinion, I don't have the concrete evidence necessary to accuse Trump of actual treason.

                      As long as Trump follows the rule of law (at least as well as the other presidents who managed to not get impeached, which is a fairly low standard) and/or evidence of wrong doing of sufficient scale doesn't turn up in a few years, then the grounds for impeachment just don't exist. With your fake accusation, you provide material support to your alleged enemies (here, Trump and his supporters). That calls into question your motives. Are you actually trying to resist Trump's rise to power? Or are you undermining opposition to Trump by crying wolf [wikipedia.org], merely pretending to be in opposition to Trump on spurious grounds?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @02:30AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @02:30AM (#473684)

              His train of righteous indignation? You're the one calling for everyone to rise up and impeach Trump while admitting there's no legal reason to do so. You're the one calling for a witch hunt.

              Trump will be a horrible president. Out of that we might get some good as the government fights against itself instead of colluding for itself. I do prefer someone who will tell me an easily detectable lie to my face than someone who'll stab me in the back while acting like my friend. Almost all politicians are corrupt bastards. Trump is at least a little more open about it, so that puts him above the others. It certainly doesn't make him a good person, but the bar is really low in Washington.

              Out of the options we were given during the last election, sadly Trump was the best choice with a chance of winning.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:55PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 01 2017, @09:55PM (#473558) Journal
      As an aside, we have a case where a president, Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury, but that is an actual felony since he lied in a court of law. Merely lying to the public is not perjury. And with the way the public votes, it's painfully evident that a lot of the public wants to be lied to. So I'm definitely not going to advocate impeachment for a non-criminal behavior, no matter how ugly, that the voting public wants.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday March 02 2017, @01:55AM (2 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday March 02 2017, @01:55AM (#473668) Journal

      I have a bit of a different view. I am tired of Wall Street and media talking heads and politicians talking to me like I'm fucking stupid, that the status quo is the best of all possible worlds, and that I'd realize that if only I would grow up and be mature about it. Meanwhile, watching the numbers, I see the wealth and vitality of the American people being sucked into the maws of a thousand lamprey eels.

      So if Trump directs his outrageous and offensive behavior at those parties, then I'm fine with that. In fact, I wish he'd be more outrageous and offensive to them. I wish he'd publicly haul out guys responsible for the sub-prime mortgage crisis and behead them on the National Mall. (Sadly, instead of that he hired a couple of those fuckers to run the economy) But he has taken aim at Congress, whom I hate, and at the federal bureaucracy, which I mostly despise. He has bullied some of the giant corporations that have been cutting our throats.

      In short, the jury's still out. I really wish the contest had come down to Trump vs. Bernie, and that Bernie had won, but if Trump beheads some of the 1% assholes who have been destroying the country, I'll consider it a net win.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @06:31PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @06:31PM (#473984)

        The problem with your attitude is that this "beheading" does not happen in isolation.
        The collateral damage he is doing in the process is enormous.
        So yeah, great, a couple of deserving 1% got whacked. And millions of 99% did too.

        And if your response to that is "well those 99% were getting fucked anyway" then you are way too close to being a 1%er yourself.

        • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday March 03 2017, @12:08PM

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday March 03 2017, @12:08PM (#474328) Journal

          What collateral damage is he doing? Failing to fill several hundred positions in the federal bureaucracy because they're not needed? Yes, that does sound like enormous damage is being done to the DC gravy train. Or are you talking about the agita he's giving the professional worriers? Most of those people are already in therapy and on prozac, so that problem is being handled.

          It is possible to take out the 1% without taking out the 99%, too, but it takes political will and the intent to do so. In a pre-revolution context it means arresting the people for the crimes they have committed, and for which there is ample evidence, and convicting them instead of giving them untold sums of money and patted on the back with a mild admonition of, "do better next time, old chap."

          It does not look like Trump means to do that to Wall Street, but it would be nice if he at least did it to Big Pharma or something. Some is better than the none that Hillary would have done.

          Trump is not natively disposed to take down the 1% the way Bernie was, but he lives and dies on the adulation of his supporters so I expect for that reason he'll take somebody down to keep them cheering.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday March 01 2017, @11:34PM (7 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday March 01 2017, @11:34PM (#473609) Journal

    If impeachment for lying were a thing...

    Tell that to Bill Clinton.

    In other words, you got nothing.

    The constitutional requirement that sitting presidents not receive money and gifts from foreign governments is, in fact, a thing.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 02 2017, @12:19AM (6 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 02 2017, @12:19AM (#473635) Journal

      Tell that to Bill Clinton.

      As I note twice already in this thread, Clinton did more than just lie, he lied in court under oath. That's perjury which is a real world felony.

      The constitutional requirement that sitting presidents not receive money and gifts from foreign governments is, in fact, a thing.

      It's a thing that Trump has to do first in order for it to be a crime.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @02:18AM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @02:18AM (#473678)

        As I note twice already in this thread, Clinton did more than just lie, he lied in court under oath. That's perjury which is a real world felony.

        He lied in response to a question that he should never have been asked.
        That was prosecutorial misconduct.
        Only an autistic idiot would think it appropriate to impeach someone for lying about consensual sex.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:24AM (4 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:24AM (#473732) Journal

          Only an autistic idiot would think it appropriate to impeach someone for lying about consensual sex.

          Lying about consensual sex while under oath in a courtroom. That's what makes it perjury and a felony. There probably have been a few presidents who have lied about such things (particularly, John F. Kennedy) outside of a courtroom and as a result who haven't committed perjury.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:58AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @04:58AM (#473747)

            Well, that's looks like a straight up confirmation that you are indeed on the spectrum, as many of us have suspected for quite a while now.
            Also an admission that you are indeed an idiot.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 02 2017, @10:38AM (2 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 02 2017, @10:38AM (#473795) Journal

              Well, that's looks like a straight up confirmation that you are indeed on the spectrum

              If you want to self-identify as an immature brat, you keep using that insult.

              Also an admission that you are indeed an idiot.

              And yet, you apparently still don't get that lying under oath in a courtroom is a crime. So just maybe your opinion on my intelligence is equally worthless, eh?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @06:28PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 02 2017, @06:28PM (#473981)

                You choose to see it as an insult.
                Says more about you than anyone else.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 03 2017, @04:49AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @04:49AM (#474269) Journal

                  You choose to see it as an insult.

                  And now you're trying to insult my intelligence too. You're not a relevant medical professional making an informed judgment based on a study of my behavior. You're an AC name calling on the internet. Don't you have something productive to do. Handpaint shit on walls maybe?