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If you ever need to strike up a conversation with a group of academics, a surefire way to get them talking is to ask about their graduate training. Where did they train, in what methods, in which lab, under what mentor? People will speak with great pride about their training as an economist, historian, chemist, philosopher, or classicist. If, on the other hand, you need to make a quick exit, try sharing the opinion that undergraduate education should include a lot more vocational training. You'll soon find yourself standing alone or responding to accusations of classism and questions about your commitment to social and racial equality. You might even hear that "training is for dogs," a common refrain in higher education that carries the unpleasant implication that skills-based education is the equivalent of teaching students to sit, stay, and shake hands.
For reasons that are not entirely clear, in the United States training is widely understood to be the end, not the beginning, of an educational journey that leads to a particular job or career. Undergraduates are supposed to get a general education that will prepare them for training, which they will presumably get once they land a job or go to graduate school. Any training that happens before then just doesn't count.
It is because of this belief that general-education requirements are the center of the bachelor's degree and are concentrated in the first two years of a four-year program. The general-education core is what distinguishes the B.A. from a vocational program and makes it more than "just training." It is designed to ensure that all degree holders graduate with a breadth of knowledge in addition to an in-depth understanding of a particular subject area. Students are exposed to a broad range of disciplines and are pushed to think critically about the social, cultural, and historical context in which they live. It is supposed to guarantee that all graduates can write, have a basic understanding of the scientific method, have heard of the Marshall Plan and Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and know that iambic pentameter has something to do with poetry.
While few would challenge the importance of general education, both to students and to a well-functioning democracy, there is good reason to question why it has to come at the beginning of a B.A.—and just how general and theoretical it needs to be. The pyramid structure of the bachelor's degree, which requires that students start with the broad base of general requirements before they specialize, is what makes college unappealing to so many young people.
It doesn't have to be this way. There is no iron law of learning dictating that students must master general theories or be fully versed in a particular historical or cultural context before learning how to do things. Some students will do well under this approach, but there is solid evidence that some students learn better through experience. For these students, theory does not make sense until it is connected to action. Putting a lot of general or theoretical courses on the front end just leaves them disengaged or, even worse, discouraged. They will do better if they start by learning how to master certain tasks or behaviors and then explore the more abstract concepts behind the actions.
-- submitted from IRC
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Kromagv0 on Thursday March 16 2017, @06:10PM (2 children)
Vocational education has lost all respect, even though that's where lots of really essential jobs are.
Even people who are going for a vocational education don't really understand the difference and view it as a joke. Last year I finished taking a series of 3 classes to expand my skill set at the local Vo-Tech (a good quality one that ins't like ITT, DeVry, etc.) and in each class my fellow students would eventually find out that I already had a BS in CS. This would confuse them as the highest degree offered there was an AAS in software engineering or networking so why would I take a class there when I already have a better degree. I would then explain to them that in my degree I took only 2 classes where I learned how to program. While a number of my classes had a programming aspect to them the programming was to learn and work with other concepts that the class was about. Often times we weren't limited to a programming language and could use any one we wanted (the exception was my AI class where everyone got to suffer through LISP). I then tell them that a BS in CS is very much focused on theory so things like actually setting up and configuring network devices, doing forensic analysis on computer, are not covered. The biggest thing that makes the difference clear is the OS course I took and the OS course they took. In mine I learned about the different kernel styles, how OS manage memory and other resources at the low level, they learned how to work with the tool sets in a Windows and Linux environment so that they could work with and install them as sys admins.
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday March 16 2017, @11:23PM (1 child)
The sad truth is that an A.S. from a good community college is the same education as what you'd receive at ITT/DeVry at a fraction of the cost. I've talked to some ITT grads recently and was horrified to find out that they didn't even have SpecAns as part of their education.
The strength of places like ITT and DeVry is in their job-placement programs and I've found ITT grads everywhere I work around here. Unfortunately, ITT just shut down out of nowhere and those who haven't yet finished their degrees are left high and dry, having to either test out at community college or go through school all over again.
There is none of that risk at a decent community college.
(Score: 2) by Kromagv0 on Friday March 17 2017, @03:16PM
Here in Minnesota there is a difference between the public community colleges and the public vocational and technical colleges. The community colleges while they may offer AA, AS, or AAS degrees still don't to the vocational training and as you said don't have job placement services. On the other hand the vo-techs do only vocational and practical skill courses and do have job placement services. So if you want to try out college you go to the community college and get 2 years of a 4 year degree on the cheap and maybe get and associates of arts in your prospective major done and then finish with a BA or BS in it at a 4 year school. If instead you want to become a machinist, electrician, networking technician, mechanic, plumber, general contractor, beautician, graphic designer, etc you go off to the vo-tech and get a certificate or up maybe to an AAS depending on the course. For example here is the offerings at the nearby community college [normandale.edu] for programs while here is the offerings at the nearby vo-tech [dctc.edu] so you end up with very different educations depending on where you go.
Personally I think this is a good thing and while high school teachers and administrators all push the you need a BA or BS because a high school diploma doesn't cut it they are only half right. Not everyone needs BA or BS and most people should not be getting them, but what they do need is an AA, AS, AAS, AFA, or certificate program once they finish high school as a high school diploma basically meas you managed to show up reasonably consistently to some place for the last 13 or so years. What high schools should be doing more of is expanding post secondary programs like what my school had when I was in. If students wanted they could go up to Normandale community college and take classes that would transfer to a 4 year college or go to Dakota County Technical College (DCTC) and start learning a trade. I had a few friends who went to DCTC for the bulk of the junior and senior years and learned a trade like welding, being an electrician, or a mechanic, yet very few people went to Normandale even if they were planning on going to a 4 year school afterwards. It was strange as none of the very top GPA kids went there yet the 3 of us in my senior class (of over 600) who did got a far better education and entered our 4 year schools with junior standing instead of as 0 credit freshmen. The best part was that the school district would pay for you to take summer classes too, which is what you would need to do to enter college as a junior after exiting high school.
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