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posted by on Tuesday March 21 2017, @01:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the they-can-still-screw-over-the-rest-of-the-world dept.

Fraud, scams, and "unfair" terms and conditions all need to be cleaned up on Facebook, Twitter, and Google+, the European Commission has said—warning the US firms that any failure to comply with the order will lead to sanctions.

It comes after the trio of free content ad networks were put on notice in November last year, when Brussels' officials asked the companies to address two areas of concern.

Facebook, Twitter, and Google—all of which are routinely blasted by regulators and lawmakers in Europe—have one month to submit proposals for how they plan to comply with the EU's demands. If their offers come up short against the bloc's regulatory framework, then consumer authorities could threaten to take enforcement action, the commission said.

"Given the growing importance of online social networks it is time to make sure that our strong EU rules, that are there to protect consumers from unfair practices, are complied with in this sector," said Brussels' justice commissioner, Vera Jourová.

"It is not acceptable that EU consumers can only call on a court in California to resolve a dispute. Nor can we accept that users are deprived of their right to withdraw from an online purchase. Social media companies also need to take more responsibility in addressing scams and fraud happening on their platforms."

The commission—citing the Unfair Contract Terms Directive—wants the companies' terms of service to "be brought into conformity with European consumer law."

Source: ArsTechnica


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday March 21 2017, @04:11AM (17 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 21 2017, @04:11AM (#481961) Journal

    C0lo, you may be intentionally missing the point, again!

    Of course I chose to ignore your point! Again!
    It was supposed to address the "sadness of the truth" - which I argue it is the least sad of all other alternatives.
    Any demonstration will need to consider the alternatives (even when they are absurd) and check the "level of sadness" to demonstrate the optimality of one alternative.

    Wonderful people would not up with put a terrible government, they would revolt and replace it

    But you admit that, even if temporary, a situation of "wonderful people with a terrible government" can happen.
    That is, intellectually nauseating as it may be, the situation is not impossible/absurd - thus it worth even practical (as opposed to an "ivory tower" kind) consideration.

    This is a basic premise non-violent resistance, that all power comes from the consent of the ruled, and the ruled always have the option to withhold consent and obedience, rendering any regime powerless. We are seeing this with corporations and copyright, we will see it with Micro$$$oft and Google, and even Faceberg, and we will see it with the Trump administration. Unless, that is, people deserve something less, um, free and brave?

    The people let (for various reasons) two powers - govt and corpocracy - gain more and more control over their life.
    The resulted situation is a fertile ground to explore why this is wrong, learn the lessons and to pass them to the future generations after correcting it (large grin).

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
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  • (Score: 1) by aristarchus on Tuesday March 21 2017, @06:58AM (5 children)

    by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 21 2017, @06:58AM (#481990) Journal

    It was supposed to address the "sadness of the truth" - which I argue it is the least sad of all other alternatives.
    Any demonstration will need to consider the alternatives (even when they are absurd) and check the "level of sadness" to demonstrate the optimality of one alternative.

    Less optimal, but less sad. If we think that tyrants and dictators and people with Orange Comb-overs can take power an rule over otherwise normal people, that would be sad, but not as sad if those people did not have to allow such a dictatorship. So you see, absolute power is not so sad as power that is generated by the consent of the governed. Do you think the Kim dynasty in North Korea is legitimate? Maybe not, but the people there certainly think it is, and so they get the government they deserve, the one that is starving them to death. They do not have to accept it. But they do. That is the sad.

      This is completely off the mark here, but stick with me. You know the myth of Oedipus? Yes, the son of Thebes in ancient Greece! As the story goes, when he was born, his parents inquired of the Temple at Delphi what would become of him. The Oracle said: "He will kill his father, and marry his mother." Not like becoming a Doctor or a Laywer, or the King of Thebes! So they had him carted off by a shephard to be abandoned in the mountains. Infanticide used to be very much more common, until idiots like Runaway started to push themselves all up in to how priests could get willing altar boys. . .

    But, of course, Oedipus did not die! Found by a shepherd from the other side of the mountains, the Corinth side, where the king and queen had been trying to have a baby with no success. But here was one that was just being thrown away, and the only damage was where his heels had been pierced, in order to tie them together and make him easier to carry. But enough of that.

    Oedipus is adopted by the King and Queen of Corinth. But as is often the case in situations like this, the figure out how to make babies on their own! Or, at least, it works, now. So Oedipus ends up with a bunch of younger siblings. And they do what siblings do, they taunt: you are not really part of this family, you're weird, you must have been adopted!" Ah, siblings, the cruelest and most loving of all people. But it moves Oedipus to go to the oracle at Delphi again, where he asks: "Are my parents my real parents?" The Oracle responds: "You will kill your father and marry your mother." Oedipus does not think this is a good thing.

    OK, here is the point, and it is just like Anthropogenic Global Warming, for those keeping score. Oedipus thinks he is smart enough to prevent the Oracle's prophecy from coming true. "All I have to do," he thinks., "is never go home! Then the prophecy can never come true!" Yes, Oedipus, one smart cookie, smarter than khallow, smarter than Runaway, and need I go on?

    So, what happens? The young man from Corinth sets out down the road, to Thebes. He meets a chariot that will not yield the right of way, we end up with a road rage incidence in Pre-historic Greece. You know who the guy was. Oedipus didn't, at this point. Later he will. This is why we call it "tragedy". There is a Sphinx, a riddle, and Oedipus gets to marry the Queen of Thebes. Prophecy fulfilled.

    But that is not the point of the tragedy. The point is not that fate is inescapable, that your ultimate doom awaits you no matter what you do. It is more insidious, and sadder, than that. The point of Greek tragedy is that precisely by attempting to avoid your fate, you become the instrument of your fate: It is ALL Oedipus' own fault that he killed his father and married his own mother! (The four kids they had, I will leave to another time, but Antigone Rules, y'all)

      So it may be sad that good people are oppressed, but the point is that if they are able to be oppressed, they are not good people, and thus are the instruments of their own oppression. That is much more sad than if such injustice could happen by accident, or by a Real Estate Developer being elected President.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday March 21 2017, @09:52AM (4 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 21 2017, @09:52AM (#482021) Journal

      So it may be sad that good people are oppressed, but the point is that if they are able to be oppressed, they are not good people

      Really? And this is a pure logical, thus inexorable, conclusion of the Oedipus tragedy, eh?

      The US people killed their father and fu... ummm... married their mother and procreated a petty Agent Orange wannabe dictator; all the while being busy trying to be safe from terrorism, hating to pay taxes and wasting their time watching "Transformers", attending comicons and consumer electronics shows, posting their "likes" on FaeceBook and brainfarts on Twitter... And all of these makes them "not good people", is that's what you say?

      Magister, better give a definition of "good people" before engage in an argumentation, lest you commit the "No True Scotsman" sin.
      Maybe I'm wrong, but your debating line seems to be based on the definition of "Good people vote as I think is good".
      While I may agree with your electoral preferences (thanks God I don't need to agree and neither to disagree with them), but sure as hell I'm not going to accept an argumentation based on the Oedipus tragedy, no matter how witty and grammatically correct such an argumentation would come (not that I'll refrain from enjoying the style even if still refusing the message as baseless).

      And last... hypothesize that, somehow, you would manage to convince a significant enough number of people to follow you - will your followers, convinced by Oedipus tragedy to not vote Orange, be better (as in "gooder") than the followers of Agent Orange which were convinced by the "fake news" argumentation?
      Because the way it came, both argumentation reduce to "Trust me" (one: "Because I'm witty and know heaps about history and culture"; the other "Because I'm a deal maker, tax breaker and too sexy for my pus.. er, cat, too sexy for my hat")

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @01:27PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @01:27PM (#482094)

        The US people killed their father and fu... ummm... married their mother

        More like grabbed her by the pussy.

        I think Aristarchus' definition of "good person" here is more like vigilance vs. acceptance. There was an old dude who liked to smoke weed and grab his slaves by the pussy that wrote, "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."

        If one accepts tyranny, then who could possibly help them? Democracy can't be violently imposed (not to summon the AnCap fellow). If one does not accept tyranny, then it's possible meet violent force with violent force. Something like that inspiring speech delivered by Mel Gibson's William Wallace, before he was captured and executed. When you're old and dying in your bed, are you going to be as happy with your life if you rolled over and accepted tyranny as you would be dying in glorious battle fighting for the right to live unmolested?

        Personally, at least, I take the glorious battle option, if it comes to that with Agent Orange (I like that nickname!). Though it's been sort of difficult realizing I let myself get so out of shape I need to completely retrain my body. Googmytwitface at least leave me in peace when I don't wish to avail myself of their services. The Orange One... here's hoping it doesn't come to FEMA concentration camps. Republicans can haul my cold, dead corpse to a concentration camp if that's where their god thinks I should be.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 21 2017, @03:28PM (2 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 21 2017, @03:28PM (#482184) Journal

          I think Aristarchus' definition of "good person" here is more like vigilance vs. acceptance.

          Cool.

          Although... here's one nagging fact: Agent Orange unexpectedly won while still playing by the (letter of the) rules; this means somehow he got elected, vigilance in regards with the respect/observation of the rules would not have prevented the outcome.

          So... vigilance against what/who? And when was the best moment... ummm.... vigorous vigilant actions where required?

          There was an old dude who liked to smoke weed and grab his slaves by the pussy that wrote, "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."

          That's one of the fathers they "killed" by forgetting about him in their daily sheepish consumption.

          If one accepts tyranny, then who could possibly help them?

          So far, USA didn't go quite all the way to tyranny. Even if only to the fact that the two... umm... "masters" (political creatures and corporations) have an uneasy love-hate relation but maintain their individuality and drive/interests.

          I'd say the USA people were stupidly tricked in accepting subservience. If rephrasing your question to fit this description, my answer would be:
          "For certain, stupidity is NOT cured by demagogy, no matter how witty or cultured. Teaching or creating critical thinking abilities may be a start".

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday March 23 2017, @06:32AM (1 child)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday March 23 2017, @06:32AM (#483107) Journal

            c0lo, in his near infinite wisdom, says:

            "For certain, stupidity is NOT cured by demagogy, no matter how witty or cultured. Teaching or creating critical thinking abilities may be a start".

            And Aristarchus, in his much below infinite pedantry, has to point out that the word is "demagogery"! From the Greek,(duh), δῆμος, and also the Greek, lead: άγω, so δημαγωγός, leader of the people. This term has developed negative connotations that I think it does not deserve, because I think, that even Trump voters cannot be lead into the black hole that is Paul Ryan's Ayn Randian universe where no one but the rich, and Ayn Rand, get health care, because that is just how the chips, the Koch chips, have fallen. As the great American demagogue said, (no, it is not Donald, his hands are too small), "You can fool some of the people all the time, [Ironically, we call these people "Republicans" today!], and you can fool all of the people some of the time [today we refer to this as "Ronald Reagan"], but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time!" This is, of course, what Trump is counting on. But this is how America has improved on Greek democracy; it is not possible for a clown like Trump to lead the entire nation into something so stupid as attacking Poland. What? He just tweeted that? Oh My God, and My God Is Not Polish, or MGINP, for short, for demagogic purposes. Oh, just forget the whole thing. Paul Ryan for ex-congressman. Wisconsin, seriously, CheeseHeads is one thing, but this idiot? Primary him, if you want the Republican party to live! And even if you don't! Win-win situation! Seriously.

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:18AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:18AM (#483175) Journal

              As the great American demagogue said, (no, it is not Donald, his hands are too small), "You can fool some of the people all the time, [Ironically, we call these people "Republicans" today!], and you can fool all of the people some of the time [today we refer to this as "Ronald Reagan"], but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time!"

              Magister, you convinced me that demagoguery, at its peak, it truly an art form. A form, that is... but a form which allows the spectator to recognize it as her/his own and then, imperfect as human are, fill it with her/his own content.
              It is, if you allow me a metaphor, like an artful colouring book - everyone can fill in the outlines their own choice of colours and the result will look good for her/him. Maybe it will look good for others with the same taste in colour matching, but certainly not appreciated by all.

              At least, in the part above, you made it easy for me to scrap away your choice of colours and recognize the outline as drawn by the original demagogue.

              But this is how America has improved on Greek democracy; it is not possible for a clown like Trump to lead the entire nation into something so stupid as attacking Poland. What? He just tweeted that? Oh My God, and My God Is Not Polish, or MGINP, for short, for demagogic purposes. Oh, just forget the whole thing. Paul Ryan for ex-congressman. Wisconsin, seriously, CheeseHeads is one thing, but this idiot? Primary him, if you want the Republican party to live! And even if you don't! Win-win situation! Seriously.

              Unfortunately, on this picture, the colours seeped so much that the outline (if there was one) is no longer visible to me.
              I can appreciate the colourful exuberance of the result, but I can get no coherent message from the picture.

              ---
              (english language is crazy: "demagogic purposes" is correct, but "demagogy" is flawed. I'm left wondering why "demagoguerical purposes" is flawed - grin)

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 2, Informative) by anubi on Tuesday March 21 2017, @07:01AM (10 children)

    by anubi (2828) on Tuesday March 21 2017, @07:01AM (#481992) Journal

    Personally, I just don't wanna have to open the fourth box of freedom.

    Its a big pain in the ass and very destructive.

    But it *will* get the job done.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @07:58AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @07:58AM (#482002)

      But it *will* get the job done.

      Pay attention. The argument here is that it will not. The South will lose again. Beer Hall Putschs are mostly beer. And besides, Angelina Jolie has the fourth box. Pandora? Blue people? Do you know what the hell you are talking about?

      • (Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday March 21 2017, @09:23AM (5 children)

        by anubi (2828) on Tuesday March 21 2017, @09:23AM (#482017) Journal

        I was of the understanding that the fourth box of freedom would likely come into play when the 99%'ers have had it up to here with the 1%'ers... and have to do what the French did in order to reset the system.

        --
        "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @10:37AM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @10:37AM (#482036)

          Except that the French government at that time had no tanks, no drones, no fighter jets, …

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 21 2017, @11:13AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 21 2017, @11:13AM (#482046) Journal

            Yes. And the defence coprorations will accept a baseless coinage in exchange for their drones and arms, while the govt will be busy eradicating their very own source of income.

            Do you think the corporations are that stupid?

            (this letting aside that the army - which operate the drones - is made in it's very large majority from 99-percenters).

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday March 21 2017, @02:21PM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 21 2017, @02:21PM (#482143) Journal

            Why do you presume that the Army, Navy (Marines), and Air Force will act as one? Why do you presume that in the event of revolution, all active and veteran members of the armed forces will simply obey the government?

            As for tanks - there were sappers before there were tanks. Satchel charges can, and do, take tanks out. Even better, there are shoulder launched rockets today that will take out most tanks. The Abrams is a tough nut to crack, but it can be opened like any other nut. Drones - we're reading already about how easy it is to hack into a drone. The Iranians have claimed to take one (or more) of our military drones. If they can do it, we can do it. Even if they can't do it, we can do it. Fighter jets. You are still presuming that active duty pilots are willing to climb into the cockpit, and fly off to kill their own countrymen. But, beyond that presumption, fighter jets can be brought down with shoulder fired missiles.

            You can't possibly know how things will fall out in a revolution. No one expected Robert E. Lee to resign his commission in the US Army, and return to his home state of Virginia when the shit hit the fan.

            The next time the shit hits the fan, you better wait awhile before making bets on the outcome.

            • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday March 21 2017, @10:04PM

              by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday March 21 2017, @10:04PM (#482428)

              Conspiracy theorists keep forgetting that those who would have to physically fight the people are not part of the 1%, but typically of the lower classes.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @09:23PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @09:23PM (#482406)

            You are thinking of the Battle of Algiers. The Levee en Masse that put and end to a stupid colonial war.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 21 2017, @11:23AM (2 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 21 2017, @11:23AM (#482049) Journal

      Personally, I just don't wanna have to open the fourth box of freedom.

      The way I understand, you down-scaled and are still able to live a non-destitute life.
      If so, I reckon you are already doing your bit - refraining as much as possible from contributing to the profit of 1-percenters. If you are able to teach others how to manage to do the same, it would be even better.

      I might be wrong, though, and maybe the fourth box will turn out as necessary.
      But it's not today and... to slide on the manner of magister aristarchus and allude to ancient stories ... "The king might die. The horse might die. I might die. And, who knows? Maybe the horse will sing."

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 1) by anubi on Wednesday March 22 2017, @11:03AM (1 child)

        by anubi (2828) on Wednesday March 22 2017, @11:03AM (#482642) Journal

        You have me pretty well figured out, c0lo... the closest thing I felt was the plight of Engineer Frank Grimes on the TV series "The Simpsons".

        I have talked to many engineers with the same story. "burnout". I still love to do this stuff, but being forced to do it incorrectly just so someone else can make a quick buck was so disgusting to me that I tried every way I knew to isolate myself from the frustration. I have had it with the grape and cucumber experiment. I have had it with being told to do things I know won't end well - while I get ridiculed for hanging onto my ethics and the other gets promoted for their business acumen.

        I stated earlier on these forums about some religious training I had in childhood, one of which was one of my childhood idols: the story of Joseph, and how he rose to second in command in Egypt because he was truthful with the King. Yet, it seemed when I tried to "do the right thing", I would be marginalized, told I was a perfectionist, only to watch someone else do a real quickie-job and cut some corners I knew it would be risky to cut - while the business types would look on and say "the prototype works", while I knew the prototype was marginal, and the next run of IC's may well not work ( marginal stability - they were driving capacitive loads without the correct compensation. ), and on another run, they were using risky methods for connecting to lithium 18650 cells.

        These investor groups and business types they front... geez, just like those trucking forums I frequent, where people are afraid to take their vehicles to the name-brand chain service shops because they can no longer trust them to put the correct fluids in the correct hole.

        Its a cognitive dissonance thing for me. As a kid, I seemed to have this knack of finding technical errors in my science books, and I would bring them up in class. I got a *lot* of brownie points for doing so. Then, at the workplace, I find stuff that should NOT go to production, and I get marginalized.

        You know.... the same kind of disdain we all have for grammar-nazis on these forums.

        I will not grammar-nazi on these forums unless I found the result to be an amusing pun. Typos happen to everyone, and I am just as liable to have my hands get out of sync with my brain as anyone.

        But if I see an error going to be replicated on the production line, especially a dangerous error, I try to stop it, but I do not have the power to stop the business types who want to gamble the peril won't happen. Its gotten so I just have to wince and accept it, knowing full good and well what I see the most likely outcome.

        I see a lot of kindred spirits on this site, also forced to do poorly considered things of very complex nature. Turning perfectly good raw material into junk.

        I simply could no longer take being subordinated to non-technical managers who had taken cookie-cutter leadership classes from those traveling seminar-givers. I could not sign on those lines underprinted with the words "responsible engineer" with a straight face. I was not an engineer; I was an order-taker. A subordinate. My degree seemingly only toilet paper for keeping executive asses clean, to be acquired from the least-cost supplier.

        Yes, I figured I would much rather live much lower on the salary curve than have to put up with the demeaning stuff of having to work under some manager type whose sole interest is in making a quick buck and bonus. If I can not work directly *with* the guy running the place, I have no business there. I simply cannot function with a heavy layer of insulation between me and the man who needs my technical skills.

        --
        "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday March 22 2017, @12:41PM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 22 2017, @12:41PM (#482676) Journal

          Mate, the age of makers started a while ago.
          Happened outside corporations, even if they try to ride it and corner it with their proprietary sensors and dev boards (even instructables.com is stewarded by Autocad with the hope their cad tools will get exposure). No matter, things like RasPi and Arduino are well established (so well that you can get cheap chinese clones that work), classic IC-es are cheaper than a bread-loaf, everybody and their dog can prototype, etc.

          Help those hobby makers with the basics if you can afford the spare time. Here, an example: switch two mosfets in series the simplest way possible using a 5V input. Can you generalize for X mosfets? (e.g. switch 180V DC using 4 or 5 of 50V Vds(max) mosfets).

          Granted, it may not be as heroic as IC design, but it will be useful for lots of makers. And even more useful because the ones that will stick with making are people who will (perhaps only implicitly) tell the corp wannabe-masters "Fuck off, I don't need you, I can make my own - crude, ugly but it works".
          People who will start thinking on their own and get enough mental exercise and habit to see beyond "belief driven life"; who will likely answer to anyone telling them "Believe me" with "Fuck off, I can think on my own".
          People who may reach a point in which they'll stop chasing a hypnotically induced "american dream", look around and say "You know? Maybe I can feed myself on my own, get my own electricity, insulate my dwelling, etc - cover my basic necessities without spitting blood because some MBA-trained monkey needs to answer to the next shareholder meeting". Sure, they'll buy cheap chinese solar panels and buck-boost converters (and second-hand Ford vans), but it is you that said currently designed gadgets have enough corners cut to not make such a big difference in quality.
          (the irony! It is the corps that showed that "Good enough" may/can work. If the makers learn that "Good enough" is also simple enough[**] they themselves can do it, then this is a lesson the corps may very well regret teaching others)

          Get enough of them and maybe the society will have a chance to get out from the downward spiral.

          I don't know if the above will happen, but I think it worth a try.

          ---

          [**] one can even DIY a scanning tunneling microscope [dberard.com] with materials bought from the hardware store and amazon/ebay.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford