SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Mayo Clinic, one of the country's top hospitals, is in the midst of controversy after its CEO said that the elite medical facility would prioritize the care of patients with private health insurance over those with Medicare and Medicaid.
The prioritization by the Rochester, MN-headquartered medical practice was recently revealed by the Minneapolis Star Tribune. And it has quickly drawn out some sharp critics—as well as sympathizers.
In a statement to the Minnesota Post Bulletin, Dr. Gerard Anderson, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Hospital Finance and Management, compared the prioritization to policies seen in developing countries. "This is what happens in many low-income countries. The health system is organized to give the most affluent preference in receiving health care," he wrote.
Likewise, Minnesota Department of Human Services Commissioner Emily Piper, expressed surprise and concern by the statements of Mayo's CEO, Dr. John Noseworthy. "Fundamentally, it's our expectation at DHS that Mayo Clinic will serve our enrollees in public programs on an equal standing with any other Minnesotan that walks in their door," she said. "We have a lot of questions for Mayo Clinic about how and if and through what process this directive from Dr. Noseworthy is being implemented across their health system."
Specifically, Noseworthy said in a video to Mayo employees late last year:
We're asking... if the patient has commercial insurance, or they're Medicaid or Medicare patients and they're equal, that we prioritize the commercial insured patients enough so... we can be financially strong at the end of the year.
In statements, Mayo has confirmed Noseworthy's prioritization and added that about 50 percent of its patients are beneficiaries of government programs. "Balancing payer mix is complex and isn't unique to Mayo Clinic. It affects much of the industry, but it's often not talked about. That's why we feel it is important to talk transparently about these complex issues with our staff."
Source: Ars Technica
(Score: 5, Interesting) by SunTzuWarmaster on Tuesday March 21 2017, @05:26PM (21 children)
The problem, in short, is that healthcare is expensive in the USA. In addition to being expensive, it doesn't actually appear to *do* very much, considering life expectancy among the US and Cuba is effectively equal. The US spends ~18% of GDP on healthcare, and Cuba spends ~10%.
In response to this, the US Government has launched a program where the mostly-for-old-people Government-paid healthcare (Medicare and Medicaid) will simply start paying less to healthcare providers. The system of how much less, on what services, under what circumstances, etc. is complicated, but the end result is the same: less. In response, private industry is sending those people to the back of the line, and it isn't hard to see the writing on the wall: eventually they aren't in line altogether and Government-paid healthcare recipients don't have access to the best care.
The US has laws that no one can be refused emergency services (which has significant influence over our healthcare/insurance system/payments), but these laws do not particularly apply to complex operations such as those that the Mayo clinic performs (heart transplants, cancer treatments) and cannot be performed as emergency room procedures.
Your response to this change is likely representative of your political ideology. Do you believe that all (especially elderly) citizens should have access to the best healthcare (regardless of price) ? Do you believe that the free market should determine who has access to healthcare (ie. only those with means) ? America is currently caught up in the debate over whether the Government should ensure the health of its citizens. Some believe that it is the responsibility of the Government (and people should be taxed in order to provide for the general health of the nation), while others believe in personal responsibility (people are free to make their own decisions, some of which will kill them slowly/painfully). Further - if the Government is responsible for its citizen's health, and it is dramatically cheaper to prevent than treat, where do you draw the line (mandatory root canals? ban soda? forced marches?) ?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by VLM on Tuesday March 21 2017, @05:41PM (16 children)
Further - if the Government is responsible for its citizen's health, and it is dramatically cheaper to prevent than treat, where do you draw the line (mandatory root canals? ban soda? forced marches?) ?
Adding to the complexity "about half" of all health expenditures are in the last six months of life. Its pretty easy to keep an average 18 year old alive aside from misadventure trauma care, but when someone's in decline the health care vultures descend, because, hey, they gotta eat and old people are easy prey for money. I've seen some real shark like behavior on elderly relatives. Oh you dying of lung cancer? You have prescription vision coverage? I'll make sure you go out with perfect vision and new glasses. What else can I remember... I had a great great aunt-in-law (complicated, I donno maybe thats a cousin?) who was on her way out with terminal metastasized intestinal cancer so naturally they spent bazillions of dollars on fixing her lung failure with oxygen enrichment and lots of drugs, you know, so the lung failure from smoking for 60 years doesn't kill her before the cancer gets her, which seemed kinda dumb, brutal actually as it didn't appear very comfortable.
That explains why the lifespan in Cuba and the USA are about the same, if the difference between "treating" pancreatic cancer and "not treating" is like $1M and about three months, in Cuba they just die 3 months earlier which is lost in the noise whereas in the USA the right people just became $1M richer.
Meanwhile the government encourages high wages by supporting the AMA cartel, while providing most services to people about to die means you have like poor kids with tooth problems because there's no money for dentistry because a near majority of money goes to almost dead people. Hey you might have terminal brain cancer but at least your new dentures only have to last three months har har har. Thats the american way.
(Score: 0, Informative) by edIII on Tuesday March 21 2017, @06:31PM (15 children)
Stop lying mother fucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS FAKE NEWS. THIS IS A FUCKING LIE. Cuba TREATS its citizens 1 trillion times better than the U.S, and NOOOOOOOOOOO, it does NOT let its citizens die of cancer.
Cuba is recognized by the W.H.O for its great efforts, and pertinently, its cancer treatment programs. Stop saying Cuba doesn't do anything for cancer patients. It most certainly does.
I know it's convenient for you White Nationalists to trot out a 3rd world pinko commie hell hole to use in your arguments, but Cuba didn't fucking cooperate for the last 50 years. They actually created a medical system that is the envy of the world.
Deal with the truth mother fucker!
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @07:28PM (1 child)
Yeah, Cuba must be awesome. That's why so many US citizens defect there.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:06PM
Yeah, you're right. They tend to go north to Canada instead.
Now, I'm not an expert on Canada, but I assume that Americans not emigrating to Cuba and instead emigrating to Canada must mean that Canada also avoided the horrors of socialized medicine.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @07:41PM (1 child)
And in this thread, we have VLM standing in front of edIII with the "edIII Programmer's Reference Manual" pressing edIII's buttons LIKE. A. FUCKING. BOSS.
(Score: 3, Informative) by edIII on Tuesday March 21 2017, @10:14PM
Spreading lies and misinformation from the White Nationalist playbook in order to further those lies for purposes against our greater interests is not pressing buttons. It is something that every good person should stand up and fight. I understand the juvenile, monkey-poo-throwin' entertainment you get from reducing it to a game of pressing emotional buttons, but this does not qualify.
Those are outright lies. It's about time we start standing up and resisting in every way, shape, and form we can. That begins by not being complacent, and confronting lying bigotry
VLM fucking knows better. He's let his hate and fear control him now in order to spew lies and misinformation. Oh, excuse me.... alternative facts.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Troll) by linkdude64 on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:11PM (2 children)
"Cuba does NOT let its citizens die of cancer."
This is what leftists actually believe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:35PM
I guess you're one of those idiots that doesn't let facts get in the way of your beliefs...
I'm gonna give you the benefit of a doubt and say that you were viewing the statement as "no one dies from cancer in Cuba" which would be a monumentally ignorant statement. However, that is not how it was meant and you should work on your critical thinking skills if that is your interpretation.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday March 21 2017, @10:36PM
You mean the truth? Uhhh, yeah. I tend to believe something that is backed up with evidence, and promulgated by credentialed and respected people.... Like the World Health Organization.
I'm not Leftist fuckface, but let's go with that as your statement:
"Leftists believe that Cuba has ability, and uses said abilities, to treat their citizens that have cancer"
Yes. Many people believe this is true. Not just Leftists, but Chinese people, Russian people, people in Europe, people walking through Indonesia... because they aren't ignorant White Nationalist bigoted dickheads like you. They can read and comprehend reports like this, ingest information from medical journals, and basically learn the truth about medicine in Cuba beyond the ignorant butthurt glasses that American bravado and politics demands that you wear.
Or.... were you just playing the Grammar Nazi today and taking my statement as an absolute in a weak and pathetic attempt to make a counter argument very similar to a monkey throwing poo? ;)
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:34PM (3 children)
I believe we've sparred over this topic before.
for you White Nationalists to trot out a 3rd world pinko commie hell hole to use in your arguments
I don't think you're seeing the big picture.
Say I paint a picture that if they suck, they're still much better than our system, overall. Then you get triggered again and point out they're not that bad, they're like 22% better than I claim, therefore I'm entirely wrong. But think about it, because if my pessimistic engineering estimate shows them superior, then your rather... optimistic engineering estimate will none the less continue to show them superior. Rather than disproving my point all you're doing is calling attention to my rather pessimistic estimate probably being more accurate than I claim. And you're pointing out your... displeasure with my politics, which you might think makes my idea look bad when all it does is make it look like bipartisan support. Why the only thing we can fight about is how much more efficient Cuba is as providing care per dollar, merely lots or a whole heck of a lot.
I will admit its a mistake for me to use Cuban docs as a comparison because medical is Cuba's secret sauce its their "silicon valley" its their "nokia" or whatever. Cuban docs are pretty legendary and their medical field is a major export for Cuba. I should be comparing to a truly typical and random tropical medical community, El Salvadoran docs perhaps. My argument would still be pretty strong, just you wouldn't be as triggered.
Stop saying Cuba doesn't do anything for cancer patients. It most certainly does.
While spending about half the money. They're efficient. They don't have the same material supplies we do so clearly their best work can't be as good as our best... unaffordable... work.
a 3rd world pinko commie hell hole ... Cuba didn't fucking cooperate for the last 50 years.
You might find this hard to believe, but nationalist types kinda like Cuba. As a people they're tough and effective and put up with a lot of BS for decades and just keep doing the impossible year after year. You see, a neocon sees a place like that and wants military action. A leftie sees a place like that and wants them all to immigrate to the US to vote democrat. A nationalist sees a nation of tough effective cool people and as long as they stay in their nation and we (including our military) stay in our nation aside from recreational vacationing that's a pretty respectable country. They do their own thing and the rest of the planet can F itself and a neocon sees that as justification for drone bombing, a lefty sees that as justification for mass immigration, and a nationalist sees that as a respectable nation worth visiting someday. I like the idea of there being a strong Cuba nation over there that we're not bombing and they're not invading us. Only nationalists are live and let live like that. The neocon right and the american want to use them as pawns, I just want to take a vacation there, smoke a cigar or two, eat one of those cubano sandwiches....
(Score: 2, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday March 21 2017, @10:27PM (2 children)
No, fuck you. You own your bigotry today.
What you SAID was that Cuba DID NOT treat cancer and LET THEM DIE, and this was the basis for whatever White Nationlists argument you were making today. You denigrated Cuba because it was useful to you, and spared the rest of us anything close to the truth. That truth being, medical is far too fucking expensive in the United States. Meaning, they're people who literally get rich off our suffering for no other reason, but to provide them profit. Not the costs of the drug/treatment being too high, but just the pure profit. You wish to lead us to believe that Cuba was spending less because it was delivering less. That's a flat out fucking lie, and I believe I've called you on it before, and put out links to the W.H.O to receive real information other than your bigotry.
You can stop at "I will admit its a mistake". Compare whatever the fuck you want, and my "trigger" is just you lying. That's it. Putting out misinformation like that in order to continue to prop up our medical system as valid. It's fucking bullshit, and you're a fucking liar.
Compare away! Just use the fucking truth for once.
Awww, the White Nationalist gets soft. Is part of the bullshit that these people deal with is people like you saying they don't care for their fellow brothers and sisters that get cancer? That just let them die to save money? That, while noble tropical savages, they still don't have the strength and moral fortitude to care for each other?
THAT bullshit?
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 22 2017, @01:53AM
Special little snowflakes... when called out on their shit they reverse and say the opposite. They are mentally handicapped by a lifetime of paradoxical beliefs. Their education and training makes them smart, their sheer exposure to cultural bias and emotional beliefs (dey tooker jerrrbs) make sit impossible for them to use critical thinking. Their left brain is fighting with their right brain, and sadly it takes a monumental effort for logic to win against emotion.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 22 2017, @12:23PM
they still don't have the strength and moral fortitude to care for each other?
LOL you seem to be implying all you need for medical care is the correct beliefs. It seems to take money and gear sometimes.
If you need a MRI, and until recently the only way to export a MRI to Cuba due to weird US law was to commit a felony, well, you can wish all you want you aren't getting a MRI in Cuba. Or if they need $200K for some exotic cancer drug, and they don't have $200K, then they aren't getting the $200K cancer drug no matter how nice their intentions are. Things are slightly better now and there is the whole rest of the world willing to trade with Cuba even if the USA won't, but its still a problem.
(Score: 3, Informative) by SunTzuWarmaster on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:45PM (3 children)
Fine - let's pick another country then (all countries are w/in 3 years of the US):
South Korea (7%)
Finland (9%)
Slovenia (8.7% of GDP)
USA (18%) ----------------
Chile (7% GDP)
Czech Republic (7.5% of GDP)
Poland (6.8%)
One of these things doesn't look like the other. Cuba appears to have a good medical system - roughly equivalent to Finland, Poland, Chile, and the US. The spend, as a percentage of GDP, a similar amount to the countries against which they are ranked. The US, per person, spends between double and triple what everyone else pays.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:59PM (2 children)
One of these things doesn't look like the other.
The one thats 2 or 3 times higher has corn syrup.
Think about the variety of diet, in that list you got people eating dogs (not hot, the "woof" type), soy, pickled fish, weird cheeses, tons of spicy delicious meat, American heartland trad sunday dinner stuff like pork roasts, lots of delicious beer, and interesting potatoe dishes. Thats like everything.
Like is there anything not on that list that people eat... oh yeah... the one that has 2 to 3 times the medical cost consumes like a gallon of HFCS per week.
I'm just sayin... yeah I know its not just food intake, but ...
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 22 2017, @12:19AM
> The one thats 2 or 3 times higher has corn syrup.
And that is the quality of your thinking.
The corn syrup conspiracy. lol
You spend all that time spewing bullshit to puff yourself up but when it comes down to dealing with hard facts, you go with random bullshit because all you've got is sophistry. You nazis are all alike, completely vapid versions of all the things you hate.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by dry on Wednesday March 22 2017, @02:23AM
Lots of Canadian food is imported from the States, including stuff with HFCS. Unluckily maple syrup is just too expensive to consume regularly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @06:12PM
Some believe that it is the responsibility of the Government, while others believe in personal responsibility
Note that the latter group are typically unknowing members of the former group.
Just ask them if they are willing to start paying income tax on their employer-paid health insurance premiums, just like I have to pay on the income I use to purchase insurance on the open market. And don't even get me started about all the people who are on Obamacare and don't know it, "keep the government out of my medicare!" [slate.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:19PM
Somebody watches too many Michael Moore films.
However, you (and he) are right in this circumstance - the US healthcare system spends too much for too little benefit to the broader population. We've developed some miraculous technologies, but most of the time they're moot.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:28PM (1 child)
" Do you believe that all (especially elderly) citizens should have access to the best healthcare (regardless of price) ?"
Completely willing to be the inhumane unforgiveable literally-worse-than-a-genocidal-mass-murderer and say NO, the best healthcare services, technologies, and other resources should be directed to populations which will most greatly benefit from them.
Here's an elementary moral dillema: You have a choice: Kill 1 person or kill 100. You are advocating that they are equally bad, because you have no common sense.
No, the extremely elderly do not deserve the best. They surely deserve to be in as little pain as possible, but remaining less than half-cognizant hooked up to million dollar a day machines drugged to hell and back only to keep them alive for another week (a cruel existence in itself) is not doing much for anyone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 21 2017, @08:37PM
See, you criticize a system you don't even have the most basic understanding of. Countries with socialized healthcare prioritize patients based on need, basically what you're advocating for. The current system in the US is the one where we save 1 person and kill 100.