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posted by Fnord666 on Monday April 03 2017, @08:28PM   Printer-friendly
from the sudden-outbreak-of-common-sense dept.

An Anonymous Coward writes:

Camden, New Jersey is a very low income neighborhood. According to this NY Times article, until recently it had typical low income policing--heavy on corruption and violence and low on compassion.

But now they have a new chief and things have changed --

"Handing a $250 ticket to someone who is making $13,000 a year" — around the per capita income in the city — "can be life altering," Chief Thomson said in an interview last year, noting that it can make car insurance unaffordable or result in the loss of a driver's license. "Taxing a poor community is not going to make it stronger."

Handling more vehicle stops with a warning, rather than a ticket, is one element of Chief Thomson's new approach, which, for lack of another name, might be called the Hippocratic ethos of policing: Minimize harm, and try to save lives.

Officers are trained to hold their fire when possible, especially when confronting people wielding knives and showing signs of mental illness, and to engage them in conversation when commands of "drop the knife" don't work. This sometimes requires backing up to a safer distance. Or relying on patience rather than anything on an officer's gun belt.

While not out of the woods yet, it sounds like there is hope for Camden and maybe it won't just continue to be written off as a war zone.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Monday April 03 2017, @08:37PM (20 children)

    by edIII (791) on Monday April 03 2017, @08:37PM (#488356)

    I'm glad it's April 3rd. This is certainly a start on the road back to Mayberry. Treating people with compassion and empathy, plus engaging in communication is the way to heal the relationship between the police and the community. Previously it had been cops running around like scared pussies gunning down teenage boys in the back. This is certainly a different paradigm being put forth.

    Not treating tickets as an income stream, but evaluating how they truly impact the community is also a cause for enthusiasm here.

    Somebody needs to send this chief a Hallmark card.

    --
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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @08:55PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @08:55PM (#488365)

    But wheeeere's the personal responsibility? You are just encouraging the criminals.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:01PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:01PM (#488408)

      I think they just staple it to their bootstraps which kills two poor people with one stone!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:27PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:27PM (#488417)

      But wheeeere's the personal responsibility?

      Republicans got this!

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @09:50PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @09:50PM (#488402)

    This isn't inherently wrong. Suppose the person escapes, then goes on to kill and rape and maim and torture. Cops are hired because we want that shit stopped. Back, front, side... it doesn't matter where the bullets go.

    It is good to be less trigger-happy. It is good to make a strong attempt to have people face trial in a courthouse. It is good to have accountability for shootings, generally including video. It is good to try to talk people into surrendering. It is good to wait, relying on hunger and sleepiness instead of going in with flash-bang grenades and M-4 rifles.

    That said, running from the cops means you welcome getting shot. We pay the cops to do that. It's all on you when it happens -- you made the choice to run while suspected of a crime. Fortunately, those who get shot are almost never fine upstanding citizens with bright futures. Some people need killing.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @09:59PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @09:59PM (#488406)

      What planet are you from?

      That said, running from the cops means you welcome getting shot.

      Running at someone pointing a gun suggests that you want to get shot. Running away from someone pointing a gun suggests that you don't want to be shot.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:07AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:07AM (#488447)

        Any response other than freezing in place and obeying orders: yes, you are willing to get shot.

        Running toward the cop is obvious. You're trying to kill him. You need to die ASAP.

        Running away means that you prefer to be out on the streets committing crimes. Jail would limit you to hurting cellmates and the occasional distracted guard, so you run from the cop. Your decision is to evade justice so that you can keep hurting people. You need to die ASAP.

        Either way, you are making a decision. You'd rather be shot than be peacefully arrested. As long as the cop fairly dishes it out, your death is a benefit to society.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Justin Case on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:15AM (3 children)

          by Justin Case (4239) on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:15AM (#488452) Journal

          Running away [from a cop] means ... You need to die ASAP.

          Only in a mythical world where cops are always good guys.

          As long as the cop fairly dishes it out

          And that's a hell of a stretch for your high-and-mighty life-or-death pronouncements.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:51AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:51AM (#488460)

            Yes indeed, there are bad cops. There are really bad ones and regular bad ones.

            Still, you need to freeze and then obey orders. Anything else is incredibly stupid. This is your life, not a video game. You have a choice...

            Fight or run: You will likely get hurt very badly, if not killed.

            Surrender: Minor bruises would be unsurprising. Death is extremely rare. Many people are totally unhurt. Sometimes you even get to go free.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @01:47AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @01:47AM (#488482)

              Still, you need to freeze and then obey orders.

              If you're black, as a bonus, you get shot anyway.

              Last year a guy who sits by me got oddly bent out of shape about one person who was doing just that, but the cops gunned down him down anyway.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @05:27AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @05:27AM (#488545)
    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:30PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:30PM (#488418)

      > Suppose the person escapes, then goes on to kill and rape and maim and torture

      Maybe I ought to shoot you, just in case you might go on to kill and rape.

      Unless he's already tried to kill and rape then shooting him as he flees is a totally disproportionate escalation of force.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:12AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @12:12AM (#488450)

        Running from a cop is about as dumb as it gets... unless you're already going down for decades in prison because of your crimes.

        The cop can and should assume that you are running due to a horrific felony. (Why else would you run?) Since you have committed a horrific felony and are trying to escape, the cop has every right to shoot you.

        Not guilty of that? Don't run. It's that simple. Everybody knows this.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday April 04 2017, @04:35AM

          by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday April 04 2017, @04:35AM (#488528)

          ...Since you have committed a horrific felony and are trying to escape, the cop has every right to shoot you...

          What an inconveniently large consignment of bovine excrement.

          I would have included a reference to Judge Dredd, except that someone else beat me to it.

          --
          It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:51PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 03 2017, @10:51PM (#488424)

      Holey Shit! We got Pres. Dueterte posting as AC right here in river city! Extrajudicial killings are the way to go! Maybe if we integrated the police and the courts, and just called the cops "Judge", like in "Judge Dredd". . . . oh, been done already? How'd it work out?

      • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @01:00AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @01:00AM (#488462)

        As bad as they are, the US courts are more-or-less working. This is because the US is a wealthy country with low crime -- yes really.

        Dueterte doesn't have that kind of luxury. In a nation that faces poverty and high crime, such niceties go out the window. You have to get shit done, sometimes in a very ugly way. Life is cheap in these places. Someday, perhaps as a result of brutally fighting crime, there may be an ability to be kind and gentle. Until then, you do what you must.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @01:53AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @01:53AM (#488486)

          Ah yes, drug crime.

          "Drugs," the magic word that makes violence against innocents acceptable.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @04:08PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 04 2017, @04:08PM (#488675)

      That said, running from the cops means you welcome getting shot.

      No, it doesn't, you blithering fool! There are any number of reasons why someone might decide that running from the cops was the best (i.e., the least-bad) option.

      We pay the cops to do that.

      I, for one, object to cops shooting people in the back while they are running away. In fact, back in the day, it was considered the type of thing that only a low-life would do. But that was back in the day when people cared about things like honour. My, how times have changed!

      Some people need killing.

      Yes, indeed, some people do need killing. In fact, I think I might have just spotted someone who needs killing. Care to guess who that might be?

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Monday April 03 2017, @10:11PM (2 children)

    by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday April 03 2017, @10:11PM (#488411)

    a start on the road back to Mayberry

    Lovely turn of phrase. Can I borrow it sometimes?

    Treating people with compassion and empathy, plus engaging in communication... Not treating tickets as an income stream, but evaluating how they truly impact the community

    AKA "policing as it should be done". Not just hope for Camden, but for everybody.

    --
    It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
    • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday April 04 2017, @03:53AM (1 child)

      by edIII (791) on Tuesday April 04 2017, @03:53AM (#488519)

      Sure, borrow it anytime.

      Yes, it does give hope for policing done sanely in the U.S

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.