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posted by cmn32480 on Monday April 17 2017, @10:24AM   Printer-friendly
from the not-listening-to-all-sides dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

An editorial in the Wellesley College student newspaper that called for "shutting down" some forms of hateful rhetoric became the latest flashpoint in a contentious national debate over free speech and its limits on college campuses.

The editorial, published Wednesday in the Wellesley News, argues that the campus community will "not stand for hate speech, and will call it out when possible."

"Shutting down rhetoric that undermines the existence and rights of others is not a violation of free speech; it is hate speech," the editorial states. "The spirit of free speech is to protect the suppressed, not to protect a free-for-all where anything is acceptable, no matter how hateful and damaging."

The editorial was widely criticized on social media as antithetical to the free exchange of ideas that is critical in a democracy and in liberal arts education. It comes as colleges across the country are wrestling with how to protect free speech in an era of trigger warnings, safe spaces, and even assaults on incendiary speakers invited to campuses.

Free speech for all. Unless they disagree with us on something...

Source: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/04/14/wellesley-college-student-newspaper-ignites-free-speech-debate/NHVrp8nNensXxCQHaPLHPJ/story.html


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday April 17 2017, @02:05PM (12 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 17 2017, @02:05PM (#495246) Journal

    The problem here is that groups of people want to silence other groups, even by force. Fascists claiming to be anti-fascists.

    (I can only wish you've got the in her home words in my post)
    The way I see, the Wellesley College students are in their home; to my mind, they are free to adopt for themselves whatever rules they please.

    Second: you are the ones that shaped your society along around "what divides you" as opposed with "what you have in common". Yeah, sure, evolution and survival of the fittest mantra... Great. Now, that's the bed you made for yourselves, lie in it and stop whinging.

    How can otherwise be, you ask? Here: The Netherlands has 14 parties in their parliament (senate included) [wikipedia.org] - no party has enough votes to govern by itself; all the govts since 1917 (the moment universal suffrage was introduced) have been coalition governments.
    Let me "translate" this for you - all the Dutch governments since the introduction of representative democracy involved negotiations to form governments. As opposed to "politically kill the other guy, if you don't win by yourself you are a looser".

    And the Netherlands is not a singular example.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
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  • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Monday April 17 2017, @02:24PM (2 children)

    by inertnet (4071) on Monday April 17 2017, @02:24PM (#495258) Journal

    Funny that you're using the Netherlands as an argument to a Dutch person...

    First it's not the Wellesley College students home, they don't get to decide the rules (although they're trying very hard).

    Secondly, you contradict yourself. These students are the ones who are trying to "politically kill the other guy" by trying to kill free speech. It used to be that those with the best arguments won a debate, but now it has become fashionable to silence anyone who's opposed to one's opinion.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 17 2017, @02:59PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 17 2017, @02:59PM (#495270) Journal

      First it's not the Wellesley College students home, they don't get to decide the rules (although they're trying very hard).

      Then it's up to the owners of the home to apply a correction (if they think is necessary), not everybody's damned business.

      Secondly, you contradict yourself. These students are the ones who are trying to "politically kill the other guy" by trying to kill free speech. It used to be that those with the best arguments won a debate

      Look, the right to free speech doesn't automatically implies your speech will be listened or accepted by each and everyone, deal with it.
      For example: you may turn blue in your face with arguments or just rhetoric, I'm simply not going to listen to you if you advocate slavery or genocide or flat earth (yes, there are such things that aren't subject of debate. At least speaking for myself, any attempt to argue those is a waste of time).
      I won't stop you either in your attempts to convince others, if your words does not imply/conduce-to a psychical threat to myself.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday April 18 2017, @05:05AM

      by dry (223) on Tuesday April 18 2017, @05:05AM (#495688) Journal

      Have you actually read the editorial? If not you should, they're basically saying that speech should be countered with speech (and education). Free speech is not a one way street where one group can say whatever they want and the other group has to silently suck it up even though they don't agree. As they say sometimes speech leads to frustration and hostile speech in return and they're trying to discourage that.

  • (Score: 2) by Arik on Monday April 17 2017, @03:06PM (8 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Monday April 17 2017, @03:06PM (#495278) Journal
    "In her home" is key indeed. If she comes out on the street and starts trying to enforce her speech code there, she's over the line.

    "The way I see, the Wellesley College students are in their home; to my mind, they are free to adopt for themselves whatever rules they please."

    There are a couple of things wrong with this line of thought. First off, they are NOT in their home. They're at College. This is a place where they should meet intellectual challenges, not coddling and safe space.

    But second, even setting that aside for the sake of argument, they are not all of one mind. If they were, there would be no need for such rules, no one would think of them, because everyone would follow them without being told. So what you're talking about is not a single person of a single mind alone in their home and not wanting to hear contradiction, but multiple people sharing a space and SOME of them want to be able to make the OTHERS shut up. Well, if it's their house, it's just as much the house of the other students, the ones they want to shut up...

    Our societies are being polarized to shocking degrees, and don't feel so smug about Europe, the same thing is happening all over that continent too.

    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:20PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @03:20PM (#495288)

      So hilarious watching these people whine and complain, yet any time a business does anything like this its "a private business they can do what they want!". Lol, hypocrites blowing this out of proportion cause its their feelz this time.

      I don't much care for this editorial, it pushes people onto the path of "wrongthink" but it isn't censorship and if you want to complain about shitty opinionated editorials I'm sure we could dig up some nasty stuff from conservative student papers.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 17 2017, @03:55PM (6 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 17 2017, @03:55PM (#495298) Journal

      There are a couple of things wrong with this line of thought. First off, they are NOT in their home. They're at College. This is a place where they should meet intellectual challenges, not coddling and safe space.

      Then it is for the owner of the said home to correct them. Dam'd sure, that's nobody else's business.

      So what you're talking about is not a single person of a single mind alone in their home and not wanting to hear contradiction, but multiple people sharing a space and SOME of them want to be able to make the OTHERS shut up. Well, if it's their house, it's just as much the house of the other students, the ones they want to shut up...

      Then it's their business to learn how to negotiate a common way of life. The Ignites Free-Speech Debate is just meddling in their internal affair, doesn;t help them and sure doesn't bring any good for the ones outside - except venting some steam and digging their heels deeper for the next "brawl".

      Our societies are being polarized to shocking degrees, and don't feel so smug about Europe, the same thing is happening all over that continent too.

      I don't feel smug at all, I'm not even living there (anymore). I'm only pointing out there are other ways to deal with issues than total polarization. Maybe it's a good lesson to try to get to some different solution.
      How was that saying going? "Doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results" is... what?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday April 17 2017, @05:59PM (5 children)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Monday April 17 2017, @05:59PM (#495390)

        Then it is for the owner of the said home to correct them. Dam'd sure, that's nobody else's business.

        It should really be all our business what sort of education people are getting. Maybe not directly, but the future people in charge of shit should be getting a decent calibration.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 17 2017, @08:47PM (4 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 17 2017, @08:47PM (#495480) Journal

          It should really be all our business what sort of education people are getting.

          Because, oh, you are so successful in what you are doing as a society, all the newer generations must repeat your mistakes forever, right?
          Perhaps the entire world should replicate your successes and have your "first past the post" election and two parties politics and be divided exactly in two halves which endlessly quarrel and never negotiates.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday April 17 2017, @09:15PM (1 child)

            by tangomargarine (667) on Monday April 17 2017, @09:15PM (#495504)

            Hey, I didn't say we were doing a good job. But if not we should be interested in getting better.

            --
            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday April 18 2017, @10:23AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 18 2017, @10:23AM (#495773) Journal

              Hey, I didn't say we were doing a good job.

              Point taken.

              But if not we should be interested in getting better.

              Maybe it would worth considering doing it somehow different, as the current way of doing it doesn't seem to work.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @09:54PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 17 2017, @09:54PM (#495538)

            Other people's opinions on SoylentNews are none of your business. Stop replying. What, are you trying to force everyone to replicate your lifestyle!?

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday April 18 2017, @10:19AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 18 2017, @10:19AM (#495772) Journal

              Other people's opinions on SoylentNews are none of your business.

              Of course they are not.

              Stop replying.

              Where did you get the idea I'm replying? I'm not, I'm merely (and merrily, but no longer marrily) creating original content (grin)

              What, are you trying to force everyone to replicate your lifestyle!?

              God, no! (shudders) This planet couldn't support two of us.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford