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USA Today reports:
"Russia's Supreme Court formally banned Jehovah's Witnesses as an extremist organization Thursday and ordered the state to seize its property in Russia, according to Russian news media."
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Russian Court Bans Jehovah's Witnesses
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(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 22 2017, @02:19AM (4 children)
Religion and religious freedom should never be a justification for criminal behavior.
BTW what is Russia going to do with that property it has seized? Even if the Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) are as bad as you say, there should be laws protecting them from arbitrary asset seizures by the state.
This reminds me of the Crimea annexation by Russia back a few years ago. People were claiming at the time that it was legitimate just because there was a vote - ignoring that Putin knows how to throw a vote and had ample manpower on the ground to do whatever vote manipulation needed to be done. Further, he set the vote's parameters (stay with Ukraine or go with Russia). No vote can be legitimate under those circumstances.
Then the Crimea annexation goes the way Putin wants it to go after the vote. No democratic process decided the vote and no democratic process decided what happened to Crimea after the vote.
This is why the rule of law is such a powerful concept. It prevents the powerful from just doing whatever they want. Here, perhaps there was a valid reason for the JW asset seizure - though I doubt it. But I consider it more likely that the JW had assets that someone with pull valued. They'll then get those assets at firesale prices. IMHO this is commonplace in the kleptocracy that Russia has evolved into. Such is the effectiveness of justice where one gets to make up rules as one goes.
(Score: 4, Informative) by jelizondo on Saturday April 22 2017, @03:04AM (1 child)
You mean like taking people’s property without due process? Like in the US where they can seize your cash, home, car and/or equipment without charging you with any crime?
We are quite fast at seeing the speck of sawdust in our neighbor’s eye while not perceiving the plank in our own eye. Read the above quotation and tell me exactly how this is different from Russia’s behavior, please.
References:
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 22 2017, @10:53AM
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday April 22 2017, @03:22PM (1 child)
What does any government do with property it seizes? What to the police in the US do with property they seize under "Civil Asset Forfeiture" laws? At least here a law was passed and only official cult property is seized. I'm sure no one is taking anyone's personal residence away just because they're "witnesses".
This reminds me of the Crimea annexation by Russia
Crimea acceeded to Russia. Just like EU countries acceeded to the EU. Accession is not quite the same as annexation. As for your spewing official western propaganda about things going Putin's way the facts don't support you. Strange how there's no protest or outcry in Crimea itself. There are more protests in Paris or even the US than in Crimea. In fact, most people are exceedingly happy. They cut off Crimea's electricity and the residents stated they'd rather live without electricity than go back to Ukraine. You can hardly say this was all some evil plot on the part of Putin. If you think that Crimeans are constantly oppressed every day and that's why they don't protest, then I challenge you to actually go and visit.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 22 2017, @05:35PM
What does any government do with property it seizes? What to the police in the US do with property they seize under "Civil Asset Forfeiture" laws? At least here a law was passed and only official cult property is seized. I'm sure no one is taking anyone's personal residence away just because they're "witnesses".
My point here is that this is theft unless the assets are returned either to the "cult" or the members of the "cult".
Crimea acceeded to Russia. Just like EU countries acceeded to the EU.
More like Austria "acceeded" to Nazi Germany in 1938. The Anschluss was very much like Russia's move into the Crimea. I'll note the obvious. There was no democratic process for the "accession" or its aftermath. There was a rigged vote under the eye of Russian troops and no subsequent democratic or legal process to validate it. Putin did what he wanted.
Strange how there's no protest or outcry in Crimea itself.
How would you know? There was substantial protests in the beginning before the iron fist clamped down. Since there has been considerable suppression [amnesty.org] of people and the media in the Crimea. Readers will see the same pattern as with the Jehovah Witnesses (JW) being declared an extremist religious organization. Dissident groups are labeled as "extremist" or "terrorist", and subject to disbanding with dire legal consequences for the organizers of those groups. In addition, we have this observation from the introduction to the linked Amnesty International report:
Beyond the prosecution of individual activists that this briefing focuses on, the full weight of Russia’s repressive legislation has been employed to severely restrict the freedom of assembly and dramatically reduce media freedoms. Public protest has been virtually extinguished. Since the annexation of Crimea by Russia, independent political, cultural and other events have been disallowed by the local de facto authorities in Crimea. This has affected everything from street protests, to traditional commemorative and cultural events held by Crimean Tatars and gatherings to celebrate Ukrainian culture. There have been rare exceptions when such gatherings have been allowed, but this has typically been in remote locations and under very restricted conditions.
More recently, public protest in the Crimean capital, Simferopol, has been completely prohibited after the de facto Mayor of the Crimean capital Simferopol issued, on 7 March, a decree banning all mass public, cultural, entertainment and other events except those organized by the authorities.
Here's a similarity with the current abuses:
The Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (hereafter, the Mejlis) is a body elected at an informal all-Crimean Tatar assembly, Kurultai, to represent the community vis-à-vis the local and central authorities. Mejlis members and particularly its current and former leaders, have been subjected to harassment, forcible exile and criminal prosecution, while the body itself was promptly deprived of its offices, formally warned not to engage in “extremist” activities (criticism of the new political realities on the peninsula), and more recently declared an illegal “extremist” organisation. Several activists associated with the Mejlis are currently facing persecution. Their cases are documented below.
On 15 February 2016, the de facto Prosecutor of Crimea initiated a case against the Mejlis alleging that it was an “extremist” organization on the basis of its leaders’ non-violent defiance of the Russian occupation and annexation of Crimea. Prior to this, the Mejlis’ leader Refat Chubarov had been forcibly exiled from Crimea, as was his predecessor, Mustafa Dzhemiliev, a Crimean Tatar veteran human rights activist and informal leader, and another vocal opponent of the occupation. The Mejlis had earlier been forced out of its building in the capital Simferopol after a court ruled that the building’s owner, the charitable Foundation Crimea, had no right to rent it out, and ordered the historic building to be vacated, and then seized the property on account of the owner’s failing to evict its tenants.
It's worth noting here that this is pretty much the same accusations and punishments as with the JW case.
Despite that, there are little protests [euromaidanpress.com] here and there.