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posted by on Wednesday April 26 2017, @10:34AM   Printer-friendly
from the religion-of-piece dept.

Milo Yiannopoulos brings us this disturbing tidbit:

A gay man from Chechnya, Russia has spoken out, providing some troubling details related to the the majority-Muslim province's effort to eliminate the LGBTQ community entirely.

According to Metro.co.uk's Charles White, many gay men living in Chechnya fear the government will "eliminate" them by the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

The government is reportedly hoarding[sic] the gay men into "concentration camps" where some may have been killed.

According to Breitbart, the Agence France-Presse (AFP) spoke with several gay victims of oppression who have managed to escape Chechnya. What they've revealed is that not only are gay men in the region afraid of persecution from authority.

They're also scared of "honor killings" by family members looking to punish them for shaming their family name. This fear follows the individuals even after they've left Chechnya, where the bulk of the atrocities appears to be occurring.

"If any of my relatives realize I'm gay, they won't hesitate a minute before killing me," said one 28-year-old victim according to the outlet. "And if they don't do it, they will get killed themselves for failing to uphold the family honor."

[Ed. note: See also this fascinating background article on the apparent cause of this recent pogrom in Chechnya. Hat tip to n1 for providing this link.]

I know it's not our usual fare but some things just need brought out in the open; see what Iran is up to.


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Gaaark on Wednesday April 26 2017, @04:29PM (8 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday April 26 2017, @04:29PM (#500136) Journal

    I can't wait until the worlds' adult population pulls up their big boy pants and realizes that people are people.
    If you're gay, WTF can you do about it? Nothing!

    It's been said that "homosexuality is a choice".
    WTF?!?!

    Did i, as a teenager, look at guys and girls and say "Yeah, guys are gorgeous and girls are gorgeous..... meh, i'll go straight... I'm going for girls".

    No.

    I looked at guys and looked at girls and went "Man! Girls ARE GORGEOUS!"

    We need to all grow up and be mature and realize that people are different.
    And we need to stop with all these religions that say "believe what i believe or i will kill you".
    Religion strikes again.

    Shit.
    Grow up people.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
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  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @06:23PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @06:23PM (#500249)

    Religion strikes again.

    Did you know that homosexuality literally did not exist until about 130 years ago?
    This isn't some denialism, I mean the word simply did not exist.
    Although coined by a pro-gay rights campaigner, it didn't see significant usage until adopted by a (european) psychologist intent on pathologizing a wide range of sexual behaviors. [wikipedia.org]
    No edition of the bible even contained the word until 1946.
    The mere popularization of a single umbrella word to describe a multi-dimensional set of behaviors has shaped the modern conception of sexuality.
    And certainly some of those behaviors were scorned by a variety of religious subgroups before the word was ever spoken, the outright hate of all things gay was not in the original texts of any of the abrahamic religions. Gayness was barely even mentioned. For every 500+ biblical and koranic verses about "love your neighbors" and "its god's job to judge, not yours" there is one verse that mentioned a aspect of homosexuality.

    For example Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" doesn't cover blow-jobs, or hand-jobs and doesn't cover anything lesbian. In fact, the original text doesn't even say "abomination" [religiondispatches.org] the word is toevah which is more like a religious ritual that is forbidden, its the same word use to describe idolatry, witchcraft and child sacrifice.

    The point is, gay-hate has been exaggerated and reinserted into modern religious doctrine. Its more a reflection of the people interpreting the scriptures than it is of the scriptures themselves.

    • (Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:04PM (2 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:04PM (#500273) Journal
      You make a very good point.

      "The point is, gay-hate has been exaggerated and reinserted into modern religious doctrine. Its more a reflection of the people interpreting the scriptures than it is of the scriptures themselves. "

      But this is not quite correct. It can't have been exaggerated if it wasn't there, and it wasn't there, the concept of 'gay' or 'homosexual' as an orientation simply did not exist when these books were written. There was no concept of a gay man (as opposed to a straight man) to be condemned. The ancients certainly knew of homosexual *acts* (and wrote about them on several occasions, often in condemnation but also at some times and places positively) but they didn't have that crucial concept of homosexuality as an identity or an orientation at all.

      What you see with modern religious gay hate is deeply rooted in the concept of shared identity which forms the root of most religions in practice. The moment the notion came to be held that there are actually two different types of men, rather than simply two different types of acts which men might (or might not) choose to engage in, it also became necessary at a sort of gut level for those religious groups to pick one or the other. For some unfathomable reason most of them chose hetero, which immediately results in homo becoming 'the other' - the definitional opposition to the in-group. Looking for scriptures with which to condemn them could only have come after that.

      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:50PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:50PM (#500308)

        > it also became necessary at a sort of gut level for those religious groups to pick one or the other.

        Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:07AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:07AM (#500552)

          AC you sound sarcastic but Ank's nailed it. The key part:

          >> The moment the notion came to be held that there are actually two different types of men, rather than simply two different types of acts which men might (or might not) choose to engage in

          The moment there is a "we-are" and a "they-are", the larger group will cohere and use its larger mass to gain power. It's just the way that social group animals work, and humans are included. It's absolutely a "gut level" thing.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:18PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:18PM (#500286)

      I tire so much of etymological lawyers and apologists. You're not going to change anybody's mind, and on top of that, why would The Message of all translations screw this up? Why would the NIV also screw it up? Is there anybody whose translated this in a way that's more accurate?

      KJV first:

      If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

      NIV:

      If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

      MSG:

      If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

      Also The Voice just for shits and giggles because I love the screenplay format, though I've no idea about its veracity. Scene 20, which is a smashing scene with some lovely acting, in which Moses discovers a vital clue, in which there aren't any ancaps, although I think you can hear a violently imposed -oolp!

      The Eternal One spoke to Moses.

      Eternal One: ...If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have participated in a detestable act. Both men are to be put to death, for their blood is on them.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:47PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:47PM (#500306)

        You're not going to change anybody's mind, and on top of that, why would The Message of all translations screw this up? Why would the NIV also screw it up?

        I assume you are referring to the "kill them both" part?
        A little more context is necessary.
        The list of things leviticus says to kill you for is pretty long.
        Like half the verses in chapter 20:

        Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.
        If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
        And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death
        And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they
        A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death

        We stopped killing people for all of those things, they aren't even illegal.

        The only reason people get amped up about teh gays is because they want to be amped up about teh gays.
        The bible doesn't cause them to do it, the bible is just a handy excuse. They'd find another excuse if this one wasn't available.
        For example, the nazis weren't big on scripture but they still singled out thousands of gays for the camps. They were the ones who came up with the pink triangles. [wikipedia.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:46AM (#500563)

          > Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

          To a culture that believes curses inflict real harm, this is the equivalent of "if you kill your parents or destroy their spiritual beings, die" - matches US law

          > If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

          Cuckolding that results in offspring was, culturally, the same as murdering one of the married mate's, since that pregnancy cycle wasn't available (and in a world of many miscarriages and frequent childbirth deaths to mother and child, and low infant survival rates, this made sense. Again, murder can be a death penalty in the US right now.

          > And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death

          Sex with one's mother is in the gravest crimes category for most cultures. Incest gets imprisonment in the US.

          > And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they

          Close enough to mother taboos.

          > A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death

          Don't even get me started.

          > We stopped killing people for all of those things, they aren't even illegal.

          Not factually correct, if by 'we' you mean 'people of the USA'

  • (Score: 2) by tfried on Thursday April 27 2017, @08:24AM

    by tfried (5534) on Thursday April 27 2017, @08:24AM (#500572)

    Did i, as a teenager, look at guys and girls and say "Yeah, guys are gorgeous and girls are gorgeous..... meh, i'll go straight... I'm going for girls".

    No.

    Very good point. But do note that there there is bound to be some unknown quantity of people for whom it did go like that. Remember that people can indeed be attracted to both sexes, and there seems to be quite a large margin of uncertainty about the actual prevalence of bisexuality in the population.

    In fact, I wonder what part this may play in the debate. How many of those shouting "homosexuality is a choice" actually did make a real choice, themselves?