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from the is-that-a-railgun-or-are-you-just-happy-to-see-me? dept.
The Motley Fool's Rich Smith writes:
For more than three years now, I've been tracking the U.S. Navy's progress toward building a working electromagnetic railgun prototype — a Mach 6 cannon reputedly capable of striking targets 110 miles away with pinpoint accuracy.
Each railgun projectile would cost about $25,000 to produce — and if you're keeping track, then yes, success on the railgun project would yield a weapon boasting nearly twice the 67-mile range of Boeing's (NYSE:BA) Harpoon II missile but costing just 1/48th the Boeing missile's $1.2 million cost.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/04/22/navys-new-mach-6-em-railgun-almost-ready-for-prime.aspx
Electromagnetic Railgun - First shot at Dahlgren's new Terminal Range https://youtu.be/Pi-BDIu_umo
(Score: 4, Informative) by Zipf on Thursday April 27 2017, @02:53AM (16 children)
My understanding is that the shell is guided and can explode at target distance to create high velocity debris field.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @03:50AM (8 children)
You've contributed an actual fact to correct "know it all" Dumbass and his extensive math who was totally ignorant that even "non engined" ballistic projectiles are guided these days. (Movable steering fins plus guidance such as GPS.)
You get less informed by reading comments on Soylent more often than not. :-(
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @06:27AM (3 children)
I want so bad to mod this up for the :
but why do we have to denigrate someone who posted in good faith but may not have understood?
I appreciate the addition of additional information, or more correct information, but its also saddening to see a verbal flamebait launched against a fellow Soylentil that was posting that which he was aware of.
Places me in one helluva quandary... is this informative or flamebait? I guess the two cancel out. So I will reply instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @06:54AM (1 child)
but why do we have to denigrate someone who posted in good faith but may not have understood?
You must be new around here, ain't ya? We have to denigrate because it is Runaway1956-2666, he posts on everything, especially things he knows nothing about, constantly. It is not in good faith, it is a bad case of logorhea. And he claims to have been a sailor, but inquiries with the DOD report that no one named "Runaway1956" ever served in the US Military, ever.
Oh, wait, you were talking about someone else? Oh, well, carry on then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @08:39AM
I'm pretty sure his real name is not "Runaway1956" or even just "Runaway". My real name isn't "Anonymous Coward" either (and nor is yours, I guess).
And I'm pretty sure the military would require you to use your real name.
(Score: 2, Informative) by qzm on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:19AM
Just to add a little more 'fact' to these boys need to fantasies about this actual weapon.
What they are dreaming of is the 'hyper velocity projectile' project, which the navy has been chasing for some time.
So fact it has achieved exactly one thing, the firing of a solid dummy load, with no active capability.
The HPV has been a dream for a few generations now, but still there is no actual evidence that it is actually possible.
After all, they only have to be able to receive GPS and radio guidance through the plasma sheath generated at mach 6+, in a unit a
small fraction of the size of existing guided munitions, and control its hypersonic flight.
And of course make that hold up in the 100,000+G acceleration of these guns..
should be ready just as soon as they find that bad of unobtanium they left in the back of the lab.
Damn those facts.
(Score: 1) by qzm on Thursday April 27 2017, @06:59AM (3 children)
Good to see 'My understanding is that the shell is guided and can explode at target distance to create high velocity debris field' is a fact!
Of course there is no evidence *I* can find of either of these 'facts', care to present any?
Thought not.. time to come back from some scifi future and stick to actual facts.. even if real math confuses you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @10:21AM
How would you present evidence of 'my understanding is'? A brain scan, maybe?
Note that the fact that something is Zipf's understanding doesn't necessary mean that the something is correct; Zipf correctly stated it as his understanding. The assumption that someone's understanding has to be in any way related to reality may generally be reasonable, but it still remains an assumption, unless you can support that assumption with facts.
In other words, while you are right to criticize Zipf for an understanding that is not backed up with facts, you are not right with your accusation of Zipf claiming wrong facts unless you have any evidence that what Zipf writes is not Zipf's (flawed) understanding, as that is the only thing he claims as fact.
(Score: 3, Informative) by SunTzuWarmaster on Thursday April 27 2017, @12:32PM (1 child)
Um... There was the article in Popular Mechanics from last year (http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21174/navy-electromagnetic-railgun/)... Also reports from Fox news describing navigation sensors within the projectile (http://bgr.com/2016/03/17/futuristic-military-railgun-bullets-could-travel-at-mach-6/).
Of course - you could always just consult the spec sheet (and advertising page), from the manufacturer:
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/hyper-velocity-projectile-hvp [baesystems.com]
The HVP’s low drag aerodynamic design enables high-velocity, maneuverability, and decreased time-to-target. These attributes, coupled with accurate guidance electronics, provide low-cost mission effectiveness against current threats and the ability to adapt to air and surface threats of the future.
It is hardly a secret.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday April 27 2017, @06:48PM
For the baesystems link, I get:
404 Not Found
404 Not Found
* Code: NoSuchKey
* Message: The specified key does not exist.
* Key: en-us/product/hyper-velocity-projectile-hvp
* RequestId: 90007EDB0A1AF376
* HostId:
vX9frjxmyD/l0vcvbY0YNDT5ZAjGYtETmEfUPNJE4eoT8hnwaow6ue4JtpyrwHKjDJl
2E/AfFm8=
Not sure if it is because I was trying to access from outside the US.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 27 2017, @04:16AM (4 children)
So the purpose of this thing is to do what exactly? Basically to be a 7500km/h fragmentation grenade? I know KE = 1/2 m(v^2) and that that ^2 adds up fast, but I'm not seeing how this is going to work. Wouldn't it do more damage by burrowing itself into the ground and making subsequent blast, heat, and shock waves, like a small meteor strike?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @05:47AM (3 children)
You can't explode the projectile AFTER you crash it (and attempt to "burrow", as you call it).
Maximum damage is delivered by exploding the thing ABOVE the target so the blast is transmitted to a larger area beneath it.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @08:27AM (1 child)
I guess that depends on your target. I guess if you target a closed structure, there's value in first breaking through the wall, and then exploding inside, in order to destroy as much as possible there. If exploding outside, the structure will provide protection; if exploding inside, the structure will instead prevent the destructive energy go wasted outside.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday April 27 2017, @02:37PM
You have nailed the definition of "armor piercing" precisely. When a tank is hit with an armor piercing charge, the projectile doesn't enter into the tank at all. Instead, the projectile sets off the internal shaped charge, which is very precisely aimed at a point maybe half as big around as a pencil. The plasma created in that shaped charge burns through, and enters the tank, then ricochets around inside of the steel hull. Anything the plasma touches is toast, whether it be electronics, ammunition, the tank commander, the tank driver, or the pinup taped beside the gunsights.
Most definitely, often times, you want to deliver your destructive energy INSIDE of a target.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Thursday April 27 2017, @11:25AM
Umm.
Tallboy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallboy_(bomb) [wikipedia.org]
Grand Slam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_%28bomb%29 [wikipedia.org]
Ok, bombs rather than shells, but designed to penetrate metres of concrete and then explode.
Lets try armour-piercing shells, a staple of tank warfare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shell [wikipedia.org] - APHE designed to penetrate, then explode.
Or, how about Palliser shell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliser_shot_and_shell [wikipedia.org] , the largest of which, I believe massed 910 kg with a 14.5 kg bursting charge.
It appears one can explode a projectile after one crashes it.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by qzm on Thursday April 27 2017, @06:56AM (1 child)
Great, care to post any evidence of that?
*My* understanding, based on all the available test information on this actual device is that it fires completely passive ordinance.
There would be significant issues is developing active ordinance for this, due to both the huge accelerations involved (much higher that existing guns),
and the small issue of the massive electromagnetic fields that are an essential part of its basic operation.
So, anyone care to provide one small shred of evidence of a guided shell? We have seen images of the proposed shell, and have an approximate scale of
18 inches by 'several inches' round..
But since people here dont like facts, here are a few more.
We also have a price, of $25k per round. The Zumwalt was SUPPOSED to have guided shells, and they were priced at $800k each.. There is a cheaper
howitzer guided round, much shorter range and MUCH lower accelleration capability, at 'only' 68k each.. Those guided 25k rounds are a steal! (not to
mention that those howitzer rounds are 155mm... a little larger...)
Of course they are going to have to fit in a rather small package, and work at mach 6.. with GPS reception.. I'll leave that little bit of thinking up to you.
so come on, lets see your evidence of these mythical guided rounds?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:28AM
There would be significant issues is developing active ordinance for this, due to both the huge accelerations involved (much higher that existing guns),
and the small issue of the massive electromagnetic fields that are an essential part of its basic operation.
Not just massive magnetic fields. This is a rail gun, not a coil gun - the projectile is a part of the circuit, and there is a ton of power being put into that circuit. It's basically a single loop electromagnet, consisting of two rails connected by the projectile.
The amount of heat involved is also enormous, both from the electrical power and from the Mach 6 speed.