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Free Malaysia Today reports
At the [Malaysian] National Scholastic Chess Championship 2017, which took place in Putrajaya recently, the girl was informed that what she wore was "improper and had violated the dress code" for the tournament.
[...] The girl's chess coach, Kaushal Khandhar, wrote on Facebook, "In the middle of Round 2, (without stopping the clocks) Chief Arbiter informs my student that the dress she wore was improper and violated the dress code of the tournament.
"It was later informed (by Chief Arbiter) to my student and her mother, that the Tournament Director deemed my student's dress to be 'seductive' and a 'temptation from a certain angle far, far away'."
[...] Kaushal said after discussions with the chief arbiter, the girl was allowed to compete, provided she bought a pair of slacks for the next day, but that decision came at 10pm and with the event at Putrajaya, there was no way the girl's mother could buy anything for the 9am start the next day.
"Before the morning round next day, my student's mother called the tournament director regarding this matter. Initially he had replied that he was not aware of the situation but after a brief discussion, we realised he knew all the details on this incident prior to this phone call.
"He promised to return the call upon discussion with the chief arbiter, but this did not happen. He would further not answer or return any calls by my student's mother", Kaushal wrote, adding that the situation led to the inevitable decision of withdrawal from the tournament altogether."
We should perhaps note here that Malaysia is majority-Muslim.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @03:54PM (84 children)
We should perhaps note here that Malaysia is majority-Muslim.
Racist.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @03:56PM (2 children)
No kidding, submitter is JEWG. Of course JEWG is a fucking semite racist who collaborated with Hitler.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @04:02PM (1 child)
wat
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @04:05PM
OriginalOwner is gewg is JEWG
(Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 01 2017, @04:22PM (16 children)
Not racist. You're ignorant. Many (perhaps most) Muslims wouldn't allow a girl to compete at all. Many (perhaps most) Muslims think that a girl approaching puberty is ready for breeding, and needs to be married off. The only way for a girl to be "safe" in public, is to wear that damned burka, and it had better cover everything except her fingertips and her eyes.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @04:26PM (7 children)
Clothing that shows skin is a distraction from chess and does not belong at a chess tournament. Take your irrelevant religious bigotry and fuck the hell off, you racist sack of shit.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 01 2017, @04:39PM
It is only your own sense of inferiority that shows you racism everywhere.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday May 01 2017, @04:44PM
Distraction is part of the game. Otherwise why let the players see each others' faces? They should play in front of a monitor showing the chess board, and not in front of an audience. Personally, I think they should have to play naked, in the Vatican, in front of the ESPN cameras.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @05:06PM
Clothing that shows skin is a distraction from chess and does not belong at a chess tournament.
Look at the photo of the girl in her dress. It doesn't "show skin" its a completely normal dress for a 12-year old school girl to wear.
Take your irrelevant religious bigotry and fuck the hell off, you racist sack of shit.
You are right, but for the wrong reasons. Its his connecting this stupidity to islam that is dumb. There is nothing in the reporting to suggest that religiosity is at play. Malaysia isn't the only country where stupid sexist dress-policing occurs on a regular basis. Even today in the UK it is legal for an employer to force women to wear high-heels at work. [telegraph.co.uk]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @05:13PM
But Jared, the only reason you would ever be distracted by seeing a 12 year old girl's arms is because you're a disgusting pedo kidfucker.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @06:18PM
Calm down everyone, at least if he's on here posting his complete stupidity then he not out smashing windows at local universities or attacking "racist" students exiting their classes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @09:59PM (1 child)
I play chess on the beach, you ignorant clod! One of these days I might even play chess on a nude beach...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:00PM
One of these days I might even play chess on a nude beach...
You haven't before? All the best players are there!
A nice intellectual game, free of alien parasites [wikia.com], and you can relax and get a nice full body tan without any of those annoying tan lines. That is the way humans were meant to be!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @06:57PM (4 children)
Many (perhaps most) Muslims think that a girl approaching puberty is ready for breeding, and needs to be married off.
That's demonstrably false. American muslim women have the same levels of education and income as muslim men. [washingtontimes.com] A higher percentage of muslim women hold professional jobs than christians. [dallasnews.com] And after jews they are the group most likely to label themselves as liberal. [washingtontimes.com]
And if you think that's unique to american muslims (even though all muslims are the same, right?), in the gulf states the youngest generation of women are far outpacing men in higher education. [pewresearch.org] Like in Saudi where 28% of men attend college compared to 35% of women. That's Saudi Arabia, you know, the goto country for islamafoes to cite how repressive islam is. You don't send your daughter to college if you think her only value is bearing children.
The fact of the matter is that muslims are people just like everybody else. In the 3rd world they suffer from the same 3rd world problems as everybody else. In the first world they do better than most first worlders. You can always cherry pick stats to make them look bad, but that's true of any group of people because that's the nature of grouping people.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @07:47PM (3 children)
Like in Saudi where 28% of men attend college compared to 35% of women
We should note that a Saudi female can't leave the house unless she is in the company of a male guardian.
(Oddly enough, a son can qualify for the role.)
...and she can't drive herself to class either.
While there isn't an actual Saudi law forbidding women from driving, there's nothing to stop the "religious police" from dragging her out of the car and beating her for doing that.
It's not one world.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @08:54PM (2 children)
I'm curious, was this line not enough for?
That's Saudi Arabia, you know, the goto country for islamafoes to cite how repressive islam is.
Or how about this line?
You can always cherry pick stats to make them look bad, but that's true of any group of people because that's the nature of grouping people.
Because Saudi is literally the only country with a ban on women driving. Why do the 32 million muslims in Saudi get to define what is islamic in contradiction to the 1.5 billion other muslims outside of Saudi?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:17AM (1 child)
Why do a very few million Americans get to define what is Islamic, and you'll close your eyes to the rest of the world? Oh - you're a sheltered provincial type. Not only do you not know what lies beyond your own borders, but you can't even IMAGINE what lies beyond your own borders.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @06:23AM
You're right, Islam is a spectrum of rape, mutilation, and abuse of women and young girls, not just what occurs in Saudi Arabia.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @07:15PM (2 children)
Many (perhaps most) Muslims think that a girl approaching puberty is ready for breeding, and needs to be married off.
Remember, Christians believe this as well because it's in their holy book.
Where's MikeeUSA when you need him? Something something girl children something Deuter0nomy something.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:58PM (1 child)
Don't mention his name, he might appear!
Personally I think that guy is either a troll or a false flag boggie man used by feminist to point at and rally against.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @06:47PM
Dt Chapter 22, verse 28-29, in Hebrew.
Yea, inconceivable that a mmaaaallleeee might like cute young girls.
Who was put in King Soloman's bed to see if he was really dying...
(King Soloman was a crypto feminist too rite?)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @04:22PM
While it may be Racist it is also accurate.
This kind of Muslim intolerance crap is what is causing them to fight with just about everybody, including themselves.
While I have nothing against the religion itself, the "chief arbiter" in this case is imposing his moral code in a situation where clearly the vast majority of the world would have no issue with the length of the girl's dress.
Perhaps seeing the girl's knees aroused the "chief arbiter's" latent pedophilia urges and he couldn't take it anymore. Or some Muslim cleric stuck his nose in where it didn't belong.
Bottom line....if Muslims expect everybody to conform to their norms when we are in their home location, they should shut their mouths and conform to OUR norms when in our societies (ie. USA, Europe) and not preach how we are infidels while living among us.
The vast majority of Muslims do do that, but the intolerant few ruin it for everybody else.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by EvilSS on Monday May 01 2017, @05:52PM (61 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @06:35PM (10 children)
I grew up in the segregated/still-integrating South, so, while I try to avoid racial stereotypes, some of the residual stuff from my early influences does sometimes find its way to the surface.
As you say, this is not about "race".
I'll admit to being intolerant (a bigot??) when it comes to religion--but that goes for superstitious nonsense of any stripe.
...and I find misogyny, especially religiously-based misogyny, to be particularly offensive.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @07:06PM (9 children)
> As you say, this is not about "race".
Race is not genetic, it is cultural and religion is a cultural phenomenon.
To argue that your "note" was religious bigotry and not racial bigotry is to make a distinction without a difference.
Well I guess the difference is that you can feel better about yourself if you put your prejudice on the other side of that very thin line.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @07:35PM (8 children)
You couldn't possibly be more wrong.
Race is entirely about physical appearance: skin tone; color, texture, and location of hair; eye shape; nose shape; lip shape.
Your ignorant opinions are not facts.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @09:39PM (6 children)
You couldn't possibly be more wrong.
Yeah? You know who says I'm right?
All the geneticists. [scientificamerican.com]
Like this famous guy: ''Race is a social concept, not a scientific one" [nytimes.com] — Dr. J. Craig Venter, founder Human Genome Project
There is literally more diversity of characteristics [pbs.org] within so-called racial groups than there is between them.
Also, the dictionary: [oxforddictionaries.com]
1.2 A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
We use race to mean culture all the time, for example:
"African music"
"Arabic architecture"
"Asian food"
"European couture"
— none of those are about physical characteristics of people hence they can't be genetic.
You know who says you are right?
All the racists who don't want to acknowledge their racism.
Time to put on your big boy pants and recognize that your grade-school definition of race is not useful in a grown-up world.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:22AM (5 children)
You are illiterate, of course. Put your bullshit aside, read -OriginalOwner's- post again, and believe him. Race is not about collard greens, but skin color. I have no idea what kind of game you're trying to play here, but you don't get to redefine words that have led to slavery, wars, and all other kinds of human misery. Race is about color and appearance, not the manner in which you stitch your clothing, or worship God.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:30AM (3 children)
Ah derpaway, triggered by reality's well known-liberal bias.
Nobody's redefining anything. Its the fucking OED man, the most definitive english language dictionary on the planet.
I always suspected you never went to college. Now I'm wondering if you even graduated from middle school.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:29AM
The two or three of you are using different definitions of race. Runaway's definition is more of a common use term, humans tend to use skin color, common physical traits, and culture as an indication of "race". AC's definition is more scientific, and it is correct to say that the idea of separate races who are genetically different from each other is a load of hogwash.
Given the trolling and bigotry that truly does float through here I can understand that the summary's note is easily taken into different contexts. My take on it was that the submitter wanted to highlight that the country has a majority of religious conservative types. Maybe next time one more sentence would have avoided this whole crapfset of a thread.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:42AM (1 child)
Not triggered so much, as sorry for your lack of contact with reality. Why don't you take yourself to some ghetto with a bunch of young black males hanging on the street corner, and get their opinion on race. Most of us live out in the real world, and deal with American culture on a daily basis. Sitting snug in the middle of academia, dealing with numbers and graphs doesn't prepare you for the reality out on the streets.
And, reality doesn't give half of one fuck for liberal biases. You keep telling yourself that. If anything, reality is conservative. Ever heard of the law of conservation of matter and energy? Or, do they even teach that in liberal arts schools?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:01AM
Why don't you take yourself to some ghetto
...
Sitting snug in the middle of academia,
...
If anything, reality is conservative. Ever heard of the law of conservation of matter and energy?
Yeah, you aren't triggered at all.
snicker
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:45AM
You know who says you are right?
All the racists who don't want to acknowledge their racism.
That's your cue runaway.
Thanks for doing your part!
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:33AM
Australian law would disagree. Journalist Andrew Bolt was sued under Section 18c of the Racial Discrimination Act [theaustralian.com.au] by putting forward his opinion that fair-skinned Aboriginal people who 'looked' caucasian were claiming Aboriginal heritage to gain advantage in society (qualify for affirmative action, grants, government programs etc). The fact that it's illegal to voice that opinion is a separate discussion, but the point is that the courts here have confirmed that race does not purely rest upon what you look like.
US parallel would include people who are 1/8 or 1/16 Native American.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday May 01 2017, @06:52PM (43 children)
The nature of anti-muslim discrimination in the US(and some other places) has a disproportionate likelihood to center on easily visible characteristics that often have nothing to do with the actual religion practiced by by the victims of such discrimination, such as accent, skin color, or dress. See: violent attacks on Sikhs, or the horrendously common believe that Barack Obama is Muslim.
This coincides tightly with assertions about Muslim majority countries that tacitly imply a universality to actions by local tin-pot dictators or low-education/low-income highly traditionalist groups without even a token effort made towards reconciling the specific people engaged in shitty behavior X with the more modern or liberal people who are clearly opposed to it the same story.
Taken together these create a scenario where the amount of racism is basically inversely proportional to the effort made by the bigot presenting it to intellectualize their banal and simplistic thinking.
Right wingers, absolutely adore the "What's racist about this (thing that is bigoted in different way and synergizes deeply with racist undercurrents)?" reply, and I'll be honest, I've still not decided if it's purposeful deceit or just a lack of critical thinking about the very question their asking that makes it so common.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by EvilSS on Monday May 01 2017, @07:06PM (32 children)
(Score: 2, Redundant) by ikanreed on Monday May 01 2017, @07:34PM (31 children)
In no way, shape, or form, is that a reasonable re-articulation of what I said. Not even the most tortured reading I can give myself.
Calling it racist, is, at worst, a simplification of more complex problems, and under other circumstances, totally warranted.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @07:43PM (4 children)
In fact, one could argue that labeling it racist is, in itself, a racist act.
In no way, shape, or form, is that a reasonable re-articulation of what I said. Not even the most tortured reading I can give myself.
When will you libturds learn?
The Real Racists™ are the people who think critically about race.
If it weren't for you, there would be no racism.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @08:02PM (3 children)
The Real Racists™ are the people who think critically about race.
No. Racism is about exerting power.
Specifically, it is about a majority[1] with one set of shared physical characteristics seeking to disempower a minority with a different set of shared physical characteristics or deny them their civil liberties.
[1] With demographics shifting such that Whites are no longer the majority in USA, that should probably be altered to "group with a traditional majority" or "group previously having a majority".
Any way you slice it, it's about an empowered group.
I hope this clears it up for you.
...but I doubt that it will penetrate your thick Reactionary skull as you continue to consume Breitbart and Faux Noise.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday May 01 2017, @08:16PM (2 children)
Is this one of those "I don't get sarcasm" posts? I love those.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @08:31PM (1 child)
I've been known to miss the /sarc tag before, so, it could be as you say.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @08:56PM
You seem to have missed the trademark tag too.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday May 01 2017, @08:20PM (24 children)
1) Let's looks at this one in a slightly different light (and assume being a muslim majority country had anything to do with it, which I disagree with but it's in the summary so let's run with it). Let's say instead of Malaysia, it was Maryland, and instead of pointing out that it was a muslim majority, pointing out it was a christian majority. Therefore if this summary had been posted on a Malaysian majority website (MalaylentNews, for example), you would agree it was a racist thing to call out Christianity?
2) Lets look at it from another angle: Same story, same summary, but posted by christain Malaysians. Racist, even though they are the same actual race as the people in the story?
3) A newspaper in the middle east derides the political influence the christian west is having on their local politics and laws. Racist?
If you can't answer yes to all three of those, then it's inappropriate to call racism on this summary, and it's RACIST TO ACCEPT calling it racism, because you are basing that call purely on the race of the Malaysian Muslims in comparison to your own (and your assumptions about the submitter's) race. This type of dilution to try to turn something like racism into an over-encompassing catch all doesn't help, it actually harms those who are the subject of actual racism. Religious persecution and intolerance is a thing, and it's valid to call it out when it shows up. Calling religious intolerance racism is not, can not, be accepted as appropriate just because you (generalized you, not you in specific) feel it lends more weight to the claim. Calling intolerance to muslims racist actually harmful since it itself enforces the idea that only certain races are or can be muslim. By doing it, or even being tolerant of it, you are reinforcing and justifying a wrong-headed stereotype.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday May 01 2017, @08:28PM (7 children)
Hey, look, the intellectualization to hide naked bigotry that I was talking about.
"If I carefully craft scenarios clearly distinct from this one that still have substantial undercurrents of bigotry surely your observations about this specific scenario don't hold up, right"
Hey, maybe you're too self-absorbed to see how this is pure rationalization, but seriously, you're not raising a valid point.
Way to completely and utterly miss the point of my first post.
Hypotheticals don't absolve the deep and unending stupidity of going "Hey, I'm going to draw attention to this group I clearly hate without relavent context as if to blame them for this incident".
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @08:58PM
I'm beginning to think "EvilSS" is an ironic name.
I get the feeling he's probably more of a fan of the SS.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by EvilSS on Monday May 01 2017, @10:37PM (2 children)
Let's look at the article again. Do you really think calling out Malaysia is a racist act, or a religious intolerant one? I doubt the submitter even know WHAT race Malaysians are, nor does he/she probably care. I also doubt religion would have been called out if the country were, say, Singapore (a majority Buddhist country which shares the same landmass as Malaysia). So no, it's not racism, it's pure religious intolerance.
My bigger problem is with people like yourself who seems to think only certain races can be Muslim, and therefore think that any criticism, right or wrong, towards a religion of billions across nearly every race on the planet must really be aimed at those specific races you stereotype as being Muslim. That is bigoted thought.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 02 2017, @12:55PM (1 child)
No, I'm not confused, your logic is tortured and seems to exist purely to excuse bigotry.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:17PM
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:59AM (2 children)
There are white, black, Persian, Arab, and Asian Muslims. Likewise, Christians, Hindus, etc. Religious persecution is NOT based on racism. The two things have several things in common, of course, but they are different things. Confusing and conflating the two things only brings your own intelligence and education into question.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:49AM
You keep making those unsupported proclamations.
Its like you are threatened by a world-view that doesn't fit your brain and as a defensive reflex you are compelled to tell the world that these ideas which make you uncomfortable are wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @05:32PM
The weird thing is I think all of this silly arguing is stemming from a comment that was meant to be a troll.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @10:17PM
He couldn't even address the point and moves to deflect. Clearly, he's a liberal.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday May 01 2017, @10:30PM (14 children)
2) Lets look at it from another angle: Same story, same summary, but posted by christain Malaysians. Racist, even though they are the same actual race as the people in the story?
You mean Homo Sapiens? AFAIK, there's only one sentient species on this planet. Malaysian people are Homo Sapiens, Maryland people (okay, except for the lizard people) are also homo sapiens. Christians are Homo Sapiens. Muslims are Homo Sapiens.
Is my taxonomy wrong? If not, I have no idea what you're going on about.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday May 01 2017, @10:39PM (13 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @11:50PM (12 children)
LOL
You are a literal dictionary pedant.
And like ALL dictionary pedants you just assumed that your personal definition is the only definition in the dictionary.
Lets take a look at what the dictionary actually says.
Remember, this is the dictionary you just cited.
race: [oxforddictionaries.com]
1.2 A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
Examples:
‘we Scots were a bloodthirsty race then’
‘Christina had thought the German Swiss a hard unsympathetic race.’
‘We are trying to find out why the British as a race find it amazingly funny to take their clothes off.’
‘We Scots might be handsome but, as a race, we're not renowned for our height.’
‘They sought to weld the country's diverse ethnicities into a Brazilian race defined in historical and cultural terms.’
‘For Barres, this constituted a menace to the French nation, indeed to the French race, for it was a German ideology.’
1.3 A group or set of people or things with a common feature or features.
Examples:
‘the upper classes thought of themselves as a race apart’
‘They are not a race apart - it could happen to any one of us at any time.’
‘This sedentary behaviour is apparently turning our kids into a race of slothful fatties who risk a reduced lifespan and other problems.’
‘They treat the elderly like they treat travellers or gays or ethnic groups or women or whoever as a race apart, not as normal citizens.’
‘And the Kembles, as one Victorian novelist's daughter observed, strode through the world as a race apart.’
‘He rejected environmental factors and claimed to have discovered a race of ‘born criminals’, who were marked out by certain cranial and facial irregularities.’
‘Forget stockies or naturally reproducing brown trout, saltwater sea trout are a race apart.’
‘As a matter of fact isn't ‘redneck’ a word used in disdain to describe a race and class of people?’
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @12:20AM (11 children)
LOL
You are a literal dictionary pedant.
And like ALL dictionary pedants you just assumed that your personal definition is the only definition in the dictionary.
Lets take a look at what the dictionary actually says.
Remember, this is the dictionary you just cited.
I'd "lol" you, but it's not funny, just sad, AC. You were beating up on someone that actually agreed with you. I could make a few guesses as to what that says about you, but I'll hold my tongue.
GP was responding to my post [soylentnews.org].
He implied (as did you, although you were cruder about it) that "race" doesn't refer to species, but rather to ethnic and cultural groups. While it is true that the word is used in that fashion colloquially [oxforddictionaries.com] (I include the definition, since it's even money that you don't know what it means), the term has significant historical baggage (phrenology, scientific racism, and a raft of other unpleasantness) which are distasteful to say the least. As such, terms like ethnicity, cultural groupings and societal differences are both more specific and more accurate in this context. Perhaps I should have just said that, but I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that was clearly implied.
Other terms are more appropriate than "race" in this context [wikipedia.org]:
That was *my* (not EvilSS', and I imagine he disagrees with me) point. I assume you disagree as well. That's all fine with me.
Shall we discuss, or is quoting from the dictionary all you've got?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:36AM (2 children)
Sorry man, I gave you more credit than apparently you were due.
EvilSS's other posts make it clear he thinks race is not cultural.
I thought you were being slyly ironic. Making fun of his limited concept of race.
Instead you were bragging about your even more limited understanding of race.
The other end of Poe's Law bites me in the ass!
Enjoy your wikipedia entries. Seems pretty clear you didn't really read them very carefully either.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:13AM (1 child)
Sorry man, I gave you more credit than apparently you were due.
EvilSS's other posts make it clear he thinks race is not cultural.
I thought you were being slyly ironic. Making fun of his limited concept of race.
Instead you were bragging about your even more limited understanding of race.
The other end of Poe's Law bites me in the ass!
Enjoy your wikipedia entries. Seems pretty clear you didn't really read them very carefully either.
You're rather obnoxious, friend. If you disagree with my assertion that the term "race," while colloquially associated with ethnic or religious groups, is a poor stand in for more appropriate terms like ethnicity, culture and geographical differences, that's fine.
I invited you to discuss this with me, however you made no arguments to support your point of view. Rather, you made dismissive and disparaging comments about EvilSS and me instead. Those are not arguments.
If you'd like to make some actual arguments as to why you think you're right, I'd love to hear them. I'll respond with my own arguments and we can either come to an understanding or agree to disagree. We call that sort of discourse "discussion." Perhaps you could try it sometime.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:59AM
I invited you to discuss this with me, however you made no arguments to support your point of view. Rather, you made dismissive and disparaging comments about EvilSS and me instead. Those are not arguments.
Do not pretend that your very first sentence to me was nothing more than condescension.
Here it is again in case your intellectually superior memory has failed you:
I'd "lol" you, but it's not funny, just sad, AC. You were beating up on someone that actually agreed with you. I could make a few guesses as to what that says about you, but I'll hold my tongue.
You then quickly followed that with more condescension:
(I include the definition, since it's even money that you don't know what it means),
Your 'invitation' was nothing more than the smug conceit of someone with unexamined logic.
Frankly the reason I'm not interested in discussing this with you is that your entire argument boils down to "here are some other words which I think you should use instead of 'race' because your use of one of the dictionary definitions of race perturbs me."
Tough titties.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:55AM (7 children)
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:36AM (6 children)
I mean, are you arguing that there are not races, and therefore there is no racism? If so, I think there are quite a few people around the world who would like to have a word with you about that. You cannot deny one without the other. You can argue the terminology all you like but it's a fact that in the real world, races exist, and that has consequences.
No. There's plenty of bigotry to go around in the world.
However, calling it racism hearkens back the the days when it was acceptable to split up groups of humans by purely cosmetic traits and call them "races."
We now know that the hairless bipeds infesting this planet are all the same species. The Human Race. We are, the world over, ~99.5% genetically identical [wikipedia.org].
Is using cosmetic traits as a source for bigotry a bad idea? I think so. In fact, I think bigotry [merriam-webster.com] in general is small-minded and hateful.
While you may disagree with me that the term bigotry should be used instead of racism, that doesn't make racism something other than bigotry.
And if we are interested in calling out bigotry while focusing on the things that make us the same, racism, IMHO, is a poor term to use, for all the reasons I stated in my response to AC troll.
I suggest (irony intended) calling a spade a spade. What is colloquially referred to as "racism" is bigotry. Calling it "racism" gives (for historical reasons) legitimacy to the idea that not all humans are *real* humans. which is one of the sources of such bigotry.
I will repeat myself. There is only one sentient race on this planet. Homo Sapiens. We are different in cosmetic (skin & eye color, etc.) and physiological (XX vs. XY chromosome -- you know, male and female, height, athletic abilities, intellectual capacity, vulnerability to various diseases, etc., etc., etc.) characteristics. However, for all of that, we are one species.
It's also true that we divide ourselves up into groups in many ways. Ethnically, religiously, ideologically, levels of resources, age and in a myriad of other ways.
When someone is intolerant of others because of those physical and cultural differences, we call that bigotry. Singling out any particular type of bigotry gives it more legitimacy. I think that's a poor idea.
I say that bigotry should be called out for the hateful speech and actions that it is. I do not believe we should give some forms of bigotry more prominence than others, as they are all repugnant.
Feel free to disagree. I'd be happy to discuss this at length with you. At least you're willing to make an actual argument, unlike others who chose to remain nameless.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:15PM (5 children)
However, how many "peoples" do you think there are? You don't seem like the kind of person unable to distinguish the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. I refrain from using my usual hilarious mis-spelling "Parasites", as I wouldn't want to taint this thread with peoplism.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:57PM (4 children)
However, how many "peoples" do you think there are? You don't seem like the kind of person unable to distinguish the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. I refrain from using my usual hilarious mis-spelling "Parasites", as I wouldn't want to taint this thread with peoplism.
As I said:
There are thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of, as you say, "peoples." We humans are quite prolific at creating groups of ourselves.
Those groups can be based on shared geography, lineage, cosmetic traits, language, interests, ideology, religious belief and all manner of other things.
Even with all the groupings and differences that are forced, chosen or accidental, as humans we have much more in common than we have differences.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday May 03 2017, @11:56PM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday May 04 2017, @12:09AM (2 children)
Yeah, but we're all "people". Take any two people from any two "peoples", and they'd both be "people", no?
That isn't the context in which you used the term in the post I replied to, but sure, why not?
But since you're splitting hairs, I'll do so too. We are each a "person," not a people.
All the same, if you want to look at it that way, there are up to ~3.5 billion "peoples."
How wonderful for us!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday May 04 2017, @12:15AM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday May 04 2017, @12:17AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:09AM
I like how evilss modded you redundant.
Its clear it was evil and not someone else because
(a) he was modded redundant and then within a few minutes you got a redundant mod
(b) but whoever down-modded you didn't mod his post back up, because they can't mod their own posts.
like a bitchy little tit-for-tat
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @07:09PM
Right wingers, absolutely adore the "What's racist about this (thing that is bigoted in different way and synergizes deeply with racist undercurrents)?" reply, and I'll be honest, I've still not decided if it's purposeful deceit or just a lack of critical thinking about the very question their asking that makes it so common.
Online, pedantry is the last refugee of a scoundrel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @08:03PM (6 children)
It is now OK to be racist in the USA because liberals have overused the term and thereby changed the definition to "non-liberal" or "republican". I'm proud to be a racist!
Meanwhile, we ought to come up with a word to describe discrimination that relates to coarse-grained ethnic physical traits, such as the idea that people who look like Africans can't succeed without special assistance. How about geomorphism or geomorphobia or geomorphphobia?
Of course, none of this matters if our culture is wiped out. Start with a glass of water, and start adding pee. At first it's just "interesting" water, kind of multi-liquid. Gallons later you won't recognize your mixture as water. It's like that when you add 3rd-world people to a 1st-world country. There will be no western civilization. There will be no LGBT rights. There will be no women's rights. But hey, the fundie Christians will be gone, so it's all good, right?
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday May 01 2017, @08:19PM
"Is there some moral imperative to not being a bigoted fuckwit? I'll be an actively awful person to support my team in politics"
--literally every idiot who thinks they're smart.
We need some dead racists every now and then so intellectual cowards whose only concern is for social judgement, like you, don't go chasing every single neofascist who goes up for election.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @09:17PM (4 children)
Start with a glass of water, and start adding pee.
It says something weird about you that you want to pee in your glass of water.
Myself, I like chocolate in my milk. Or chai. Sometimes matcha.
Cardamom is nice too. Now that I think about it, I could really go for some thai iced-tea.
Thanks for giving me the idea.
I hope you can enjoy your "interesting" water as much as I am going to enjoy my thai iced-tea.
To each their own!
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:12AM (3 children)
Drinking too much sugar is bad for you; it's much healthier to drink plain water most of the time.
This shows why analogies really should be avoided more often.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:39AM (2 children)
Nah. It shows how aspies frequently miss the forest for the trees.
Literalism for the fail!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @12:06PM (1 child)
Don't tie bigotry to mental conditions, sure it may be a fun insult but you're insulting a separate group to attack another one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @05:09PM
Who said grish was a bigot?
His post was just textbook aspie literalism.
PS I am an aspie, it takes one to know one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:34AM
I think it is not purposeful, though I'm sure some do like trolling people with their "subtlety". Many bigots think they aren't so, they just have "legitimate" complaints ha! So they do mental gymnastics to try and dispel the fact that they are to some degree bigoted little shits. It is a very common human condition and affects liberals as well. Many liberal yuppy types will fear a group of black kids because that is what society has programmed them to think. It isn't on a conscious level, and I'm sure it distresses those who don't want to have such thoughts, but if controlling the brain was that simple we'd all be Chossu Meguazi.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @07:15PM
Wait, are you trying to tell me that Barack HOUSSEIN Obama, with a first name that sounds suspiciously similar to "Iraq" and a last name that sounds even more suspiciously like "Osama" is not a Muslim?
Christopher Zaxxar Travers [theinfosphere.org] would like a word with you.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday May 01 2017, @09:47PM (5 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @12:01AM (3 children)
Nope. The definition of racism hasn't changed in recent history.
Its just that the definition you learned in kindergarten is inadequate for an adult understanding of the topic.
Stop clinging to the ignorant conceits of childhood and join the rest of us in an adult conversation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:29AM (2 children)
No matter how hard you clench your fists and stamp your feet, reality will not bend to your warped ideas. Your lies, repeated often enough, will not ever become fact.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:06AM (1 child)
You are talking about Arik the kindergartner, right?
Or are you describing your own personal frustration when faced with a more complex world than you can wrap your head around?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday May 08 2017, @02:34AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @07:31PM
I don't know what race your font is, but there is something seriously wrong with it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 01 2017, @10:08PM
Islam is a religion, not a race you dumb fuck.