SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
'We don't want to be an office:' Café owners are pulling the plug on WiFi
When HotBlack Coffee opened in downtown Toronto a year ago, it took a risk few businesses would dare take in today's online-driven world: it turned off the WiFi.
"Every day people come in and ask for it," says Jimson Bienenstock, the café's co-owner.
Still, he hasn't wavered.
"In the short term, it hurt us," Mr. Bienenstock says. "It took us longer to become established, but once we reached critical mass, it has become a self-fulfilling virtuous circle."
While most cafés offer free WiFi, including large chains such as Starbucks, McDonald's and Tim Hortons, HotBlack is among a small but growing number of independent coffee shops choosing to ditch or limit Internet use. By not offering WiFi, they're hoping to create more of a community atmosphere where people talk to each other instead of silently typing on their computers.
If coffeeshops come to discourage people working, perhaps that activity can shift to libraries.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:07AM (28 children)
I hate coffee shops.
A bunch of assholes come in and monopolize all the tables in the place for hours on end.
When I used to go to such places, I want to drink a cup of coffee and perhaps eat a pastry.
Every time I go into one of these places, even if not all the seats are taken, these cheap fucks have their bags and laptops and sundry materials strewn everywhere. As such, there's no space to have a cuppa and a danish.
Fuck those people. Make them spare Wifi *outside* the restaurant just like the other bums spare change there.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:15AM (4 children)
You sound like an asshole. I bet you use the wifi and you don't give your change to the bums either.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:39AM (3 children)
You sound like an asshole. I bet you use the wifi and you don't give your change to the bums either.
Nope. I don't go to those places any more. And if I did, I would be so disrespectful as those fuckheads who think the place is their office.
Oh, and fuck you!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:40AM (2 children)
Nope. I don't go to those places any more. And if I did, I wouldn't be so disrespectful as those fuckheads who think the place is their office.
There. FTFM.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 3, Funny) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday May 02 2017, @05:07AM (1 child)
... I wouldn't be so disrespectful...
There. FTFM.
Actually, I thought the original was better.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Tuesday May 02 2017, @11:28AM
Yeah he came off as angry then tapered off to niceness. 'would' was telling such a nice story.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:39AM (7 children)
I don't understand your last sentence, but when I was homeless I would sometimes use the Wi-fi from outside of a coffee shop. I seldom went inside because the food and drink there were expensive. If you're saying you don't mind homeless people using the Wi-fi at your coffee shop so long as they stay outside, thank you for that.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:46AM (3 children)
I don't understand your last sentence, but when I was homeless I would sometimes use the Wi-fi from outside of a coffee shop. I seldom went inside because the food and drink there were expensive. If you're saying you don't mind homeless people using the Wi-fi at your coffee shop so long as they stay outside, thank you for that.
When I was homeless, there was no such thing as WiFi. And even if there had been, I wouldn't have had the resources to get a device capable of using it. I spent a lot of time dumpster-diving and shoplifting to feed myself. At other times, I'd try stay sane by interacting with people and finding ways to make a few bucks.
I used the phrase because it kind of fits with the folks I was talking about. Who, apparently, have no place to go in order to do whatever it is they do. I suspect that those who monopolize coffee shops actually do have such resources, unlike those who might be sparing change outside. As such, they would be less worthy of the space *outside* the coffee shop than the homeless people.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @06:57AM (2 children)
The internet is one of the few ways homeless can communicate and try to re-insert themselves into the system.
Something is telling me this homeless problem will keep festering until it does in America. All the ownership class doing their rent-seeking thing, and all the working class begging for handouts. The banks will end up owning everything.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @08:11AM (1 child)
It's the 20th century all over again. We're in the Great Depression. All we need is a catalyst to start another World War. Data caps are rationing. Bring back the draft. Nuke China.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:24PM
All we need is a catalyst to start another World War.
Don't worry. We've got several lined up.
Trump! Trump! Trump!
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @06:28AM (2 children)
This seems like abuse of the 'spam' mod to me. I'm not sure what makes it 'spam' or even deserving of a downmod.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 02 2017, @06:44AM
My guess is some first world snowflake wants to keep the homeless out of sight and out of mind.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 02 2017, @10:54AM
I have no idea if it was intentional or an accident with the Home key/scroll wheel but it's taken care of.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by archfeld on Tuesday May 02 2017, @05:13AM
Sounds like the Starbucks near my house. I drop in and get a Mocha several times a week and the place looks like the common area in a Dorm on the night before exam week starts.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bradley13 on Tuesday May 02 2017, @11:29AM (7 children)
I hate coffee shops. A bunch of assholes come in and monopolize all the tables in the place for hours on end.
Why do people go into a coffee shop? Basically no one goes there to "just" drink a coffee. Maybe they want to chat with a friend. Maybe they want to read a book. Maybe they need to write a couple of emails on their laptop. I don't understand why another person's choice of activity has any impact on you.
If it's a coffee shop you value, talk to the management. Maybe they want to think about which clientele they want to appeal to. If some people are occupying tables without purchasing anything (or enough), the staff is justified in asking them to leave. If they *are* consuming, then ask yourself why your patronage is any more important than theirs...
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday May 02 2017, @11:40AM (2 children)
In NYC coffee shops are the place you go to have business meetings, if you don't have your own office (if, say, you're a freelancer of some kind). It is quite difficult to find other meeting space that's large enough and quiet enough and specific enough ("Meet me in Central Park" doesn't quite work).
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:28PM
In NYC coffee shops are the place you go to have business meetings, if you don't have your own office (if, say, you're a freelancer of some kind). It is quite difficult to find other meeting space that's large enough and quiet enough and specific enough ("Meet me in Central Park" doesn't quite work).
And I've had quite a few meetings in such places. As well as bars, restaurants and other similar places.
Meeting in Central Park (depending on the context) can be quite productive. "Meet me at Bethesda Fountain," or "Let's have lunch at the Boathouse," or "let's meet at Cleopatra's Needle." The issue is more that it's generally not near most folks' place of business, not that it's inconvenient, IMHO.
Interestingly, I find that coffee shops in Midtown are often less crowded during the day (not counting the morning rush and mid-afternoon) than those in more residential areas.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:47PM
and specific enough ("Meet me in Central Park" doesn't quite work)
That's why you give them GPS coordinates for your meeting place. If they're too stupid to figure out how to get there, then they aren't worth meeting.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday May 02 2017, @12:06PM
Because its the oldest story in the history of economics, my $7 is worth less to me than a cup of coffee so I'm pissed I can't make the exchange with someone who prefers my $7 more than owning a cup of coffee? I mean the NYSE or chicago commodity pits never said "nah we're full" to anyone.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:46PM (1 child)
Why do people go into a coffee shop? Basically no one goes there to "just" drink a coffee.
Just to note: this is a very American perspective. Having hung out at many French and Italian cafes/bars (espresso is often found in "bars" in Italy), there are lots of folks who just come in and drink a coffee/espresso/cafe creme. Particularly popular in places with outdoor seating. Yes, the "regulars" will often chat a bit, but mostly they're just there for a cup in the morning or an afternoon "pick me up" or whatever.
Also, even in the U.S., many coffee shops in walkable busy central squares in cities cater to these sorts of folks too. They just want to come in and generally have a quick cup. Nowadays with "to-go" cups as the default most places, it's more rare, but people used to just sit down and drink for 10-15 minutes or whatever. Also, I know this makes me sound like an "old geezer," but people used to be content just sitting somewhere for 10-15 minutes without pulling out a smartphone or laptop or whatever for distraction. I'm NOT saying these trends are some sort of "end of civilization" or whatever others might say, but people really DID come to just sit and drink coffee before wifi and constant connectivity became so common.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday May 03 2017, @12:48AM
Just sit outside in the shade of a Provence sycamore tree. Have a drink and a bite. Chat with friends. Watch people walking by. Chat with random table doing the same. Check the Asian tourists looking for buildings and missing the point. Walk away after an hour or two, less if the place is full.
Southern European know how to properly enjoy wasting time...
(Score: 2) by gidds on Wednesday May 03 2017, @12:52PM
Yeah; but none of that squares with their stated reason for blocking wifi:
I don't visit coffee shops very often, but if I do, then it might be with a group of people so I can enjoy a conversation with them. If so, then extraneous noise isn't a benefit.
Or it might be to chill out and read a book. If so, then extraneous noise isn't a benefit.
Or it might be to kill time before doing something else. If so, then extraneous noise isn't a benefit.
In fact, extraneous noise isn't a benefit for any possible reason I can think of for visiting!
So why on earth would anyone choose a coffee shop for its high noise level?!
[sig redacted]
(Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Tuesday May 02 2017, @12:37PM (3 children)
Ah... The wonderful people of the twenty-first century. I don't like what you are doing, therefore you should have no right to do it. This is why we are drowning in laws that micromanage every aspect of our lives. Left, right, center: Everybody is looking to authority to shut down anything they dislike.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:19PM (2 children)
Ah... The wonderful people of the twenty-first century. I don't like what you are doing, therefore you should have no right to do it. This is why we are drowning in laws that micromanage every aspect of our lives. Left, right, center: Everybody is looking to authority to shut down anything they dislike.
Exactly. Which is why I have my city councilman and state/federal representatives on speed dial. So I can demand that everyone do exactly what I want all the time.
Not so familiar with the rhetorical flourish, are we? Or just so embedded in your faux "left" vs. "right" political narrative that everything has to have an ideological motive?
I dislike most coffee shops. Not least because of the entitled jerks who monopolize the space. As such, I vote with my feet and wallet and don't frequent them. That makes me a micromanaging moron "looking to authority to shut down anything I dislike?"
It's comments like yours which inspired me to introduce HR 1337, "The Internet Restrictions On Literal-Minded Morons Act of 2017" It should be coming to the floor soon.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Oakenshield on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:15PM (1 child)
Huh? I believe that my point was that the overwhelming desire to control others and their behavior is irrespective of political affiliation.
No, it makes you a self-entitled asshole. It is clear from your original post that you believe that others' usage of coffee shops and cafes that do not coincide with your "preferred" ideal of the proper way to enjoy them is less important than yours. I rarely frequent Panera Bread anymore because I find it difficult to get a table due to the large numbers of "office space" clientele, but I never consider them "cheap fucks" or offer any desire to see them pushed outside to use WiFi. In fact, they are just as entitled to use the space as I am.
Appeal to authority to control other people's behavior is a common issue that cuts across all of the political spectrum. Nobody seems to be able to live and let live if they find behavior distasteful or annoying nor makes any attempts to be gracious or courteous. The result is that there are way too many self-entitled assholes that love to vote in politicians that work hard to prohibit any behavior that they find objectionable, regardless of whether or not there is anyone truly affected. Am I accusing you of writing letters to your Congressman to prohibit WiFi in restaurants? No, but I can see from your writing that you are an angry individual with a desire for control over others with which you disagree or find yourself inconvenienced.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:35PM
Appeal to authority to control other people's behavior is a common issue that cuts across all of the political spectrum. Nobody seems to be able to live and let live if they find behavior distasteful or annoying nor makes any attempts to be gracious or courteous. The result is that there are way too many self-entitled assholes that love to vote in politicians that work hard to prohibit any behavior that they find objectionable, regardless of whether or not there is anyone truly affected. Am I accusing you of writing letters to your Congressman to prohibit WiFi in restaurants? No, but I can see from your writing that you are an angry individual with a desire for control over others with which you disagree or find yourself inconvenienced.
Your wildly inaccurate assessment of me and my attitudes evoked a belly laugh. Thanks!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:58PM
Quark says: It sounds like an opportunity [offensive-security.com] to me.
It's one thing that hackers might set up a fake evil WiFi hotspot at a coffee shop. But it's even more amusing when the coffee shop doesn't have it's own WiFi. The evil hotspot will get everyone looking for a hotspot.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday May 03 2017, @12:18AM
Exactly. From the OP:
If coffeeshops come to discourage people working, perhaps that activity can shift to libraries.
How about if they work in the place that's specifically created to have people working in it? "Offices", I believe they're called. You can find them all over the place. In fact, people will even pay you good money to work in them, often with healthcare benefits, paid holidays, and other extras. How's that for a win/win situation?