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'We don't want to be an office:' Café owners are pulling the plug on WiFi
When HotBlack Coffee opened in downtown Toronto a year ago, it took a risk few businesses would dare take in today's online-driven world: it turned off the WiFi.
"Every day people come in and ask for it," says Jimson Bienenstock, the café's co-owner.
Still, he hasn't wavered.
"In the short term, it hurt us," Mr. Bienenstock says. "It took us longer to become established, but once we reached critical mass, it has become a self-fulfilling virtuous circle."
While most cafés offer free WiFi, including large chains such as Starbucks, McDonald's and Tim Hortons, HotBlack is among a small but growing number of independent coffee shops choosing to ditch or limit Internet use. By not offering WiFi, they're hoping to create more of a community atmosphere where people talk to each other instead of silently typing on their computers.
If coffeeshops come to discourage people working, perhaps that activity can shift to libraries.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:04PM (6 children)
I don't know - seems like a small minority of people have a data plan that can be used from a laptop, or spend large amounts of continuous time online on their phone (aside from watching videos).
I would imagine most people that want to go to a cafe and work online would simply go to a different cafe, leaving this one to cater to the people who *don't* want that. There was a time when coffee shops were centers of community and conversation...
(Score: 2) by ledow on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:43PM (2 children)
It's a gimmick, still.
You're saying "We don't want X type of customers." In the same way as the libraries and bookshops were historically disadvantaged by not offering wifi, computers, etc. and so people nearly stopped using them entirely, this guy will have the same problem.
Sure, some people will go there BECAUSE it doesn't have Wifi (not least the "Wifi is frying my brain" nuts that still have a phone strapped to their head 24 hours a day). But you've cut off the ones who want wifi.
Were they disturbing you? Were they not buying products?
People *chatting* in a cafe is a complete degree of separation from people actually buying things, the same as people sitting quietly browsing were also a degree of separation away. They could chat for hours over one coffee, or they could browse and keep the coffees coming for hours on end, there's no correlation there.
What they've done is determined an atmosphere they want, and imposed that on their customers, to the point that other customers are completely excluded. Over time, that's not a good business plan.
Now if the guys doing wifi WEREN'T BUYING STUFF, then of course it makes business sense to get rid of them.
But now if someone comes in and buys one coffee but stays there all day chatting, do you not have a worse problem?
And people go to a cafe for drinks. If they are there with smartphones out, they are not there to talk to each other. It doesn't mean that they still don't want drinks. Do people really engage with complete strangers on other tables more than happens by chance anyway? Because that would drive me mad if strangers were expecting to hold a conversation with me and I was just there for a quiet cup of coffee.
In any business, if you start saying "We don't want customer X", you have to consider what that means long-term. Whether that's a decimation of your customer base, or whether the category you exclude is someone that's costing you money or disturbing your patrons. Is a couple sitting opposite each other and not talking really disturbing your other patrons? I don't think so.
Trying to impose community is a guaranteed way to destroy it.
(Score: 2) by rondon on Tuesday May 02 2017, @01:52PM
I'm thinking you should read NotSanguine's response to see why customers using a coffee shop as an office is not always the best idea for the coffee shop.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday May 02 2017, @02:28PM
I have no problem with cafes offering wifi. I'm not quite sure why you have a problem with a cafe choosing NOT to have it.
Were they disturbing you?
Frequently coffee shops that have a lot of "working folks" fill up with individuals occupying all the tables. I've very frequently been in coffee shops where I couldn't sit down and enjoy a coffee because the cafe was only half full, since a lot of people were occupying tables that could have 2 or 3 people, but one person is "parked" at a table for the day with stuff sprawled out. And yes, you can sometimes ask to sit down at the same small table with those people, but even if you're not met with a sort of surly "I'm working here, sorry," at best you get to occupy a table with someone tapping away and staring at a screen.
Again, some cafes seem to have that environment. If they want to, that's their choice. I can also see how other people may prefer a different option for cafe "atmosphere."
Were they not buying products?
Yes, actually. I have a friend who worked at a coffee shop, and she said it was quite common for the laptop folks to buy a single coffee (often a small coffee) and sit at a table for many hours. Did people do that before wifi? Sure -- you'd get the occasional person who'd do that while reading a book. But I don't think it was as pervasive.
They could chat for hours over one coffee, or they could browse and keep the coffees coming for hours on end, there's no correlation there.
True -- You'd get an occasional pair of folks who sit down and have a conversation for 3 hours without buying more than 2 small coffees. But overall the "workers" often buy a lot less product than others in their long stays. For a busy coffee shop that could actually use the seating, this can be an issue.
What they've done is determined an atmosphere they want, and imposed that on their customers, to the point that other customers are completely excluded.
They're not "excluded." They're just less able to do SOME activities in a COFFEE shop that are unrelated to drinking coffee. They are certainly welcome to come and continue to drink coffee, have pastries, etc.
Over time, that's not a good business plan.
Depends. If it increases table turnover in a busy area where people use the coffee shop more like a "restaurant" than an office, it might actually significantly increase profits.
Do people really engage with complete strangers on other tables more than happens by chance anyway?
People used to, yeah. Kinda like people used to talk to each other in neighborhood bars. In fact, coffee shops were a big part of political movements in previous centuries [wikipedia.org] because they were places for people to meet and talk about important ideas. Not saying this was typical in the 1990s or whatever, but yeah -- people used to talk. And just like you can tell if someone at a bar isn't interested in talking, same thing at a coffee shop: you can always just tell people you're not interested in conversation.
Trying to impose community is a guaranteed way to destroy it.
Food and drink businesses have the right to set up whatever kind of atmosphere they want. Lots of bars or restaurants specifically cultivate a "quiet restaurant" or "noisy bar" or whatever kind of atmosphere through a combination of pricing, music, menu choices, service type, layout (e.g., barriers vs. open plan in various places), etc., etc. Although it's more rare these days, restaurants frequently used to have dress codes or guidelines if they wanted to encourage a certain type of atmosphere. Some places encourage kids with "kids menus"; others choose explicitly not to offer such things because they don't want to be "family restaurants." Do you have a problem with all of these things too? Can't a business decide anything about what sort of atmosphere it wants to have, and see whether some customers like it?
Anyhow, you keep ranting about how various things aren't connected to other things -- but please explain: what fundamental connection is there between wifi and coffee? Why should a business offering one necessarily offer the other? Aren't they just separate services, and this business is choosing to offer one? If it works for his customer base, why exactly are you harmed? Go somewhere else that has wifi.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday May 02 2017, @03:41PM (1 child)
I would imagine most people that want to go to a cafe and work online would simply go to a different cafe, leaving this one to cater to the people who *don't* want that. There was a time when coffee shops were centers of community and conversation...
When exactly was that? By my recollection, coffee shops as we know them now simply did not exist in most of the USA until about 15 years ago, and basically started (probably before that time) in the Pacific Northwest cities of Portland and Seattle. Several decades ago, there was no such thing as a "coffee shop"; people went to a diner for coffee, or they made Folgers at work.
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:29PM
From the mid 1600s through the early 1800s, though their social functions were gradually taken over by taverns, which tended to be more egalitarian (as well as far more common). After that, coffee houses were generally found in larger cities or places with large amounts of immigrants from countries with a strong coffee culture. They became fashionable again during the folk music revival in the 1960s, but generally only in the "hip" areas of cities or on college campuses. Elsewhere, as Grishnakh says, coffee houses were relatively uncommon until Starbucks.
Throughout all this time, however, coffeehouses have been places where deals were made, books were read and politics (and everything else) were discussed, at least until free wi-fi became ubiquitous and coffee shops became mobile workplaces.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday May 02 2017, @04:32PM
There was a time when coffee shops were centers of community and conversation
Yes, during alcohol prohibition! Taverns are where you go to find someone to talk to these days, coffee shops are where you you work on your spreadsheet.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org