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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday May 03 2017, @12:06PM   Printer-friendly
from the talk-to-your-kids dept.

The controversial show about teen suicide millions of your friends on Twitter are talking about is getting increased content warnings.

The move is the latest in the conversation about the Netflix original program "13 Reasons Why", coming as a response to the backlash and concern about the show's suitability for young viewers.

The streamer released a statement Monday promising to "add an additional viewer warning card before the first episode." It has also "strengthened the messaging and resource language in the existing cards for episodes that contain graphic subject matter, including the URL 13ReasonsWhy.info."

Mental health organisations in Australia reported increased calls and emails since the program's launch in March. In April, New Zealand's classification body ruled that Netflix would have to display a clear warning for the entire series as well as individual episodes, branding it with the region's first ever RP18 rating. The new classification -- created for the program -- recommends people under the age of 18 watch the program only under the supervision of a parent or guardian.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @12:32PM (18 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @12:32PM (#503584)

    Mental health organisations in Australia reported increased calls and emails since the program's launch in March.

    From the context, I think this is meant as something bad, with the implicit assumption the problems are caused by the show. But I think it could rather be a good sign: Viewers who already have those issues get aware that it's not just them, and seek help.

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday May 03 2017, @01:38PM (7 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @01:38PM (#503613)

    There are many many people who live under the delusion that if you don't talk about something, it doesn't happen. For example, the people that like to pretend domestic abuse wasn't a problem until feminist groups started organizing shelters and services for victims about 40 years ago. Or the people who think that educating kids about sex is the same thing as encouraging them to have it. Or those that think eliminating the words "nigger", "wetback", "kike", and other slurs from the English language will eliminate racism.

    Suicide is an extremely common cause of death among teenagers and young adults. We should be talking about it and creating artwork about it, so that we can deal with it.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday May 03 2017, @01:56PM (6 children)

      by linkdude64 (5482) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @01:56PM (#503625)
      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday May 03 2017, @02:53PM (5 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @02:53PM (#503657)

        I have no idea what your link has to do with my point. Care to explain?

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday May 03 2017, @03:27PM (4 children)

          by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @03:27PM (#503685) Journal

          My guess, politicians think white male suicides is a good thing and don't care?

          (not that they would care about anything that won't line their pockets or produce votes)

          • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday May 03 2017, @05:31PM

            by linkdude64 (5482) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @05:31PM (#503782)

            You win a cookie!

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @06:03PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @06:03PM (#503802)

            From actually reading the article his point seems to be:

            Even though I know the video has been edited into a lie, I still prefer the lie over the truth.
            Alt-truth, making america great!

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @06:57PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @06:57PM (#503850)

              Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!

          • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday May 03 2017, @10:54PM

            by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @10:54PM (#504022)

            Which, if it were true (which it isn't), still has nothing to do with my point about how there is nothing to be gained by censorship. My guess is that the person who posted that link saw my uncensored use of ethnic slurs as an simple indication that racist material should go on this thread, as if I was using those terms in support of racism (which I wasn't).

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday May 03 2017, @03:03PM (7 children)

    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @03:03PM (#503661) Journal

    the implicit assumption the problems are caused by the show.

    I don't think anyone's claiming that a healthy teen in good spirits will be driven to suicide by the show. The concern, if anything, is that documenting a suicide and a rationale for one in detail might cause some who are already depressed to empathize and perhaps go further down that path.

    But I think it could rather be a good sign: Viewers who already have those issues get aware that it's not just them, and seek help.

    You're probably right. That may happen for some. But the show apparently has some graphic depictions of elements related to the suicide (and things that drove it), not to mention the main character successfully does commit suicide (that's not really a spoiler, since it's apparently revealed early in the first episode). Your logic depends on the idea that witnessing another's suicide will somehow "wake a person up" and cause them to get help. In reality, witnessing another's suicide is often a trigger for others who are already depressed, since it can embolden others and justify the action (even if the rationale behind the triggering suicide seems objectively poor to "healthy" folks).

    Wikipedia has a review [wikipedia.org] of what a number of mental health professionals have had to say. As one of the counselors says there, it's unlikely that one show is going to trigger suicide -- but without context, there's a concern about how this show could be perceived by someone who already views suicide as a possible option.

    [To be clear, I'm NOT arguing the series shouldn't have been made or shouldn't be distributed freely or whatever. I also haven't watched it, but it sounds like some reasonable caution about viewing is in order.]

    • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday May 03 2017, @04:39PM (5 children)

      by Immerman (3985) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @04:39PM (#503751)

      However, the people contacting mental health services are almost certainly going to fall into the realm of those who have been emboldened into seeking help, or who are recognizing potential warning signs in their loved ones. As such, an increase in such contacts has essentially nothing to do with any real risks of increasing the odds of suicide, if anything it's evidence of the exact opposite.

      Now, if they saw an uptick in actual suicide attempts rather than in people seeking help... then maybe there's a problem. As it is, at worst there's maybe cause to pay closer attention to any potential warning signs of more destructive trends that haven't yet been noticed.

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday May 03 2017, @05:30PM (4 children)

        by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @05:30PM (#503781) Journal

        Here also lies an assumption that mental health services actually will improve matters.. ;)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @06:05PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @06:05PM (#503807)

          Here also lies an assumption that anybody who works to improve the world is a loser because you personally are too incompetent to contribute anything of value to the world.

          • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday May 03 2017, @08:21PM

            by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @08:21PM (#503921) Journal

            The path to hell is paved with good intentions comes to mind..

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday May 04 2017, @12:37AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 04 2017, @12:37AM (#504082) Journal

            Here also lies an assumption that anybody who works to improve the world is a loser because you personally are too incompetent to contribute anything of value to the world.

            Why would you think that? In addition to the already mentioned, well-known problem that good intentions frequently don't result in good outcomes, we also have the notorious incurable nature of many mental illnesses. For example, you can't put a splint on mental depression to keep it from getting worse nor can you neatly excise schizophrenia like you would a small cancerous tumor.

            Having said that, I gather a fair bit of people considering suicide do so due to temporary suck in their lives, such as the recent loss of a loved one. Merely talking it over with someone could result in them reconsidering long enough to recover from their bout of depression.

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday May 03 2017, @11:01PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @11:01PM (#504029)

          That's more than an assumption: There have been studies [jamanetwork.com] on that very question. It turns out ad campaigns aren't effective, at all, but getting mental health treatments to people that need them are.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 04 2017, @07:01AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 04 2017, @07:01AM (#504229)

      As someone who has attempted suicide, I see all news stores about someone committing suicide as "Good job, you've finally gotten away from your horrible life. It may not have been the best choice, but you made it and was able to see it through to the end. Anyone who has the willpower to deliberately kill themselves deserves some respect." The media portrays it as "stupid kid hurts everyone around him despite them never realizing he was horribly depressed. Such a waste, selfishly destroying his life. He should have put a huge smile on his face and pretended to live a wonderful, awesomely fun, and energetic life so everyone won't be bothered by his pain."

      Graphic depictions of elements related to suicide? Please. You obviously never fantasied about buying a motorcycle and driving directly into a wall, or have passed out from self-inflicted dehydration, cut yourself just to feel any emotion other than hopelessness, wondered what getting smashed by a car would feel like, etc... Talking about suicide doesn't make people suicidal. Victim blaming the guy who died by saying he was a cowardly selfish low life is what drives those on the edge to kill themselves. The depressed person now applies those labels to himself because he's been thinking about doing exactly the same thing, so he must have the same unfixable character flaws. The world is a better place if I, a low life scum, is removed from it and as a bonus I won't be depressed anymore after I'm dead. A win-win!

      There is a bit of the fear of the unknown and watching other people die can put some of that to rest. But at this point, just someone randomly bullying you that day might have been enough anyway. Everyone already knows you can die by hanging, cutting, poison, gun, death by cop, starvation, lack of O2, etc... Hearing details about it doesn't do anything for you. It's more "well if he could do it then I can be as strong as him and kill myself too." People look up to their betters. People escaping their depressed life are better than those who refuse to acknowledge such pain could exist or think pulling yourself up from your bootstraps is easy.

      Well, I guess my last quote was an argument against the point I was trying to make. The other suicide doesn't justify your own, it gives you something to aspire to. No one else will give you any encouragement in trying to get better, it's shameful just to even bring it up. But hearing about a suicide doesn't cause that, it's everyone's horrid reaction to the victim (the person who died, not the ones he left behind. They aren't victims, they didn't care enough to risking feeling some awkwardness in trying to help the person.) which causes it.

      Really, why are the only role models depressed people have are ones who died? I congratulate everyone who commits suicide. Despite their depression and society holding them back, they were able to succeed in escaping it.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @03:23PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03 2017, @03:23PM (#503680)

    Yep, I was going to say the same thing. It's good that these social issues can be discussed more openly, and this will help people to express similar feelings that might have otherwise been repressed. On the whole, I think it will help shine more light on this issue.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday May 03 2017, @04:28PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday May 03 2017, @04:28PM (#503740) Journal

      It's important to give suicidal people an avenue to get help. It's important to diagnose and treat suicidal tendencies and depression that are driven by neurological factors. Those are a couple very specific, rather end-stage interventions. Before things get to that point there is something else we can all do--stop pretending to be perfect, and stop assuming that others are.

      The social dimension of suicide and depression is significant. If you think everybody else is doing just fine while you're having trouble with your job or relationships or you feel insecure about your social status, your sense of self-worth can quickly plummet. As it does, you feel worse, and become difficult to be around. People do start to avoid you, and your job/relationship problems compound and a negative feedback loop develops. When that happens, it can be almost impossible to get out again.

      So it's important to ask for help, and it's important to be honest with at least someone about how you're really doing. And when you get through something difficult, share that too. It's much easier to avoid the negative feedback loop if you know that the people around you are broken on some level, too, and are trying to work through things. Knowing that does a lot to avoid the intense sadness and isolation that come with suicidal feelings.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.