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Submitted via IRC for Runaway1956
Guns are not a part of the culture of my homeland, except perhaps for the occasional Bollywood movie in which the bad guy meets his demise staring down the wrong end of a barrel.
My childhood in India was steeped in ahimsa, the tenet of nonviolence toward all living things.
The Indians may have succeeded in ousting the British, but we won with Gandhian-style civil disobedience, not a revolutionary war.
I grew up not knowing a single gun owner, and even today India has one of the strictest gun laws on the planet. Few Indians buy and keep firearms at home, and gun violence is nowhere near the problem it is in the United States. An American is 12 times more likely than an Indian to be killed by a firearm, according to a recent study.
It's no wonder then that every time I visit India, my friends and family want to know more about America's "love affair" with guns.
I get the same questions when I visit my brother in Canada or on my business travels to other countries, where many people remain perplexed, maybe even downright mystified, by Americans' defense of gun rights.
I admit I do not fully understand it myself, despite having become an American citizen nearly a decade ago. So when I learn the National Rifle Association is holding its annual convention here in Atlanta, right next to the CNN Center, I decide to go and find out more.
Source: http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/world/indian-immigrant-nra-convention/index.html
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 04 2017, @12:42PM (10 children)
oh, i wanted to add one other point to her generic comment often heard from ANTI-gun people along the lines of 'i just don't understand people's fascination with guns/weapons...'
If there is one trend that I've noticed among these sort of people is that they often have been lucky enough to never had to defend themselves against another violent person who was much stronger than themselves. Many change their mind amazingly quick and arm themselves after a single assault.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Thursday May 04 2017, @04:08PM (4 children)
The sort of "violence" I've experienced is just not solvable with a gun. Yes, if you near a wilderness and need means to protect yourself from wild animals, then a gun (a rifle, not a pistol) can be a good idea. Animals aren't stupid, and the rest will get the idea after a few of them are shot. A refresher every once in a while maintains their education.
As for violence from your fellow humans, that's a lot harder to handle. Physical violence is just one avenue. The punk kid who runs around snatching purses, or tries to mug people, isn't going to last. I'm not counting on someone gunning him down, I'm counting on everyone and everything eventually catching up with him. He keeps doing it, and he will be recognized, his home will be found, and he will be caught.
I'm talking about government tyranny in the form of an unfair fine, and threats, bullying, and propaganda. The whole red light camera racket, what can you do about it when a local government mistimes a light and fines people $75 for missing it by a fraction of a second? Taking your gun to the next meeting of the city council and opening fire is so obviously a really bad idea on many different levels. Not least, it's severely disproportionate. How about school, in which a teacher takes a personal dislike to you or your kid, though you did nothing whatsoever to them, and hands out an F that is not justified? Quite a few teachers hate and envy smart kids, and will try to punish them for it, find any excuse no matter how stupid, to flunk them. Happened to me all too often, from grade school through college.
Then there are those who try to scare you with the idea that the government is on their side, when it isn't. Like, those big, scary law enforcement badges Hollywood puts at the start of just about every DVD, and debt collectors who tell you they're going to send the police to arrest you if you don't pay up. There, the brains to recognize an empty threat is a whole lot more useful than a gun. I've had businesses try to tell me bull that the rules say I have to pay them money, or that some fee for some extra is customary and necessary, the "everyone does it" argument, when it isn't. The parking meter ticket is another one you can often blow off, though that one is trickier, depends on whether those with an interest have succeeded in bribing government to put some teeth in enforcement. A guy who ran a pr0n store told that the police were always hauling his clerks off to jail on bogus, trumped up charges. They were usually released with no charges a few hours later.
Where in all that is there a use for a gun? The pr0n store manager was going to ask his clerks to resist arrest, fire warning shots at the police to tell them not to try it? Of course not. Or, later, was he going to hire a small private army and storm the police station to free his clerks at gunpoint? No way. Maybe he could go after the politicians who directed the police to crack down on pr0n? Also no good. They do it to score points with the social conservatives, and do it in the weeks before an election. So, shoot all the social conservatives? Ridiculous. Setting aside the immorality of the idea, no one could shoot more than a tiny fraction of them before being overwhelmed. Once the election is over, the harassment is quietly discontinued.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @12:01AM
In these cases a gun won't help you. Violence as an individual doesn't solve every problem.
Where it will help is the rapist, the crazy stalker, a guy hellbent on killing you. In rarer cases, government agents that want you dead, etc. None of that is every day shit for everyone but unfortunately it does happen. The unarmed end up on the news or in the stats. Even a level playing field doesn't guarantee outcome.
So you know, shoot to have fun and enjoy it. Its what 99% of guns are used for. Everything isn't life or death 100% of the time. You don't NEED free speech, your own car, the ability to run apps outside the Microsoft Store, electricity or pretty much anything besides food, water and shelter but I'll be damned if those other things aren't nice to have. It really sucks when some judgmental prick tries to take them away from you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @05:06AM (2 children)
Without endorsing any course of action, let's analyze your claim.
How is this situation any different in principle than:
Assuming an unquestioned right to the defense of your own life (regardless of success), you are the victim in both effectively identical scenarios. As the victim, any deaths of your attackers are on the heads of the attackers.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday May 05 2017, @07:10AM (1 child)
> Local government bureaucrats revoke your driver's license
That's the sticking point. They don't have the authority to do that. In fact, they have to wiggle a lot to slide the red light camera tickets past the law. Like there's the right to be confronted by your accuser. There's also the problem of identifying the driver. They hit the owner for the fine, never mind who was actually driving. So in Texas, the ticket doesn't count as a moving violation, it is only a violation of a city ordinance. It does not go on your driving record and it is not cause for auto insurers to raise your rates or for you to lose your driver's license. If you refuse to pay, they can report it as an unpaid debt, that's all. They usually bluster, hinting that you will be in Big Trouble if you don't pay. They can't cut off your water either.
What happened in the city where I live was a petition against red light cameras was put on the ballot and won by 70%. The incumbent mayor supported the cameras and he lost to a challenger who opposed them. The private company who ran the cameras sued to try to keep the measure off the ballot. They lost their lawsuit. They then tried their stock propaganda about red light cameras making driving safer. Didn't work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @07:34AM
You are correct, but you're intentionally avoiding the foundational point.
Maybe not in Texas, maybe not in the present, and maybe not only with red light camera tickets, but government agents which do exceed their delegated authority and assault you are literally criminals, and if one of their victims successfully kills some criminal attackers, the victim is justified.
If people don't like the idea of criminals getting killed, then the age-old advice applies: stop acting criminally!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 04 2017, @05:45PM (1 child)
> If there is one trend that I've noticed among these sort of people is that they often have been lucky enough to never had to defend themselves against another violent person who was much stronger than themselves. Many change their mind amazingly quick and arm themselves after a single assault.
Citation needed.
Can't say that I've met anyone that fits your premise. What I've seen are people that grew up with guns and feel the need to have one or more (often from a rural/farming background), and many (most) others that grew up without guns around the house and don't feel any need.
In my case, I shot a .22 at a summer camp a few times, didn't find it all that exciting. Went back to playing with other potentially dangerous machines like motorcycles and cars...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @05:10AM
The yuuuge difference you overlook is that People of the Gun are not trying to force you to use a gun, nor are they trying to steal your motorcycle or car.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 04 2017, @05:52PM (1 child)
You mean, they turn into cowards who think they need an EDC? Sorry you were bullied, bro!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @09:11AM
So you want to disarm victims, I see...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @12:18AM
yeah, or they have paid security that does the dirty work of having guns for them.