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posted by Fnord666 on Friday May 05 2017, @09:53AM   Printer-friendly
from the language-evolves-too dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

When uploaded to Netflix, an episode of the educational children's show "Bill Nye the Science Guy" cut out a segment saying that chromosomes determine one's gender.

[...] While noncontroversial at the time, the 1996 segment appears to contradict Netflix's new series "Bill Nye Saves the World."

The new show endorses a socially liberal understanding of gender, under which gender is defined by self-identification rather than genetics and there are more than just the two traditional genders.

People, people, people... Say it with me: The Internet Never Forgets.

Source: http://freebeacon.com/culture/netflix-edits-bill-nye-episode-remove-segment-chromosomes-determine-gender/


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Wootery on Friday May 05 2017, @10:49AM (56 children)

    by Wootery (2341) on Friday May 05 2017, @10:49AM (#504762)

    But what term is better for the 'gender' you identify with?

    Repurposing 'gender' to have a different meaning from 'sex' doesn't seem obviously wrongheaded.

    Starting Score:    1  point
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday May 05 2017, @10:56AM (41 children)

    Arbitrarily changing the meaning of an established word to suit your political ends is always wrongheaded.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @11:11AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @11:11AM (#504775)

      Tell that to the people conveniently redefining words like "truth" and "news" to fit their own agenda.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by fadrian on Friday May 05 2017, @02:37PM (21 children)

      by fadrian (3194) on Friday May 05 2017, @02:37PM (#504874) Homepage

      Changing the meaning of already agreed-upon words is what we do in languages. It's called linguistic change. Get used to it. It will happen.

      --
      That is all.
      • (Score: 5, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday May 05 2017, @02:46PM (6 children)

        You're free to try. I'm free to refuse your redefinition.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday May 05 2017, @05:04PM (3 children)

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday May 05 2017, @05:04PM (#505006)

          In researching this story, I have come to the conclusion that it is your side redefining 'gender' to be synonymous with 'sex'.

          The words are distinct for a reason.

          • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday May 05 2017, @05:50PM

            by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Friday May 05 2017, @05:50PM (#505035) Journal

            Indeed, and that was actually true even in the mid-90s. I recall being in a class at that time and writing a report and having an argument with a teacher because I used the word "gender" when "sex" would actually have been more appropriate. At the time I didn't realize the difference, but then I read more about it and realized how these terms were being used in research articles and such.

            Yes, even when the original Bill Nye series was produced, people already knew there was a difference between the implications of the terms.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @06:16PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @06:16PM (#505054)

            In researching this story, I have come to the conclusion that it is your side redefining 'gender' to be synonymous with 'sex'.

            The words are distinct for a reason.

            Yes they are, 2 genders and multiple sexes.

          • (Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Saturday May 06 2017, @06:58AM

            by Magic Oddball (3847) on Saturday May 06 2017, @06:58AM (#505349) Journal

            Actually, if you check historic dictionaries, you'll find that they originally referred to the same concept, and only relatively recently diverged. From the 1828 Webster's Dictionary entry for 'gender' [webstersdictionary1828.com], for example:

            GEN'DER, noun [Latin genus, from geno, gigno; Gr.to beget, or to be born; Eng. kind. Gr. a woman, a wife; Sans. gena, a wife, and genaga, a father. We have begin from the same root. See Begin and Can.]

            1. Properly, kind; sort.

            2. A sex, male or female. Hence,

            3. In grammar, a difference in words to express distinction of sex; usually a difference of termination in nouns, adjectives and participles, to express the distinction of male and female. (...)

            GEN'DER, verb transitive To beget; but engender is more generally used.

            GEN'DER, verb intransitive To copulate; to breed. Leviticus 19:19.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 06 2017, @12:31AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 06 2017, @12:31AM (#505234)

          You're free to try. I'm free to refuse your redefinition.

          So if gender has a long history as describing the sexuality a person identifies as, rather than their biological sex, you would accept it? Your annoyance is purely because people are trying to change and pervert the language?

          See wikipedia. [wikipedia.org]

          Sexologist John Money introduced the terminological distinction between biological sex and gender as a role in 1955. Before his work, it was uncommon to use the word gender to refer to anything but grammatical categories.[1][2]

          I look forward to you either champion-ing using "gender" to refer to grammatical categories, or champion-ing using it to refer to gender identity as opposed to biological sex. Assuming that you are being honest that you are upset at word re-definition.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 06 2017, @03:54PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 06 2017, @03:54PM (#505448)

          Look at the guzzard, grabbing upmods from Neanderthals!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @02:48PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @02:48PM (#504890)

        What's established should be preserved. Tradition should be respected. Change should be limited.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @04:07PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @04:07PM (#504953)

          We should all be British and serve the monarchy. Etc.

          • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday May 05 2017, @05:12PM (4 children)

            by Gaaark (41) on Friday May 05 2017, @05:12PM (#505012) Journal

            No, you should all be Native Americans and serve the Gods. Etc.

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
            • (Score: 4, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday May 05 2017, @08:13PM (3 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday May 05 2017, @08:13PM (#505125) Journal

              No. All be caveman, all call Ugg, club deer and eat raw. Fire is liberal conspiracy! Ookha ookha ugh arg.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday May 05 2017, @08:27PM (1 child)

                by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday May 05 2017, @08:27PM (#505132) Journal

                I like it. How do I join your club?

                --
                Washington DC delenda est.
                • (Score: 2) by Zyx Abacab on Saturday May 06 2017, @01:53AM

                  by Zyx Abacab (3701) on Saturday May 06 2017, @01:53AM (#505274)

                  Time was that people would say:

                  Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

                  I guess the conspiracy got that one too.

              • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday May 05 2017, @09:44PM

                by Gaaark (41) on Friday May 05 2017, @09:44PM (#505175) Journal

                But remember, fire was forgotten until the Doctor brought matches.

                --
                --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @09:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @09:28PM (#505165)

          Rejecting change based entirely on your fanciful whims is no traditionalism, it's merely pragmatism.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 05 2017, @04:12PM (4 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 05 2017, @04:12PM (#504960) Journal

        You're searching for "agreement"? Well, feck you very much. It's MY language, at least as much as it is yours, and I don't agree.

        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday May 05 2017, @05:13PM (3 children)

          by Gaaark (41) on Friday May 05 2017, @05:13PM (#505014) Journal

          'Feck!'
          'Arse!'
          'Girls!'
          'DRINK!'

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @08:00PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @08:00PM (#505117)

        Not when you rely on public shaming campaigns to enforce your meaning against those who don't confirm to your ideology. If a concept cannot succeed on it's own merit, it deserves to die.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Wootery on Friday May 05 2017, @02:46PM (10 children)

      by Wootery (2341) on Friday May 05 2017, @02:46PM (#504884)

      to suit your political ends

      Well you can call it that, but like I said really it's just Let's have a word for the gender that someone identifies with. You don't have to be an ultra-liberal to agree that it makes sense to have a word for this -- you can even be ragingly transphobic and still want there to be a word.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday May 05 2017, @02:56PM (9 children)

        That's fine. Pick a different one. Gender is already widely used and means a specific thing.

        Oh and don't go asking me to switch pronouns around to accommodate you. I'm not going to start every conversation by asking what your preferred pronouns are today. That's fucking stupid.

        Agree to those and we have no problems.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @04:05PM (7 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @04:05PM (#504951)

          in the show Billions the confused person says "my pronouns are they, theirs...". yeah, those are your fucking pronouns. I don't pick on people because they aren't "normal" but don't fucking try and tell me how to talk. that shit is your problem, not mine. I may react poorly. smash!

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @04:12PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @04:12PM (#504959)

            Cried the deadly killer attack nerd behind his mighty Laptop of Invincibility.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 05 2017, @04:14PM (5 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 05 2017, @04:14PM (#504963) Journal

            Who gives a flying fuck how you react? Smash? Some of us may well react in kind. When your face is smashed into the pavement, you may want to reconsider how fucking rude you are.

            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday May 05 2017, @04:22PM (4 children)

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday May 05 2017, @04:22PM (#504972) Journal

              FOOD FIGHT!

              --
              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Gaaark on Friday May 05 2017, @05:21PM (3 children)

                by Gaaark (41) on Friday May 05 2017, @05:21PM (#505019) Journal

                More like a fuck fight.... S&M anyone?

                --
                --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @07:06PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @07:06PM (#505087)

                  Runaway is in Arkansaws: he is just kinda touchy 'cause his meds have expired.

        • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Friday May 05 2017, @04:17PM

          by Wootery (2341) on Friday May 05 2017, @04:17PM (#504970)

          Agree that the pronouns thing goes too far, especially where it's used as a pretext to take offence.

    • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday May 05 2017, @03:04PM (2 children)

      by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday May 05 2017, @03:04PM (#504912)

      Many words have multiple meanings.

      Gender more properly describes the use of sexed pronouns than the actual sex itself.

      Sounds like the original script was not worded carefully enough.

      Even if you accept that sex!=gender, it is not clear that your chromosomes have no effect. In fact, I would venture to say that they have a very large effect.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday May 05 2017, @08:31PM (1 child)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday May 05 2017, @08:31PM (#505138) Journal

        Hmm, maybe from now on we ought to use "shklee," "shklim," and "shkler" whenever this topic comes up.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday May 05 2017, @09:50PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Friday May 05 2017, @09:50PM (#505178) Journal

          I like She, Him and Shim.

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday May 05 2017, @04:27PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday May 05 2017, @04:27PM (#504973) Journal

      Gender [oed.com]

      gender, n.

      Forms: ME gendere, ME gendir, ME gendyr, ME–15 gendre, ME– gender, 15 18– gener (... (Show More)
      Frequency (in current use):
      Origin: A borrowing from French, combined with an English element. Etymons: French gendre , gender v.1
      Etymology: Anglo-Norman and Middle French gendre (Anglo-Norman and Middle French, French genre ... (Show More)
        1. Grammar.

        a. In some (esp. Indo-European) languages, as Latin, French, German, English, etc.: each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, neuter, common) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections which they have and which they require in words syntactically associated with them; similarly applied to adjectives (and in some languages) verbs, to denote the appropriate form for accompanying a noun of such a class. Also: the fact, condition, or property of belonging to such a class; the classification of language in this way.
      Sometimes called grammatical gender, to distinguish this sense from natural gender: see grammatical gender at grammatical adj. 1a, natural gender n. at natural adj. and adv. Special uses 2.
      In most European languages, grammatical gender is now only very loosely associated with natural distinctions of sex.

    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday May 05 2017, @04:56PM (1 child)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Friday May 05 2017, @04:56PM (#504996) Journal

      Arbitrarily changing the meaning of an established word to suit your political ends

      This seems like an arbitrarily automatic response on your part, mon Petit Buse!

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @06:35PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @06:35PM (#505069)

    But what term is better for the 'gender' you identify with?

    Gender identity. Are two words too many for you? Gotta have everything labeled with a single bite-sized word to describe it so your tiny little idiot mind can process it?

    Wow, you're even +5 insightful at the time of posting this. The pinheads got mod points today...

  • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday May 05 2017, @07:43PM (9 children)

    by mhajicek (51) on Friday May 05 2017, @07:43PM (#505104)

    We don't ask what sex a cable connector is, we ask what gender. It's female gender if it has holes, it's male gender if it has pins. Painting it pink and putting a bow on it doesn't change it's gender. If you want to know what gender someone identifies as, as opposed to what gender they are, why not ask that specific question?

    --
    The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @08:08PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @08:08PM (#505120)

      We don't ask what sex a cable connector is, we ask what gender. It's female gender if it has holes, it's male gender if it has pins. Painting it pink and putting a bow on it doesn't change it's gender. If you want to know what gender someone identifies as, as opposed to what gender they are, why not ask that specific question?

      Gender in biology has a specific meaning though. Genotype is immutable and phenotype mutable, this is why individuals born with both male and female sex organs are called "intersex" and not "intergender". There's no such thing as "intergender" in human beings because biological gender is binary and determined solely by the presence (or lack) of a Y chromosome.

      Also, a male XLR (canon) connector has holes whilst the female connector is a socket with pins. Is this proof of transgenderism in cable connectors?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @11:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 05 2017, @11:38PM (#505215)

        That takes me back. In the late 80s and early 90s, when Token Ring ("don't bogart that token my friend, pass it over here" with apologies to Little Feat; oh, and fuck CSMA/CD!) was still a thing, we had universal (sometimes referred to as hermaphroditic or "Boy George" -- get it?) connectors [wikipedia.org].

        So were those gender-bending network connectors the start of all this?
        /snark

    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday May 05 2017, @09:53PM (6 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Friday May 05 2017, @09:53PM (#505180) Journal

      I don't ask what gender it is... I ask is it male or female, with more of an anatomical picture than a Gender picture.

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday May 05 2017, @11:07PM (5 children)

        by mhajicek (51) on Friday May 05 2017, @11:07PM (#505206)

        What do you call an RS-232 gender changer?

        --
        The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday May 05 2017, @11:14PM

          by Bot (3902) on Friday May 05 2017, @11:14PM (#505208) Journal

          > What do you call an RS-232 gender changer?

          Grandpa's denture.

          --
          Account abandoned.
        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday May 06 2017, @12:07AM (3 children)

          by Gaaark (41) on Saturday May 06 2017, @12:07AM (#505228) Journal

          Male to female adapter?

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
          • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday May 06 2017, @01:04AM (2 children)

            by mhajicek (51) on Saturday May 06 2017, @01:04AM (#505246)

            But if someone says "Hand me that gender changer" you'll know exactly what they mean.

            --
            The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
            • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday May 06 2017, @02:52AM (1 child)

              by Gaaark (41) on Saturday May 06 2017, @02:52AM (#505287) Journal

              I'd probably end up saying something like "hand me that transgender changer" and get odd looks, lol.

              --
              --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
              • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday May 06 2017, @02:53AM

                by Gaaark (41) on Saturday May 06 2017, @02:53AM (#505288) Journal

                I must say, I live in interesting times, lol.

                --
                --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
  • (Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday May 05 2017, @07:56PM (1 child)

    by jdavidb (5690) on Friday May 05 2017, @07:56PM (#505114) Homepage Journal

    Repurposing 'gender' to have a different meaning from 'sex' doesn't seem obviously wrongheaded.

    I have never seen this concept presented in a way that says the word has been repurposed. I've been told since college in the 1990s that the two words mean something different, with the implication that it has always been this way.

    --
    ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings