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posted by on Tuesday May 16 2017, @03:57PM   Printer-friendly
from the wassup-prof? dept.

At the start of my teaching career, when I was fresh out of graduate school, I briefly considered trying to pass myself off as a cool professor. Luckily, I soon came to my senses and embraced my true identity as a young fogey.

After one too many students called me by my first name and sent me email that resembled a drunken late-night Facebook post, I took a very fogeyish step. I began attaching a page on etiquette to every syllabus: basic rules for how to address teachers and write polite, grammatically correct emails.

Over the past decade or two, college students have become far more casual in their interactions with faculty members. My colleagues around the country grumble about students' sloppy emails and blithe informality.

[...] Sociologists who surveyed undergraduate syllabuses from 2004 and 2010 found that in 2004, 14 percent addressed issues related to classroom etiquette; six years later, that number had more than doubled, to 33 percent. This phenomenon crosses socio-economic lines. My colleagues at Stanford gripe as much as the ones who teach at state schools, and students from more privileged backgrounds are often the worst offenders.

-- submitted from IRC

Source: The New York Times


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  • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 16 2017, @04:31PM (17 children)

    by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 16 2017, @04:31PM (#510571) Journal

    Rather than the notion of textspeak that lived briefly in the 2000s, only people intentionally "leaning in" on bad spelling type that badly on the internet now. Well, and your mom.

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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday May 16 2017, @04:53PM (14 children)

    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @04:53PM (#510590) Journal

    Well, no -- I don't think profs tend to receive much "textspeak" in emails. However, I have had professorial colleagues who received emails from students with salutations including "Hey man" and "Yo dude". I wish I were joking. And no, these were not from students who knew the profs well; they were initial contacts with the professor.

    I think it depends on a lot on the student. I've seen emails that go overboard the other way, although also in a manner that makes them seem email illiterate. Something like:

    From: Sam Jones
    To: Professor
    Subject: Sam Jones
    Body: Dear Professor, Hi this is Sam Jones here. I'm in your 10am class on X.... I have this problem Y. Thanks. Your student, Sam Jones.

    Yes, I get it -- you're Sam Jones. I could tell from the "From" field in your email. I also know you're in my class, because there are only 10 people in it, and I've called you by name multiple times this semester.

    I kid you not -- I've received emails that look like this even AFTER I've had a detailed email correspondence with a student multiple times. Do you really think I don't remember who you are after all that so you need to remind me four times in EVERY email? I'd actually prefer "Hey man..." at that point.

    ... ANYHOW, to those who would criticize a prof for trying to teach basic email etiquette, I personally view it as a "professional development" part of education. In the real world, if you email some person who has authority over you and whom you don't know well (e.g., boss's boss, HR director, whatever) with a salutation "Yo dude..." that may not be the best strategy to get what you want in your job.

    • (Score: 2) by melikamp on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:05PM (6 children)

      by melikamp (1886) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:05PM (#510595) Journal

      A lot of these things are kind of personal. With emails, I insist on them mentioning their roster name and class every time, just so that I can quickly locate their record. If that information is not present, I refuse to process the rest and instantly fire a boilerplate request for clarification. Saves my time :)

      • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:23PM (4 children)

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:23PM (#510606) Journal

        I completely understand that policy, and if we were talking about a class of 100 students or something, I'd be grateful for the same thing.

        When you're teaching a 10-student seminar and talk to the student personally almost every class, it's a bit odd to receive an email like that repeatedly from the same student. But I never thought that they may have just been "trained" to do that in other classes....

        • (Score: 2) by melikamp on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:27PM (2 children)

          by melikamp (1886) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:27PM (#510608) Journal
          That's totally true. My teaching load is between 100 and 120 students per semester, and while I manage to memorize 90% of the names after a month or so, I can never do 100%, and the recall doesn't work as well over email, especially if it comes from some random yahoo account :)
          • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:43PM (1 child)

            by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:43PM (#510617) Journal

            True -- the random Yahoo or Gmail accounts can be a mystery. I have on occasion received a message from "groovychick2014@yahoo.com" or some address like that with a request for clarification on a syllabus and no signed name... which was confusing. I guess I haven't encountered the combo of random Yahoo account AND no signed name at the end enough to make me institute a formal policy.

            But that's another thing that younger people maybe should be taught to think about -- using bizarre or inappropriate email address names for "official" correspondence. I'm sure when they were 14 it sounded great to sign up for "toughstud843" as a username, but I always find it a little weird to get email from students with addresses like that.

            • (Score: 2) by tfried on Tuesday May 16 2017, @08:34PM

              by tfried (5534) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @08:34PM (#510734)

              Sorry if I'm making wrong assumptions on your age, but do note that you and I did not even have an email account at age 14, or at least not one that we actually used (you do need someone to communicate with, after all). As irritating as it is, the issue of teenage usernames sticking around is simply something our generation never had to worry about...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 16 2017, @07:46PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 16 2017, @07:46PM (#510701)

          Maybe they are trying not to be presumptuous that their 10 student class is all that you look after. For all they know, you have 10 ten-student classes.

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:01PM

        by kaszz (4211) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:01PM (#510633) Journal

        Seems you found the formula for how to handle noise so you get a better signal-to-noise deal ;-)

        Anyway I think setting a proper subject in personal emails, making an effort on how a text is formulated and grammar such that other people can understand and interpret what is being written and of course stating the request in clear terms is a minimum in most communications.

        Titles etc may however be cumbersome. Kind of reminds me of code written by well paid people in suits with the right degrees that can't even compete in performance with a pimple ridden 17-year old that knows what he's doing. At the core of it is that competence and curiosity is key.

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:39PM (5 children)

      by frojack (1554) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:39PM (#510615) Journal

      I've received emails that look like this even AFTER I've had a detailed email correspondence with a student multiple times.

      So help me out here....
      Your briefly hand waive away the fact that some kids who lack even a modicum of respect in their emails.
      Then you spend the bulk of your post castigating poor Sam, who was going out of his way to be polite and respectful.

      Then you say you call it "Professional Development". You seem a little undecided on this subject.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:45PM (3 children)

        by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:45PM (#510618) Journal

        You have to choices:

        1. Come out of high school perfect, with no weaknesses in your professional communication skills.
        2. Be one of those damn millennials ruining everything. Why are they eating so many avocados on my lawn?

        Hell, I'm a professional who works in an office with some very formal people, and I'm sure I write overly curt or unnecessarily formal emails all the time. The people on the other end of it get over it and we work together to solve problems, like actual adults.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:04PM (1 child)

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:04PM (#510635) Journal

          Come out of high school perfect, with no weaknesses in your professional communication skills.

          I guess you missed the point in my post where I recommended advising students to help them improve their communication skills for "Professional Development" purposes. I don't expect that they will be "perfect" at the start. I *am* surprised at how many don't even understand the basics of etiquette in a professional situation. It's not a huge number, and I don't even know that it's a "millennial" problem; I assume some students have always had these issues.

          I *rarely* correct a student on this sort of thing unless it's a pervasive and odd issue that I think could get them into trouble down the line in professional communication. But in that latter case, I think it's actually part of a role of being a good educator to help students in this fashion (and I'd never do so in a denigrating tone or whatever).

          By the way, I'm not some weird person obsessed with etiquette either. I'd say the exact same thing about correcting a student's grammar or usage in a paper submitted to me, even if it wasn't really about the content. I'm not teaching them English, but if they are persistently misusing commas, I'm going to let them know.

          • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:18PM

            by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:18PM (#510648) Journal

            I will acknowledge you are right: I intentionally missed the point and presented a false dichotomy as a rhetorical tactic.

            This is not because I think I you, personally, are being unreasonable, but because the core of this, to me, seems like the same "this damn next generation" stuff, filtered through a lens where, suddenly, a written form is suddenly how the naivety and imperfections of young people are most clearly communicated. 20 years ago, it would definitely be "Oh man, you should've heard this phone call I got from my student" instead.

            And also the same shit with essays.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:40PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:40PM (#510667)

          I personally saw 2 spelling mistakes in the space of a month in emails. The millenials are fucking destrying the fucking country those fucking noobs.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:53PM

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:53PM (#510628) Journal

        I wouldn't exactly say I was "castigating" poor Sam. I'm sincerely grateful he made the effort. And I wasn't AT ALL criticizing his politeness or respectfulness -- only the fact that he told me his name four or five times in every message. (And this fictional student is not unique.)

        I do sometimes find this sort of thing indicative of students who also are inexperienced with email. I could give other examples of misplaced attempts at formality that come across as bizarre. But, as another post pointed out, some profs actually want this sort of info EVERY TIME in a message, so maybe I was a bit harsh on poor Sam in this particular quirk.

        You seem a little undecided on this subject.

        I guess maybe you thought I was criticizing the format or formality of Sam's message? I wasn't. And I was joking at the end when I said at that point I'd prefer "Hey man..." but I guess perhaps I needed a sarcasm tag.

        Clear now?

    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday May 17 2017, @03:36AM

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @03:36AM (#510909)

      1. The faculty should agree on an appropriate form of address for themselves. At my undergrad alma mater, for example, we were to refer to our profs as "Mr. Smith" or "Ms. Jones" (even if they had a doctorate). Students deviating from that would be gently corrected.
      2. Part of what everyone with a B.A. should know is the basics of proper communication in their primary language and culture. In the US, that means that you should be able to handle a formal business letter, an academic essay, or a fairly formal email, and most importantly understand that all those shouldn't read like a Facebook post.
      3. I've never once been looked down on for being a bit too formal in my emails. Part of teaching kids this stuff is teaching them to err on the side of formality, and watch for signals that you can get more informal. For example, in my initial approach to a potential client, I'm addressing "Mr. Johnson", and then if I see that they sign their name "Bill" rather than "William H Johnson, CTO of Initech", I'll start calling them "Bill".

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:11PM (1 child)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Tuesday May 16 2017, @05:11PM (#510599) Journal

    whateva u say bby

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    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 16 2017, @06:42PM (#510668)

      oh u like it wen i talk like dat huh txt me