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SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Monday May 22 2017, @12:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the community++ dept.

SoyentNews is staffed by volunteers who give of their time and knowledge to provide a forum where people can discuss stories submitted by the community. We have no outside funding source.

Per our advance announcement on Saturday, May 20th, we completed our site update... one day ahead of schedule! And, even more amazingly, the community came together and we had over four dozen people subscribe since then! THANK YOU! Read on for more details.

The Site Upgrade: I am happy to report things went smoothly. So smoothly, in fact, I didn't even notice the upgrade was being rolled out! I was on the site at the time, following along on IRC (Internet Relay Chat), and didn't even realize the updates they were discussing were not on some support server... these updates were on the main site! (Given that I have a long background in QA/test, that's high praise indeed!) Many thanks to The Mighty Buzzard, NCommander, a surprise visit in IRC by "NC|FromTheFuture", and the rest of the SN staff waiting at the ready to help out should things go sideways.

IRC Server Updates: As mentioned in the earlier article, we are continuing apace with moving to Gentoo for our base OS across all our servers. Before we update the OS, all of the facilities and services underlying SoylentNews need be ported over. To that end, Deucalion has been working diligently to port our IRC servers to run on Gentoo and to do so in a 'multi-server' arrangement. (Behind the scenes, SoylentNews staff primarily coordinate our efforts using IRC. Should something go wrong, we do have fall-backs in place, but they are much less efficient.) We will keep you informed as to our progress.

Folding@home: Our progress has been slower and competition has been greater as we reach the higher ranks. We are currently still on track to be one of the Top 300 F@H Teams in the World by May 28th, 2017 — barely fifteen months since we started! To put this in perspective, there are over 226,270 teams behind us. Please consider helping us in the fight against many debilitating diseases such as Huntington's, Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's. (Original Announcement.)

Site Suggestions: The prior story brought a wealth of comments. Several suggestions for the site look to be both helpful and reasonably feasible to implement.

One proposed change is to provide a means for a user to set an explicit time (or a reference comment) for which comments newer than that would be flagged as *new*.

Several people shared how they had failed to notice their subscription had expired. One suggestion recommended dimming the "Site News" box which shows the site funding status, based on your current subscription status. Dim the box (user preference) when your subscription is up-to-date; display full-intensity when your subscription has expired (or you are an AC). Another suggested we add a banner at the top of the main page to keep folks appraised as to their subscription status (and a link to re-subscribe).

Separately, when viewing an article which appears in a nexus other than "The Main Page", some of the links on the page are particular to just that nexus, and not the site in general. This story, for example, is in the "Meta" nexus.

Staffing: It is my pleasure to introduce a new member of our staff, Xyem, who came on board on May 16th and has already made contributions to our code base! Please join me in welcoming him aboard.

Funding - In a word: WOW! The actual dollar amounts deposited into our accounts remain to be tabulated, but the current estimated tally, (as shown in the Beg-o-meter on the main page in the "Site News" slashbox) tells the tale. As of the time of writing this story, we have reached our base funding goal!

It bears mentioning that the base funding goal only covers our ongoing operations expenses. We have no prudent reserve should something goes sideways. Further, when SoylentNews started, there were setup expenses that were funded out-of-pocket by our founders. That was over three years ago and they have more than graciously allowed us to continue operating so far without insisting on getting repaid. Sadly, this all went down so long ago I don't recall the exact amount, but I believe it was on the order of $5K, total, that is owed two to people. It would thrill me to no end to know that they have been made whole. It is also important, as a Public Benefit Corporation that we be beholden to noone so that we can continue an an entity that provides a forum where the community can have open discussions on topics of interest. The community submits the stories, writes the comments, and moderates the comments. We are here for you.

It bears mentioning, for those who might not be aware, one is able to subscribe multiple times and/or specify a larger amount on the subscription page than the amounts offered. So far this year, NINE people have subscribed at $100.00 and one especially generous person subscribed at $250.00! Oh, and thanks to this upgrade, we have regained support for subscriptions via Bitcoin!

So, we have a stretch goal of $2000.00 which, if we were able to reach it, would allow us to make a significant step towards making the founders whole and allow SoylentNews to stand on its own.

Funding tl;dr: For tax and accounting purposes, all values are based on actual transactions to our bank account. Entirely separate is what we record internally to the site based on user's interactions with the UI, and there are some historical issues which we are addressing. The amounts appearing the "Site News" slashbox are, therefore, close approximations.

[*] We just discovered a few days ago that PayPal charges different fees depending on your local currency. For example, Alice (in America) subscribes to SoylentNews for one year with the suggested amount of $20.00 US using a credit card drawn on a US bank. Günther (from Germany) also chooses to subscribe for one year and at the suggested amount of $20.00 US. He, too uses his credit card, but it is drawn from an account denominated in Euros. You can see where this is headed, right? It appears there are additional fees charged for the conversion to $USD. See PayPal's merchant fees page for the low-down. Pay special attention to the fact that the additional fees are denominated in the user's local currency, not in $USD.

PayPal does inform us of the actual amount requested, the fees charged, and the net amount we receive. (We get similar info from Stripe, but of course, in a different format.) That information is now stored in our site database. But it wasn't always this way. In the very early days, we were mostly just trying to keep the site from crashing because the code on which this site was based had not been supported in several years and was rife with problems. As things stabilized over the ensuing months and years, we could finally bring our attention to other areas of the code. Since accounting was performed strictly by what happened through our bank account, there was little concern about what was happening internal to the site's inherited accounting code. And wouldn't you know it, the historical data had the gross subscription amount, but failed to accurately account for fees. Net amount was set to be the same as the gross amount. We are in the process of rectifying this, but it will take some time. Hence, the amounts shown in the "Site News" slashbox are an approximation.

To summarize, the site upgrade went smoothly, we have one of the top folding@home sites in the world(!), we are still working to improve the site, the community has been amazing in meeting our ongoing funding needs, and we are hoping we can start repaying our founders.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @01:22PM (20 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @01:22PM (#513472)

    If we could objectively identify which comments are actually trollish or "shitty", then this would be a moot point. The whole problem is that such comments are not objectively identifiable, and thus a person who wishes to identify a comment as such should be forced to render such an opinion closer to being objective by putting his money where his moderation is.

  • (Score: 1, Redundant) by VLM on Monday May 22 2017, @01:26PM (19 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @01:26PM (#513474)

    The whole problem is that such comments are not objectively identifiable

    In practice doesn't it mean "not left wing"?

    Perhaps adding "14/88" and "snowflake" as moderation options would cut down on inappropriate troll modding.

    But then people will do stuff like set user prefs to -5 "snowflake" mods (or perhaps the other) with the result of less social mixing which is generally seen as a net positive.

    • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Monday May 22 2017, @01:43PM (17 children)

      by butthurt (6141) on Monday May 22 2017, @01:43PM (#513478) Journal

      Urban Dictionary has some definitions for "14/88":

      https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=14%2F88 [urbandictionary.com]

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Monday May 22 2017, @02:18PM (15 children)

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @02:18PM (#513493)

        I can't remember if you're Ameri-burger but in the USA at least since the 70s (if not further) all non-left wing political candidates are traditionally labeled as "literally Hitler". Its actually kinda funny when applied to small town mayoral races. If they don't have that long political tradition in the UK or Canada or whatever, then that joke-moderation probably looks weirder than usual. In UK media culture, was Margaret Thatcher literally Hitler?

        The idea of a non-partisian moderation "Political" is interesting to think about as a more serious, more realistically applicable suggestion. Maybe give it a default weight of +/- 0 but people who are truly supremely allergic to politics could configure their rules to -5 or whatever.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @02:27PM (7 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @02:27PM (#513499)

          You whine about "snowflakes" and then complain yourself about people referring to politicians as "literally hitler". You are fluent in hypocrisy, now how about taking some courses in critical thinking?

          That said, we do need more diverse moderation options and it would be nice if you could see the moderation history for a comment.

          • (Score: 1) by Xyem on Monday May 22 2017, @02:43PM (3 children)

            by Xyem (6597) <xyem@soylentnews.org> on Monday May 22 2017, @02:43PM (#513510)

            > it would be nice if you could see the moderation history for a comment.

            If you click the comment id [soylentnews.org] there is a little table beneath the comment which shows the moderations. Is that what you mean?

            • (Score: 2) by n1 on Monday May 22 2017, @05:54PM (2 children)

              by n1 (993) on Monday May 22 2017, @05:54PM (#513628) Journal

              As I understand it, only logged in users with staff access can see the moderation histories.

              displaying for all to see is likely to create more drama and rivalries.

              • (Score: 2) by Justin Case on Monday May 22 2017, @06:01PM (1 child)

                by Justin Case (4239) on Monday May 22 2017, @06:01PM (#513632) Journal

                You can see what moderation has been applied but not who made the mods -- which I think strikes a perfect balance, except in cases of extreme abuse, where the staff would be the right people to investigate.

                • (Score: 2) by n1 on Monday May 22 2017, @06:08PM

                  by n1 (993) on Monday May 22 2017, @06:08PM (#513638) Journal

                  This is correct, I forgot about that part... For some reason I didn't see it on my phone when i wrote that comment... My mistake.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @02:43PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @02:43PM (#513512)

            Giving myself a bit of a smackdown, VLM was bipartisan with his 14/88 and snowflake tag names. I think my point still stands since VLM has complained about liberal snowflakes in the past.

          • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by VLM on Monday May 22 2017, @08:54PM (1 child)

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @08:54PM (#513752)

            In a side discussion about "what is trolling vs flamebait" your first paragraph is the response I'd expect to a good troll.

            TIFU by not even trolling you back. Part of the problem is my comment was mostly serious "agit-prop" style but I couldn't resist inserting a droplet of troll blood in an otherwise technical discussion, because the technical discussion was about political moderation, and how can you discuss politics without a bit of troll fun? Its like breakfast cereal without milk.

            The other part of the problem is we basically agree on your second paragraph so why would I argue with someone I mostly agree with.

            Another reason not to troll on back was the course thing in the first paragraph is weak sauce, that was a good response like a decade ago, but now? There's an old pattern to it where the leftist says "read a book" or "take a class" or otherwise learn something and the right wing guy is like "yeah I read Mein Kampf" or aced philosopy or post-WWII history or whatever " ... and thats why we need nat soc", its just been over done, like a hollywood sequel. Try some other attack vector. I admit there is a respect for the classical martial arts forms, and in that way putting out a very classic traditional stance like that is a form of respect to the past traditions I could tip my fedora to, if only I owned a fedora; well done in a retro-sense.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @09:32PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @09:32PM (#520372)

              Have you considered joining cirque du soleil?
              Because your mental acrobatics are off the chart!

        • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday May 22 2017, @03:52PM (6 children)

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Monday May 22 2017, @03:52PM (#513550) Journal

          The idea of a non-partisian moderation "Political" is interesting to think about as a more serious, more realistically applicable suggestion.

          Indeed, I don't know whether this is the best option -- but I'm personally a bit confused over the use of the "troll" mod myself, particularly since it exists alongside a "flamebait" mod. To my mind, the very definition of "troll" is generally (~90% of the time) someone posting unnecessarily inflammatory remarks intended to "rile up" other people and/or promote off-topic arguments. Basically, I think the traditional definition of "troll" is usually someone who wants to incite a flamewar. "Flamebait," if anything, sounds to me like the same thing but perhaps more obvious and extreme -- yet they both are just "-1" mods.

          The only case where I occasionally see a non-intersection between "troll" and "flamebait" is when a post contains what appears to be rational argument expressed in a non-offensive way, but it seems likely the writer is actually either ignorant or pretending to be clueless about a topic that a rational person should "know better" about. It may be a more subtle attempt to "troll" by getting folks who actually know better to come out and say, "You idiot! Obviously that's not true, if you just look at the Wikipedia article!" or whatever. On the other hand, if there's nothing downright offensive or inflammatory about the post, it's really difficult to tell whether someone is: (1) actually trolling by acting insincerely to provoke disagreement, (2) just clueless or ignorant, or (3) so enveloped in an alternative worldview that they don't acknowledge the facts against them as valid.

          I think a lot of the "controversial" mods of "troll" fall into category (3), even though that's not really a "troll" to me -- it's just somebody with a different perspective. (Maybe an irrational one to many other people, but not actually a "troll.") Rational discussion is about trying to see whether you can communicate with such gaps in understanding, not summarily dismissing them as "trolls."

          So even in most of those cases, I personally refrain from modding "troll," unless it became clear from subsequent discussion that the main aim was (1). I don't know that a "political" mod would actually encompass the other cases here, though it might cover most (though certainly nowhere close to all) cases of (3).

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @05:50PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @05:50PM (#513626)

            On the other hand, if there's nothing downright offensive or inflammatory about the post, it's really difficult to tell whether someone is: (1) actually trolling by acting insincerely to provoke disagreement, (2) just clueless or ignorant, or (3) so enveloped in an alternative worldview that they don't acknowledge the facts against them as valid.

            I will occasionally engage in (1) for several reasons: To point up the idiocy of a particular point of view, to provoke predictable responses from those who lack critical thinking skills, and to test the validity of Poe's Law [wikipedia.org].

            as to (2) and (3), I suppose you'll just have to judge for yourself whether or not I engage in such comments.

            Posting AC for (I hope) obvious reasons.

          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Monday May 22 2017, @08:27PM (4 children)

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @08:27PM (#513733)

            I always saw "trolling" "flamebait" as victim behaviors, speed of ignition.

            One trolls like trolling for fish, which involves crusing by in your boat with a tasty morsel on a hook hoping the victim snaps at which point its game on.

            My 14/88 mention was somewhat troll-ish in that way. Although if no one snaps, hey its also valid commentary to claim we'd end up with partisan moderation names that are kinda snarky, the level of snark sounds very SN in those names which makes the post at least semi-legit. I could turn that light-trolling into outright flamebaiting by suggesting perhaps our moderation tag names for right and left wing moderations should be the "master race" and the "cucks". I know darn well that would get a chuckle out of right wingers while also infuriating and insulting the left wingers which is what makes that flamebaiting as I don't need to lure someone into snapping at a hook, this is game on 100% full throttle at the start.

            Now flamebait is like chumming the waters; its like dumping a bucket of gasoline next to a campfire. You aren't hoping for a response, you know from experience there's going to be a response and proactively you've staked out a heavily defended position.

            I can't think of a recent example but a stereotypical editor war would be very flamebait, "I use the one true editor that being emacs only chumps would use anything else" You don't even need to trick an innocent bystander into snapping at the hook to light off a flamewar. I could turn that around into trolling by rephrasing it acting all innocent asking if anyone around heres knowns anything about program editing and might someone please have a suggestion for the best editor for me to try out, knowing darn well that's some bystander is going to snap at that hook then its off to the flames.

            • (Score: 1) by DECbot on Monday May 22 2017, @08:31PM (3 children)

              by DECbot (832) on Monday May 22 2017, @08:31PM (#513735) Journal

              Are you so opposed to systemd that you've blocked it from your recollection?

              --
              cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
              • (Score: 2) by VLM on Monday May 22 2017, @09:03PM (2 children)

                by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @09:03PM (#513763)

                Yeah, you're correct, I forgot to mention that trolling always has some off-topic taste whereas flamebait tastes kinda on topic.

                Trolling is like we're talking about grilling steaks and someone drives by and tosses a molotov cocktail in the bbq and suddenly flamewar everywhere.

                Whereas flamebait is like we're talking about flaming bananas foster and you're like what the hell lets use a whole bottle of 151 rum and next thing you know the entire kitchen is flamewar everywhere.

                • (Score: 2) by DECbot on Monday May 22 2017, @09:44PM (1 child)

                  by DECbot (832) on Monday May 22 2017, @09:44PM (#513785) Journal

                  Ah, I'm following along. So my previous comment is somewhat trollish as it is on topic and can be construed as part of the conversation, but lures people to an off topic flamewar. While going to an article about recent systemd updates and spouting some nonsense like "the only merits that warrants systemd as the default Linux init system are dubious!" is flamebait.

                  --
                  cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
                  • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:57PM

                    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:57PM (#514239)

                    That's pretty much how I'd see it, although internet culture being extremely big there is an aspect of the blind men comically trying to explain the elephant. With a side dish of I can tell a hell of a story, but if someone can tell a better one, I might dig the better one, so there is cultural drift.

      • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday May 22 2017, @07:26PM

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @07:26PM (#513688)

        Urban Dictionary has some definitions for "14/88":

        My calculator also has a definition for 14/88: 0.1590909 (recurring)

    • (Score: 1) by oakgrove on Monday May 22 2017, @07:59PM

      by oakgrove (5864) on Monday May 22 2017, @07:59PM (#513711)

      I long for the day I receive (Score 5: 14/88)