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posted by on Monday May 22 2017, @06:53PM   Printer-friendly
from the cost-effective dept.

The federal government has, in recent years, paid debt collectors close to $1 billion annually to help distressed borrowers climb out of default and scrounge up regular monthly payments. New government figures suggest much of that money may have been wasted.

Nearly half of defaulted student-loan borrowers who worked with debt collectors to return to good standing on their loans defaulted again within three years, according to an analysis by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. For their work, debt collectors receive up to $1,710 in payment from the U.S. Department of Education each time a borrower makes good on soured debt through a process known as rehabilitation. They keep those funds even if borrowers subsequently default again, contracts show. The department has earmarked more than $4.2 billion for payments to its debt collectors since the start of the 2013 fiscal year, federal spending data show.

[...] Officials at the CFPB say the government should reexamine whether the loan program, and the lucrative contracts it bestows on private firms, is working for the millions of Americans struggling to repay their taxpayer-backed student debt.

"When student loan companies know that nearly half of their highest-risk customers will quickly fail, it's time to fix the broken system that makes this possible," said Seth Frotman, the consumer bureau's top student-loan official.

-- submitted from IRC


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Monday May 22 2017, @07:29PM (24 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Monday May 22 2017, @07:29PM (#513689) Journal
    Education has very little to do with academics and very much to do with virtue signalling. You spend 4 years, at great expense, learning to perform the currently fashionable rites, and you get a piece of paper that other people who also wasted 4 years and lots of money getting a similar piece of paper will look on with approval. It shows you're the right kind of person, to be hired in preference to the unwashed people that were getting real work experience while you were learning to weave baskets and chant anti-patriarchy slogans.

    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    Starting Score:    1  point
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       Insightful=4, Informative=1, Overrated=1, Total=6
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @08:47PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @08:47PM (#513745)

    Great, you've discovered a way to make yourself feel superior to others, because that's what's important in life. Stand around and jerk off to how great you are, that's the ticket to a good life.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @09:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @09:29PM (#513776)

      I like you.
      You're the right kind of person.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by ikanreed on Monday May 22 2017, @08:50PM (18 children)

    by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @08:50PM (#513749) Journal

    This certainly ranks among the most retarded hot take in the history of dimwitted analyses.

    It's bad enough to merely drag out the alt-right's favorite vague, unfounded accusation of "virtue signaling", but it's utterly incomprehensible how you and everyone who upvoted you can so monumentally misunderstand a term whose meaning is embedded right there in the name.

    I get you're only using the term because you value how shitty and worthless you are as a human being and are desperately looking for a way to excuse your failure in life by constructing the basic human decency of others as somehow flawed, but can you please at least use your idiot misappropriations of language in the correct context?

    Signaling in game theory(and biology and a few other fields) is the general concept of engaging in a behavior to represent that you possess that quality. If we're talking biology it's frequently in a way that consumes or exhausts resources to separate the individual from those casually pretending to have the quality.

    Now, to interpret a fairly obvious fact that your "wah sjws" whine completely failed to even broach: virtue signaling would be behaviors designed to indicate that one has socially positive moral characteristics. That is to say, used in the villifying sense that whatever dumb blogs you read would use it, virtue signaling would be to act like you are trustworthy in order to cynically manipulate positive responses from others.

    A degree is not that. Not even in said, cynically retarded interpretation of human society. It might be a class signal, to represent ones station. It might be a stability signal, to indicate that one can hold ones' trousers one for four years without giving up on the modest tasks of passing university courses. It can even be an interest signal to tell prospective employers that you like or care about what they do.

    Now, if you were to rewrite your screed towards a modicum of accuracy towards your own fucking ideology, it'd still be full of shit, but at least it would because your ideology is dumb, and not because your a shitty monkey flinging YouTube IntellectualTM branded shit without any actual understanding of what you're claiming.

    In short, go fuck yourself.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @08:56PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @08:56PM (#513754)

      He got +5 because the phrase "virtue signal" is itself a virtue signal.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by ikanreed on Monday May 22 2017, @09:09PM (4 children)

        by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @09:09PM (#513767) Journal

        That's the standard turn-around on the idiots who use the phrase, but I don't think it's accurate.

        The under-educated sociologist in me says it's actually a tribal signal. They aren't trying to communicate that they're good, trustworthy people to form bonds with. They're indicating an affiliation. It's more akin to wearing a Red Sox jersey to work than talking to a stranger about how you're on the way to a soup kitchen to volunteer, after you hit the gym. And the upvoters are exactly the kind of tribalists who would buy it.

        Either way, the clear distinction between definition and usage tells me they have no interest in meaningfully trying to communicate a real concept.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:46AM (3 children)

          I think you're missing that it's being used ironically and derisively. SJWs have no real virtues, thus the need to signal so hard.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:27AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:27AM (#514017)

            Standard response to idiocy. Followup sentence about potential trolling. Heading off TMBs inevitable statement about it being completely serious. Realization that the whole exercise if futile. Cynical statement detailing the failings of tribal members.

          • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:17PM

            by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:17PM (#514252) Journal

            Does your brain work, buzzard?

            There's no "irony" in using a phrase a bunch of neofascists cooked up to vaguely and incorrectly attack the very same people the neofascist movements hate. You know you can't just say "it's a joke" after being called on your shit unless, you know, it's actually true.

            No wait, you don't know that, because you have a complete absence of personal integrity.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:37AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:37AM (#513894)

        I modded you up because your post had "virtue signal" in it twice.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Justin Case on Monday May 22 2017, @09:05PM (6 children)

      by Justin Case (4239) on Monday May 22 2017, @09:05PM (#513764) Journal

      A degree is certainly a signal; I don't think you're debating that.

      I'd call it a quality signal, which is close enough to virtue that I'm willing to let arik slide on this one.

      I had one teacher (of incentives and game theory) ask the class rhetorically "Why you go graduate school get degree? Because you know you better than the next guy." (English was not his first language.)

      Like most signals, it can be faked. There was a time when graduating college was a fairly reliable signal. Somebody noticed that college graduates get the best jobs. So, they absurdly concluded, if everyone goes to college everyone can have the best jobs. Being "best" became a civil right to be subsidized by your tax dollars. Now we have a flood of "best" people only willing to do the "best" jobs, and nobody (from this country) willing to harvest potatoes.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by ikanreed on Monday May 22 2017, @09:15PM

        by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @09:15PM (#513770) Journal

        Since now we're actually talking about reality: I still think that's full of shit.

        It's a signal the same way all our job titles and deeds and licenses and every other fucking piece of mundane bureaucracy we file away in a cabinet in our spare bedroom is: nobody knows shit about who you are and what you've done and the pieces of paper help establish that, yes, maybe you're an idiot, but in this case you're an idiot who has at least had to write a merge sort once in their life. Yes, you paid 250,000 for these 3 acres. Yes, someone sat with you and made sure you could drive without speeding for 10 minutes, and you're not totally blind.

        That is to say: no they don't speak to your actual competence beyond some minimum, but a lot of people don't have that minimum, and so they're useful.

      • (Score: 2) by Arik on Monday May 22 2017, @10:33PM

        by Arik (4543) on Monday May 22 2017, @10:33PM (#513816) Journal
        Insightful.

        It's a signal which at this point in time has essentially become fetishized and made into a virtue of its own, and the way you describe it is pretty much the way I remember it.
        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday May 22 2017, @11:09PM

        by krishnoid (1156) on Monday May 22 2017, @11:09PM (#513833)

        Now we have a flood of "best" people only willing to do the "best" jobs, and nobody (from this country) willing to harvest potatoes.

        To be fair, the potatoes can also be somewhat (inconsistently) selective [youtube.com].

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @11:49PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @11:49PM (#513845)

        Which is odd because potato pickers arent evenly distributed between the genders and races. We must fight for equality of pickers, more women and white people!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @12:53AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @12:53AM (#513869)

          Heh.

          Think of it this way. If you're serious about doing something about illegal immigration, you have to be serious about making sure that farmers have seasonal labor available to harvest potatoes or whatever. If all you're serious about is just hounding some brown people who were unlucky enough to be caught (wherever here is) illegally, you're sort of dipping into racism territory.

          Yes, yes, I've heard "illegal is not a race" enough times. I mean look. I grew up not far from farm country, with blueberry fields in walking distance. There were migrant kids in the classroom with me. Somebody has to pick those blueberries, and that was one opportunity that was available for me when I was 12 and wanted money to buy whatever was trendy, say fidget spinners because I don't remember. (Magic the Gathering? Pogs? Something like that.) However, it was an under-the-table opportunity. You can pay kids who aren't old enough to work legally, and you can also pay migrants who aren't here legally.

          Point is, somebody needs to do it, and I think even minimum wage is too high. I'm not going to pretend to be able to formulate the Golden Answer to this problem in an AC post to SN, but if you really want to stop illegal immigration, you need to adjust the law so that 12 year old kids can pick those blueberries. (There are special rules for agricultural CDLs in my state, why not agricultural workers?) Then you need to really crack down on blueberry farmers who pay for labor under the table. Once that's done, then I'll agree that "illegal" isn't a race.

          Of course, the blueberry farmers absolutely won't like it. Even if you make this special class of agricultural labor tax-free (and why not, that seems a reasonable way to transition to me), now you're requiring the blueberry farmers to keep track of shit loads of paperwork they never had to before, especially since we're talking about people who don't have state ID.

          That may also increase diversity among seasonal agricultural laborers by essentially allowing these jobs to be fully exposed to the market. Or it may not. I spent too long typing this. I leave this half-baked post for somebody else to tear apart. Holy crap I went off topic.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:16AM

            by Arik (4543) on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:16AM (#513918) Journal
            "Think of it this way. If you're serious about doing something about illegal immigration, you have to be serious about making sure that farmers have seasonal labor available to harvest potatoes or whatever. "

            And here's how you do that. It's called a price mechanism. The price of manual labor rises until people are willing to do it again. The price of potatoes rises until the farmers can afford to pay that much.

            "Yes, yes, I've heard "illegal is not a race" enough times. "

            It's not, and it's odd that you seem to be dissing the notion without engaging it.

            "However, it was an under-the-table opportunity. You can pay kids who aren't old enough to work legally, and you can also pay migrants who aren't here legally."

            This illustrates two solid rules that the legislators all too often forget - good intentions don't guarantee good results, and the little people you are trying to control are always going to resist in the ways they can (because they must.)

            So, politics is the art of compromise. I'd go for repealing the child labor laws AND simplifying the legal immigration process into something that mere humans can navigate without lawyers. I suspect we can both agree on eliminating the H1B program and if so we can throw that in too and call it the grand compromise.

            "Point is, somebody needs to do it, and I think even minimum wage is too high. I'm not going to pretend to be able to formulate the Golden Answer to this problem in an AC post to SN, but if you really want to stop illegal immigration, you need to adjust the law so that 12 year old kids can pick those blueberries. (There are special rules for agricultural CDLs in my state, why not agricultural workers?) Then you need to really crack down on blueberry farmers who pay for labor under the table. Once that's done, then I'll agree that "illegal" isn't a race.

            Of course, the blueberry farmers absolutely won't like it. Even if you make this special class of agricultural labor tax-free (and why not, that seems a reasonable way to transition to me), now you're requiring the blueberry farmers to keep track of shit loads of paperwork they never had to before, especially since we're talking about people who don't have state ID.

            That may also increase diversity among seasonal agricultural laborers by essentially allowing these jobs to be fully exposed to the market. Or it may not. I spent too long typing this. I leave this half-baked post for somebody else to tear apart. "

            Well I don't know if it counts as tearing you apart, but your first mistake is not to quit digging.

            You make this big costly system with all this cost of compliance... why?

            Just legalize freedom and be done with it.
            --
            If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:00AM (3 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:00AM (#513909) Journal
      I can see I hit a nerve.

      "virtue signaling would be behaviors designed to indicate that one has socially positive moral characteristics."

      Correct.

      "That is to say, used in the villifying sense that whatever dumb blogs you read would use it, virtue signaling would be to act like you are trustworthy in order to cynically manipulate positive responses from others."

      As an example, sure, but it's not limited to that single virtue. Virtue signalling means, exactly as you said, outward behaviors intended to demonstrate virtue.

      Think about that. It's an action that implies at least two actors - a subject, the one who sends the signal - and an object, the one who is to receive the signal. In order to successfully send a voluntary virtue signal the actor must correctly judge the preferences of the object. To pick a stark example, wearing a yarmulke on your head could be an effective way to virtue signal when the object of the signal is an orthodox rabbi - but the same hat on the same head would be not have the same significance when the object of the signal is a self-described 'nazi skinhead' whose endless rants about dajoos have finally worn right through your last nerve.

      Degrees have always served as virtue signals at that level, the difference being which virtues are believed to be signaled, by whom, and to what degree. Those things all change over time, but the basic function has always been part of the package. Those who have already 'paid their dues' in this way are almost inescapably going to view it as an indicator of one sort of virtue or another. Their self-image requires it. That makes them devilishly effective things, even when you learn absolutely nothing in the process of getting them.
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:19PM

        by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 23 2017, @02:19PM (#514254) Journal

        "U mad bro" as a response to you being completely full of shit is lazy.

        Again. Go fuck yourself.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday May 23 2017, @03:57PM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 23 2017, @03:57PM (#514330) Journal

        "implies at least two actors - a subject, . . . - and an object,"

        There you go, objectifying people again. UP WITH FEMINISM!!

        ;^) Just kidding

        • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:59PM

          by Arik (4543) on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:59PM (#514462) Journal
          If it's a sore subject for me it's honestly because I like feminism - the other kind that no one thinks of when you use the word anymore. But what's taken over the brand just seems like a bunch of neo-marxism combined with a stubborn refusal to speak English.
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @09:26PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @09:26PM (#513773)

    Education has very little to do with academics and very much to do with virtue signalling.

    No, that's schooling. Schooling very frequently does not result in a quality education.

  • (Score: 0, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @09:58PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 22 2017, @09:58PM (#513797)

    白左!

    • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:37AM

      by Arik (4543) on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:37AM (#513893) Journal
      White left? What?
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?