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The Guardian reports:
At least 19 people were killed and more than 50 injured after an explosion in the foyer area of a crowded Manchester concert hall, which left hundreds of people fleeing in terror. [...] Police said they were dealing with a possible terror incident and counter-terrorism officials were assessing what caused the explosion. Investigators from the police and the domestic security service MI5 were part of the investigation.
Greater Manchester Police statement:
I can confirm the details of events tonight that we currently know. At around 10.33pm last night we received reports of an explosion at the Manchester Arena in the city centre. It was at the conclusion of an Ariana Grande concert.
Currently we have 19 people confirmed to have died and around 50 people injured.
The injured are being treated at six hospitals across Greater Manchester. My thoughts are with all those who have been affected and we are doing all we can to support them.
[...] We are currently treating this as a terrorist incident until we know otherwise. We are working closely with the national counter-terrorism policing network and UK intelligence partners.
Unnamed sources, who have not been directly quoted are widely reported as suspecting this incident was a suicide bombing.
Multiple senior U.S. law enforcement officials briefed by British authorities told NBC News that forensic evidence at the scene — including a body found at the blast site — indicated a suicide attack. British and U.S. law enforcement officials said they believed they had tentatively identified the bomber.
U.S. officials said initial reports indicated that some of the casualties might have been caused by a stampede of concert-goers.
Sky News reports:
Officers carried out a controlled explosion at nearby Cathedral Gardens shortly after 1.30am, but have since confirmed the item they found was abandoned clothing and not suspicious.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by isostatic on Tuesday May 23 2017, @04:19AM (20 children)
Been 21 years since the last time Manchester was blown up, by US funded Irish terrorists. 2 years later we had the good friday peace agreement.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Tuesday May 23 2017, @05:35AM (17 children)
Is it confirmed that the Irish are behind this latest attack?
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Tuesday May 23 2017, @05:47AM (13 children)
Not at all. But that's not the point being made by GP. (The people responsible for last bombing in Manchester engaged in a non-violent resolution process two years later.)
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday May 23 2017, @07:21AM (12 children)
Obviously the same thing won't happen here. If (and it's a big if - last time there was a nailbomb attack in the UK is was a neo-nazi) the perpetrator is a radicalised Muslim the only way to deal with it is to prevent that radicalisation, which means removing the cause of that radicalisation.
(Score: 3, Touché) by sce7mjm on Tuesday May 23 2017, @09:54AM (11 children)
The problem is "the cause" of the this is western democracy.
The extremists don't want anyone to be free if it is a definition of free different from there own. They use fear and violence to rule. The west (in their own countries) do this to a relatively lesser extent and guarantee certain rights, to (almost) all of their populations.
The western world threatens them because we are free to a much greater extent than there doctrine demands,
Not that we advertise it much in the east, since we seem to play into the propaganda machine of various extremists groups, in their own countries. But the real reason the war exists is POWER. Heaven forbid that common men, women, gays, infidels, gingers etc. should realize that they don't have to do what some idiot demands.
This is demonstrated by the targeting of the attacks in the west. Innocent people expressing their freedom at night clubs, concerts, football games etc. How terribly evil of them.
To remove "the cause" would be to remove the freedom the western population has. Either capitulate or tighten security so the nations become just like the oppressive regimes we are currently being attacked by.
Being free comes at a cost of allowing nasty bastards to also be free. That will never end.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @11:33AM (2 children)
Bullshit. In the '90-ies, the western democracy wasn’t quite the joke it is today, yet I didn't hear about any "radical Islam terrorism" at that time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @12:30PM
Because in the 1990s most practitioners of radical Islam terrorism were present in their own continent. And had few options to mess around with people in the west. Smartphones with internet didn't enable efficient organization either, because they didn't exist in any large numbers.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:41PM
Maybe you should inform yourself, then. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2, Disagree) by VLM on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:27PM
Western progressives behave exactly the same way. In this situation its not an us vs them.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday May 23 2017, @01:32PM
Classic left wing vs right wing perspective problem.
The view from the left is they're standing on magic dirt so they're one of us and if there's any problem we must change.
The view from the right is if they're carrying out military operations against our civilians that is a hint that they might not see themselves as "us" or see themselves as part of western civilization, regardless of standing on magic dirt, so if there's any problem the troublemakers need to be kicked out, just like a bouncer at a bar would do if a fight breaks out.
No matter how many western civilization civilians we enable and encourage them to kill, they're not going to join our culture or share our values. Any more than military success in gunning down Taliban in Afghanistan would somehow magically convert western soldiers into joining the Taliban.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday May 23 2017, @05:57PM (5 children)
> The western world threatens them because we are free to a much greater extent than there doctrine demands,
Bullshit. Propagandist bullshit, at that.
The Western civilization keeps fucking up people's way of life, for its own profit (physical and/or moral).
Note that even china is guilty of this, by flooding markets worldwide with cheap stuff.
Add the remnants of colonialism, racism, and a nice big economic crisis, and you end up with a whole lot of people feeling useless and angry at the world in general, and specifically the West since their last reference point (the preacher) rightfully tells them that's the easy answer.
How do I exist? How am I someone important when every door is slammed in my face?
By frightening those who saw themselves as all powerful and made us nobody ... because fuck you all, even if I'm dead when I'm famous.
Many good western Christians could think the same way about the current rape of the economic system by a few shameless bastards, but their system has been optimized to make most of them believe they have something to lose.
It's was never about hating our freedoms. Forget that W-era bullshit.
(Score: 2) by sce7mjm on Wednesday May 24 2017, @09:41AM (4 children)
I have not said that the entirity of the problem is entirely down to the freedom of the west, but that is the cause of these attacks on these specific targets. Which was my point.
But the targetting is designed to simply kill 'pagans' as often claimed by ISIS themselves or designed to change Western government policy to reduce Western engagement in the East or designed to conduct easy murder of any westerner because the opportunity is available.
Or most likely a mixture of all three.
Their definition of PAGANS is those who do not follow their own rules. That includes an awful lot of people. Including other Muslims.
You may be right in terms of the overall effect and the large extent impact of the West on the environment that exists in the East,
But trying to justify killing innocents because of the detrimental effect of the west whilst at the same time ignoring the economic benefits of trading with the west, at the same time really is BULLSHIT. Thats all propaganda. But the bombs from both sides are real and the bodies are real. None of it is really justifiable.
'It's was never about hating our freedoms. Forget that W-era bullshit.'
In their claims about the targetting of the bataclan, that is what ISIS said. They may not have said 'hate' but that was the claimed reason it was targeted, "exhibiting prostitution and vice", I believe were the words used to discribe kids having a dance, so yes it was about having freedom.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:23PM (3 children)
That's why those guys have already leveled Bangkok and Macau, right?
(Score: 2) by sce7mjm on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:03PM (2 children)
Muslims are tolerated but their practices restricted in those countries, are they not?
Logic would say that they should be attacking their oppressors. Your right it is odd. But that just backs up what I am saying.
Muslims are FREE to pray and do what they like in the UK .
You don't think the freedom aspect has any relevance?
You don't think hate preachers see the freedoms that are allowed in the UK and are concerned thier own followers and community will leave the religion not because of opression but because of freedom? When looked at like that could freedom be classed as temptation? You don't think they would want to prevent that by causing fear of the actions that freedom allows?
Do you really think if the west did not intervene at all (does that include not buying oil, where do you draw the line?) that the middle east would be peaceful? That oppression in the middle east would not exist?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:15PM (1 child)
Are you asserting that preachers are sending people to blow themselves up, so they don't leave for the freedoms which they have been enjoying since they were born?
That logic contortion hurts my brain.
(Score: 2) by sce7mjm on Thursday May 25 2017, @03:42PM
Not quite. Thats probably why it hurts.
The preachers are sending people to blow themselves up so others don't leave the faith and remain loyal to the faith, but also to scare the pagans enough to either change behavior to be more like the religion, or get the west to not intervene in the east.
Same as gang culture.
Same as a cult.
Power by fear.
It makes about as much sense as the UK withdrawing all interaction with the east (aid, purchase of oil,as well as military support) to prevent the attacks.
Note the UK currently has less troops now in iraq or afghanistan so surely the terrorists plan of 'get the west out of the east by planting bombs' were getting what they want. This attack is likely to increase support of miltary in the east, completely the opposite to what they supposedly want. So it also makes no sense.
Trying to apply logic to the situation only works if the situation is black and white. The situation is not black and white so logic becomes fuzzy and the result's are often surprising, unless you look past the obvious (but not the complete) picture.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:25AM (2 children)
Irish people don't have a history of suicide bombing?
(Not attacking children explicitly either I think)
(Score: 1) by butthurt on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:56AM
> Irish people don't have a history of suicide bombing?
AFAIK they don't (or didn't). Is it confirmed that this is a suicide bombing?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by isostatic on Tuesday May 23 2017, @07:10AM
(Not attacking children explicitly either I think)
Just targeting McDonalds the day before mothers day when kids were out shopping for presents. The fuckers, and their american paymasters, can die in a burning pit of fire
Fortunately for me, those most closely affected were able to swallow their anger and turn that energy into something positive.
(Score: 2) by bradley13 on Tuesday May 23 2017, @06:05AM
And this time it is most likely ISIS, also originally US funded. Unfortunately, ISIS is less likely to come to the negotiating table...
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday May 23 2017, @12:43PM
Yet more proof that Irish culture and identity are incompatible with civilized society. Or, at least that's if you apply the logic some apply to Muslims. Yet they don't. Why is that?
Washington DC delenda est.