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For the first time in 10 years, the Prime Minister said the terror threat had been raised to the highest possible level, from severe to critical, meaning an attack is "expected imminently".
[...] Mrs May also announced that troops would replace police officers at set-piece events including sports venues and concerts.
It will be the first time since 2003 – when the Government reacted to a plot to bring down an airliner – that troops are deployed on the streets.
[...] It is the first time Britain has been on maximum terrorist alert since 2007, when a blazing car loaded with gas canisters was driven into Glasgow Airport.
Source: The Telegraph
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Soldiers Deployed in UK as Threat Level Raised to Critical
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Fascinating is a word I use for the unexpected.
-- Spock, "The Squire of Gothos", stardate 2124.5
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @03:42PM (98 children)
I don't know how smart that is.
Smart would be not letting people from these countries in.
Smart would be rounding up these vermin and deporting them.
Curtailing the freedoms of your own people is not smart, it's authoritarian.
Curtailing the freedoms of your own people as a response to some event which was inevitable given the continued policy of this and previous governments is downright sinister.
This is just a big show of nothing. It will get you no results. The terrorists will just wait till you are done with your show and send the army back to the barracks. Or if it is your intention to keep the armed men there indefinitely thus keeping the country in perpetual state of fear, well then well done terrorists, you have already won thanks to the sinister and/or inept politicians.
Now excuse me while I DON'T vacation in West Europe, or as I prefer to refer to it: CUCKISTAN.
(Score: 5, Informative) by butthurt on Wednesday May 24 2017, @03:56PM (87 children)
> Smart would be not letting people from these countries in.
Like that British man who blew himself up at a concert:
-- http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/7808568/ariana-grande-concert-bomber-details-more-arrests [billboard.com]
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @03:58PM (81 children)
You mean the son of Libyan refugees?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by julian on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:07PM (29 children)
So how many generations back do we carry out this purge? Just curious where your cut off is for a "real" British/US/French citizen. I'm only the 2nd gen born in my country, do I count?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:16PM (5 children)
Islamic "refugees" [twitter.com] should be here on licence for two generations. Withhold citizenship for members of death cults.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:22PM (3 children)
Withhold citizenship for members of death cults.
I like this idea. We should do it in the US. However, it would be hard to achieve politically, because that would cause I'm guessing about 70% of the citizenry to be stripped of their citizenship, including most politicians, since so much of the US is Christian.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:56PM
Oh no most of these true believers would flip the second they were immersed in a culture that ridiculed their stone age beliefs. Most of the rest are only christian because they believe being so will carry some sort of reward.
The rest are such a small number of people.. tell me how often you meet a christian who doesn't have a primary interest in pleasing their peers or getting fabulous prizes in heaven? I know a few but they're exceptionally rare.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:40PM
Leave Steve Bannon ALONE!!! Has he not suffered enough from Saturnday Night Live?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 25 2017, @06:27AM
Hangings for "practicing witchcraft" [google.com]
Doing nasty things to those who don't believe in the proper way. [google.com]
Indiscriminate slaughter of more of the same. [google.com]
There's more than 1 religion that has a lot to answer for.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:41PM
Awful lot of Baby-Boomers who are guilty of slavery by that standard....
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:45PM (8 children)
Saxons out of England! And take those darn Angles with you! Briton for Britons!
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:27PM
Don't say that, the Angles might come to Anglesey [wikipedia.org] by mistake!
(Score: 4, Funny) by TheRaven on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:46PM (5 children)
sudo mod me up
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:08PM (4 children)
Aqueducts
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:13PM (1 child)
London Bridge? Or just, London? And all the "Chesters".
"Of course, all the chesters, no one is questioning that!"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:16PM
And it's safe to walk the streets at night.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Thursday May 25 2017, @08:25AM (1 child)
The lasting influence of aqueducts is still up in the air.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 25 2017, @08:59AM
Have you not been to Bath? It's called "Bath" for a reason. And the reason is aquaducts. Smelly Englishmen!
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:42PM
Mercia Ueber Alles!
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:52PM (12 children)
You can't purge without killing unless you have somewhere to put these people. There's no solution that is even remotely possible if the numbers are large, either way. The numbers will be large if "Islam" or "Arab" are the kind of qualifiers used. And frankly, the number of actual problem individuals is very small. The ones that are actually batshit. To most people, even religious people, religion itself is background noise. It's more about personal spirituality than it is playing superstitious nutbar. It's a focal point for moral lessons and behavioral conditioning.
Anyway, bottom line, we don't have the tech to determine if someone is batshit until they act out. Yet. When we do, this problem could actually be solved. Though I doubt there is any real intent to in government, as government is little more than the hand of the 1% these days, and they love supplying the police and the military. It's just more bread and butter for them.
I have a different idea which could be pursued more-or-less now, though it's pie in the sky at best, because it's designed to actually solve the problem long term and at little cost to the economy. Also, politically, it's very hard, and politicians don't do hard things. They just do easy things and then lie that they were hard. Anyway, here it is...
Destroy all copies of the koran, bible, book of mormon, scientology texts, creationist nonsense, prayer books, hymnals, etc. This would have to be an ongoing project; it'd take decades to get done (and is probably ultimately impossible... but they could be made very, very rare, which would definitely reduce the number of crazies.) Provide severely annoying penalties for possession of religious texts. Basically, remove all of the tangible literature for the major superstitions. Then make it illegal to teach/preach these things. Repurpose the churches. They make great homes, by the way. I live in a repurposed church. :)
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:03PM
> You can't purge without killing unless you have somewhere to put these people.
I hear they regularly clear up some space in Gaza.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:46PM (7 children)
Oh, you mean like in the Soviet Union [wikipedia.org].
And after it fell, Aleksander Solzhenitsyn grew his beard long and started preaching orthodox christianity.
And now Putin is very happy that relics of St. Nicolas are on display at the Kremlin.
So that experiment lasted about 60 years.
See also: Oscar Romero [wikipedia.org], Jerzy Popieluszko [wikipedia.org]. It is difficult to oppress religion.
Even if you get rid of organized religion, you'll get new groups to take its place e.g. Scientology.
It seems that it is somehow wired into us people to accept some things on faith.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:14PM
We seem to be hard wired to form societies where holding beliefs and principles without evidence is admired and encouraged.
Many people make it very difficult for those who wish to take a more rational, evidence-based approach to fit into society.
The Human Race really needs to get over this crazy reverence for superstitious belief.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:31PM (5 children)
Scientology is organized religion.
No, not like the Soviet union. The Soviets didn't fail because they didn't support superstition. They failed, in general, because they provided no mechanism for success for their citizens, and because they could not support the military they insisted they must have.
Superstition in general is not the problem, either. The problem arises when superstition drags a cultural imperative along with it, and instructs that violence is an acceptable means for bringing said cultural imperative about. That's what the crusades, the inquisitions, blood libel, 9/11, scientific repression, witch-burnings, subjugation of women, vilification of sexuality, blue laws, murder of "heretics", etc. were (and are) all about. Both the Christian and Islamic faiths have long, colorful histories of imposing their ideas by means of violence.
Yes, there is a conflict: In order to suppress violence, opposing violence, or at least coercion, has to come into play. If, in order to avoid violence and/or coercion, we cannot successfully impede a threat, then the threat will materialize repeatedly and effectively. This is where we are today.
The root of the problem, and it is the key problem, is that religionists often insist that their right to swing their fist does not end before other's faces begin because their imaginary friend told them so via some bit of writing. Those that do not so insist are rarely problems – and they are rarely to-the-letter believers in the various superstitious texts. The others are using up oxygen to the public's detriment.
The reason I suggest getting rid of the instructional texts, and the corresponding instruction, is because that is specifically where these ideas come from, and because it is a step removed from physical and financial violence. The cost of putting up with superstition is continued mayhem at the behest of long-dead ideologues, con-artists, and crazies. If you're okay with that, well, there you go. If not, either you get rid of the instruction books and silence the instructors, or wait until technology provides mind reading, and society approves mind-reading just to keep you safe. I wouldn't hold my breath on that, either.
The brute solutions are highly indiscriminate mass murder and mass deportation. The former won't fly because reasons, and the latter suffers from nowhere to put the deported. Neither is going to happen.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:39PM
Bingo!
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:06PM (1 child)
It's not that I'm ok with that (I'm not); but my example of the Soviet Union was meant to illustrate that you can repress religion for 60 years, and then still it comes back after the repression is lifted, so repression doesn't work.
Therefore it must have some kind of vigor, an infectious mind construct. Whether that's good or bad depends on how the religion is interpreted in the current context, as well as the 60 years old previous interpretation, or the very old original texts and commentaries.
Maybe it is justified to simplify religions down to: "life cults" good, death cults bad. What would be the point to forbid a "life cult"? To make it more attractive to youngsters? :-)
There's been a large-scale experiment in the recent years: maybe it's a sick thing to say, but I'm curious what percentage of the Chibok girls [bbc.com] will have been indoctrinated to become suicide bombers (death cult), and what percentage is glad that they can now pick up a semblance of a normal life again (life cult). After the government releases them.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:56PM
The lesson I would take from that isn't that "repression doesn't work", it's that the repression should never be lifted. Simple as that. As difficult as that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 25 2017, @06:43AM (1 child)
15 of the 19 were Saudi nationals.
USA has multiple military bases in Saudi Arabia.
USA also continues to sell Saudi Arabia weapons, which are used to oppress/kill Muslims.
My take is that those 15 represented the oppressed population of Saudi Arabia and their desire to have USA's presence and influence out of Saudi Arabia (the most oppressive government on the planet).
...but I could be wrong.
The other stuff you wrote was very good.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Thursday May 25 2017, @10:08AM
> USA also continues to sell Saudi Arabia weapons [...]
So does the UK.
-- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-has-sold-56bn-of-military-hardware-to-saudi-arabia-under-david-cameron-research-reveals-a6797861.html [independent.co.uk]
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/23/uk-in-denial-over-saudi-arms-sales-being-used-in-yemen-claims-oxfam [theguardian.com]
https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/countries/saudi-arabia [caat.org.uk]
/article.pl?sid=16/06/09/1522226 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:38PM (1 child)
Well, look on the bright side, if you don't purge there will be an equal amount of killings, just it'll all be English children because of bombs, instead of muslims.
Its baked in the cake, the only choice you get is who gets the axe.
A lot of anti-white people want the English to get the axe. So that it'll be, one bombing at a time.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:58PM
Unfortunately – very much so – I expect you've hit the nail on the head.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @11:40PM
—Fahrenheit 451
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:48PM
The number of generations is irrelevant. You don't have to be native-born to integrate and you could be 10th generation and still fail to do so.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:08PM (2 children)
If only the native Indians were that smart back in day we wouldn't all those idiotic refugees and immigrants here now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:44PM (1 child)
I blame it on the Clovis people. I mean, come on, a name like "Clovis?" lol! Clearly this is all their fault. They should have killed those agriculturalists with their wicked ideas about a sedentary lifestyle and crop domestication. Stuff like burial mounds should have been the Clovis people's first sign that those foreigners were a death cult.
The Clovis, what a bunch of cucks!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:44PM
Bah! Never mind that, what about those heretics who decided to walk on two legs? That was the start of the slippery slope, I tell you...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:10PM (15 children)
I'm the son of a non-citizen resident alien of my country. I'm the grandson of immigrants.
Does that mean I'm not a "real" native of the country in which I was born, raised and have lived my life?
Fuck you, AC!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:21PM
I'm sure if you are a descendant from a country that subscribe to western values it won't become a big issue.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:21PM (3 children)
I'm the grandson of immigrants.
I don't know, do you adhere to belief system that wants to violently overthrow and subjugate the society in which you live? If you do, why would you find it offensive to be told to fuck off to a country that shares your belief system?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:36PM (2 children)
The US government and their TLAs have been doing that to other countries for decades. Are you suggesting that national politicians and their spooks be stripped of their citizenship and "shipped back where they came from" (or some other undesirable location)?
. . . You might be on to something there.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:39PM (1 child)
Come on, AC, don't tiptoe around, just say Israel. You know I would.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 25 2017, @06:19AM
We all know you would. Not sure you want to be proud of being a nutjob though.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:01PM
I hate to admit it but I've met plenty of people who don't really like america but they think that there is something waiting here for them.
I honestly don't think it does much good to let people in the country who don't like us. Fuck them if their country is a shithole and watch me not even give a fuck if it's our fault.
Most of the current refugees are actually from wars of decades past and not from syria.. yet we all seemed ok to not give a fuck my entire life and indeed even to consume the fruits of their oppression and slave labor.
I think it's ok to help people out but we need to screen them to the point we'd be ok being neighbors with the people we let in. I believe that there are plenty of refugees who we can screen for and allow admission.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:36PM (8 children)
Are you a raghead? Do you think in tribal terms? Are you Muslim? Do you insist on Sharia law in your adopted country? If you answer "yes" to one or more of those questions, then we probably don't need or want you in the west. If you answered "no" to all of those questions, then you have little to worry about. The moment Muslims get a toehold in a host country, they begin undermining the legal system in that country. Do you strive to undermine the law?
We should all be more like Poland. No immigrants. Poland has NOT suffered a terror attack since 9/11/01. Every nation that welcomes immigrants has been the victim of a terror attack. Think about that. http://brilliantmaps.com/terrorism-world-map/ [brilliantmaps.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NewNic on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:21PM (7 children)
It's idiots like you that keep ISIS going. What a former ISIS hostage has to say: [theguardian.com]
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:35PM
Agreed. Runaway is a collaborator with ISIL. Stop it, Runaway! Stop being so terrorized! You are helping the terrorists win, with you being so scared!
(Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:45PM (5 children)
The Guardian, LOL.
What would Churchill have said... hard to believe that country once had a backbone.
Imagine the Guardian from 2017 reporting in 2017 style during WWII. "Lets act nice to the Nazis, maybe if we cuck enough they'll stop bombing London"
(Score: 3, Touché) by NewNic on Wednesday May 24 2017, @09:55PM (3 children)
And, as expected, we have the ad-hominem fallacy in response to my post. I wondered how long it would take before that happened.
Ignore the fact that the article that I quoted was written by someone who actually has first-hand experience of Daesh and isn't actually a Guardian reporter.
No, some anonymous prick on the Internet knows more. </sarcasm>
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday May 24 2017, @10:25PM
There. FTFY. And no sarcasm tag needed.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @11:36PM (1 child)
Another "anonymous prick" here to educate you on how pathological and idealogical losers define success.
As for this latest atrocity...
You clearly do not understand conflict; The Romans understood conflict. We should not be fucking about, any Islamic attack should be met with decimation. That is, one in ten muslims in the target country being executed within 24 hours of an attack occurring. Random selection, no fucking about!
No council in the UK wanted to cremate Ian Brady. [thesun.co.uk] This child killer could not have been cremated in Manchester without massive public violence. Manchester does not forget.
Muslims in Manchester now enjoy the prospect of being treated like Ian Brady, they are no longer equals, they are sub-human. Any typical Mancunian working class or lower middle class male presented with an opportunity to start an altercation will do so. Muslims would be well advised to get used to avoiding eye contact and looking at the floor [theguardian.com] because Manchester does not forget.
Do you now understand what this fucking murderous shithead did on Monday?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 25 2017, @06:29AM
followed by
You are a sociopath, maybe you'd find more community in ooohhh I dunno, some group that thinks such tactics are #winning ?
Horrifying atrocities only prolong the problem, punting it down the road until an even greater % of the various subjugated people see who the real monsters are. Clue: there can be more than one set of bad guys.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Thursday May 25 2017, @08:30AM
Sure, but WWII bombing of London etc was a precursor to military invasion (or at least done with the threat of invasion). I don't see that happening this time.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:15PM
> You mean the son of Libyan refugees?
Yes, that one. When deporting/imprisoning/killing people of foreign descent, where shall it end?
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:18PM (30 children)
It is a tough one, some people will not integrate for generations. The answer that you are looking for is that you should not have allowed the parents in the first place. However it is too late for that.
You can't deport/incarcerate innocents "just in case" or because of the actions of one man.
If you stopped immigration into your country right now, it would take 3 or so generations for the existing ones to fully integrate, and for those who refuse to do so to either leave or be forced to leave.
However, you will still potentially have problems for the next 3 generations. This isn't a problem you can solve overnight, unless you want to go all genocidal on them.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:52PM (26 children)
Everything I've read so far indicates that the parents are kindly, community-minded people who have never caused trouble for anyone. There's no reason whatsoever to have denied them entry. The apparent bomber himself seems to have been much the same way until recently when he started acting weird and aggressive. My money's on "cuts to mental health funding and social care let a potentially decent kid fall off the deep end, with unusually horrible consequences." I doubt that story will be allowed to gain traction though.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:39PM (22 children)
"There's no reason whatsoever"
Incompatible religious beliefs. Muslims believe the only proper thing to do with infidels, is to kill them.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:51PM (20 children)
Runaway, you ignorant slut! This:
is just plain false. Have you been hanging out with Michael Flynn again? Sometimes actual combat with people who shoot back scares the shit out of Americans so badly that they start believing things that are just not true. You are a bigoted, racist, uneducated, Fox News watching, Brietbarf reading, Beacon leering right-wing nut-job, Runaway! You are not an American.
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:02PM (19 children)
No, I'm not hanging with Flynn. Instead, I read the Quran. Infidels are good for raping, taxing, killing, and enslaving. There is no other use for a nonbeliever. Go, read it for yourself.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:26PM (11 children)
Surah 4 An-Nisa, Ayat 29
(وَلَا تَقۡتُلُوۡۤا اَنۡـفُسَكُمۡؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ كَانَ بِكُمۡ رَحِيۡمًا ﴿4:29
Truly, you are an idiot, Runaway, and easily mislead.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:37PM (5 children)
I'm the idiot? Really?
0 YOU who have attained to faith! Do not devour one another's possessions wrongfully - not even by way of trade based on mutual agreement38 - and do not destroy one another: for, behold, God is indeed a dispenser of grace unto you!
That is a commandment that one Muslim should not try to take another Muslim's possessions. It says nothing, in that verse, about unbelievers. There are a lot of verses that deal with unbelievers, though - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx [thereligionofpeace.com]
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:54PM (4 children)
Rather strange translation. I take it you cannot read Arabic? So how do you know this interpretation is correct? Yes, Runaway, you are a child, a Trump, taking a position purely out of fear and emotion about things you really do not understand at all. If I were you, I would try to say less, so as not to reveal your ignorance even more.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:30PM (3 children)
We all have access to multiple translations from different scholars who can read classical Arabic. These translations all say pretty much the same thing. Of course, Muhammed and his followers were mostly illiterate and there are so many misused imported words, that serious scholars conclude the Quran does not really make sense in any language. So I put the question to you: Can you read classical Arabic? Even then, how do you know your interpretation is correct?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:58PM (2 children)
What interpretation? I have offered none!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:16PM (1 child)
What interpretation? I have offered none!
You deny both translation and interpretation are required to assert a translation was strange? You're arguing an-Nisa 4:29 [islamawakened.com] is not specifically referring to muslims?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:45PM
Are you one of those idiots that thinks that non-US citizens do not have rights under the US Constitution?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:47PM (1 child)
Sigh... [cbn.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:21PM
Goldstein's Book [amazon.com]. Also demolishes Judaism and Christianity,
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:37PM (1 child)
I don't have a go-to preferred translation for this one such as The Message, my favorite for the works collected in the Bible, but let's see if one of these will do [islamawakened.com]. I'm also familiar enough with those works to be able to evaluate how close a particular translation may be to the mark.
As translated by Wahiduddin Khan:
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday May 24 2017, @09:16PM
I think I meant to type a “not” in that sentence somewhere, as in I'll admit I have no clue. However I also forgot to do my usual thing where I add context.
I made up the paragraph breaks there out of whole cloth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:12PM
I'll just leave this video on the abrogation in Islam [youtube.com] among many other things.
The tl;dw is that Islamic scripture is self-contradictionary and doublethink is deeply ingrained in it's rhetoric. Mutually exclusive ideas are held as equally true and later verses are simply "more true" than the earlier ones.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:30PM (3 children)
You realize, of course, that most Muslims don't truly follow the Quran, right? When you say "Muslims believe X" and use the Quran as evidence that they believe X, you're utterly failing to take into account different interpretations of the Quran or that many Muslims just outright ignore it while pretending that they're not (a common occurrence among religious people).
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:39PM (2 children)
And, you realize that Islamic countries have their "Morality Police" to ensure that the populace do follow the Quran? Don't be the girl caught holding her boyfreind's hand in public!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 25 2017, @06:38AM (1 child)
Yes, the hard line secular assholes have managed to gain power in large parts of the middle east. Why is that? Oh ya, the US / Russia / China have been fucking with the area and destabilizing every legitimate government. You do realize that there is a massive movement in the US happening RIGHT NOW trying to undermine democracy and promote our very own secular dictatorship.
What you should have is empathy for the millions stuck under such inhumane laws, and motivation to try and get democracy back on track in the middle east and elsewhere. Instead you apply the worst caricatures to entire populations and are basically the unwitting dupe of terrorists by spreading hateful propaganda that works for their purposes.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 25 2017, @02:04PM
Hmmmm - interesting thought. "legitimate government" Can you name a "legitimate government" in the Middle East? Try this: Find a map prior to - ohhh - 1850 that has Syria on it. Or, Lebanon. Or, Iran. Or, Palestine, for that matter. So, where did all these countries come from, anyway? Well, Iran has a lot of historical coherence. Iran is the descendant of Persia. The rest? Made up out of the imaginations of colonial masters. Countries were "created" according to crazy schemes of influence, ownership, tribute, and economic convenience. If nations had been created in the interest of the people of those nations, we would see the Kurds in possession of a nation - possibly named Kurdistan. Instead, we see the Kurds scattered among three mostly hostile nations.
Legitimate governments aren't imposed on people by outside forces, none of whom ever plan to be part of that government, or even that nation.
But, of course, we don't respect "legitimate governments" anyway. We toppled a perfectly legitimate democratic government in Iran for the sake of saving a few cents on a barrel of oil. To hell with legitimacy, democracy, justice, and all other considerations if they stand in the way of profit.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:38PM (2 children)
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:47PM
Obviously, in situations like this, where it is a question of a sacred text, we should defer to the opinion of the learned Mullah Runaway! He is very studied in both the Koran and the Hadith, and has gained much learning from right-wing nut-job scaredy-pants "clash of civlizations" websites.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:47PM
Yet there's a hadith that states it's okay to attack the Arab pagans by night because the woman and children are "of them". You need to read all the primary sources... and still can't reliably interpret the disordered, endlessly contradictory ramblings of a 7th Century psychopath as related by his illiterate followers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:44PM
I saw a comment earlier that suggested he'd stopped going to his local mosque as they'd been preaching about the evils of Daesh. I'm not a Muslim and don't go to mosques so have no idea if that's bullshit or not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:47PM (1 child)
Ramadan Abedi (the father) has just been arrested in Tripoli, along with the guys brother who has alleged links to IS.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:03PM
That has come to light since I read this: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/manchester-arena-attacker-named-salman-abedi-suicide-attack-ariana-grande [theguardian.com] which even gives a different name for the father.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @07:01PM
And my money is on being radicalized through one of the many Wahabist Imams operating across Britain. [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:14PM
Wanna bet? [wikipedia.org] Some cultures are simply incomptable with our own. [eclj.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:07PM (1 child)
"You can't deport/incarcerate innocents "just in case""
We have plenty of historical examples that say you really can do that. In fact, Muslims are quite good at doing that very thing: http://www.history.com/topics/armenian-genocide [history.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:50PM
Of course you physically could, you moron. The question is whether it is morally right, whether it is just. But no doubt someone so scared to death of Islam as you are would not even stop to consider such things. Terrorism has reduced you to a immoral moron, you muddle-headed myopic mucksucker.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:44PM (3 children)
Obviously mistakes were made in the past, like letting his parents into the country, granting automatic citizenship to anyone born in your country, etc. All these are counter to self-preservation of you and your culture. As a first generation immigrant I feel the pull of my homeland everyday. It's naive to think people coming to another country will assimilate. I love my new country, but I will never love it even a third as much as my homeland. Luckily my culture and the culture of my new home are not too different. There is plenty of differences, don't get me wrong, but they are not as big as me thinking I can rape any woman I see alone.
I only pray my children will grow up to love their ancestral home even half as much as I do, it will take work on my part, but that is my duty.
Maybe UK can't walk this one back, but other countries have not made the same mistakes, and should not start now. Learn from this.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:07PM (2 children)
Your ideas are not without precedent. Australia is very cautious about admitting refugees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_affair [wikipedia.org]
Qatar is very cautious about granting citizenship:
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Qatar [wikipedia.org]
Adoption of such policies in response to terrorism would rightly be perceived as a success by the terrorists.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:29PM (1 child)
Of course, they would be! For a while there, all the immigrants were criminals!
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday May 24 2017, @11:47PM
That includes both the convicts AND their gaolers.
http://www.therocks.com/the-new-south-wales-marine-corps-and-new-south-wales-corps-1788-1809/ [therocks.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:48PM
The son of a diseased bitch was not British. He was a fucking camel jockey, sired by a camel, and thrown by a dog. Kindly pull your head out of your ass. Islamic is not British, British is not Islamic. And, fuck a whole bunch of progressivism, liberalism, and whatever else makes you think that a camel jockey's bastard son can be British.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:11PM (9 children)
deporting does no good. Kicking out and locking up citizens does no good. How do you convict somebody of blowing themselves up? How could you possibly find them before they do it? And how do you prove that they were actually going to do it and not just sounding nuts or watching some how to video? (putting out fake how-to videos which blow yourself up during construction is a better idea.)
Stop letting terrorists WIN and they'll stop. If nobody pays attention to them then their whole motive goes away. This is an extreme adult version of a child having tantrums to get it's way. They can't kill enough people with these tactics to win a war but they can herd people with it; elect stupid reactionary politicians who only make them stronger.
Bin Ladden WON. His organization is bigger and more influential now than it ever was plus they franchised it so the other groups don't even use the same branding.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:18PM
That's not what a franchise is...
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:29PM (5 children)
Stop letting terrorists WIN and they'll stop. If nobody pays attention to them then their whole motive goes away. This is an extreme adult version of a child having tantrums to get it's way.
I'm sorry, this one is just stupid. You can't convince the population to just ignore a mass bombing where dozens are killed or injured. What do you expect people to do? "Oh well, our daughter was at the XYZ concert last night and got blown up, but it's no big deal, there's a great show coming TV tonight!" Any functional society is naturally going to react strongly to such events; that's the whole reason terrorism works so well. No one sane is just going to stand by and suggest "let's not bother doing anything differently" when wackos are blowing people up by the dozens or hundreds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:43PM
It is a big deal, but it doesn't justify retribution on anyone besides the perpetrators. Leverage the entire UN military might agaisny any suspected conspirators, watch the assholes crumble. This dream only works if we do NOT persecute entire nations or ethnic / religious groups for the sins of a few.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday May 24 2017, @04:52PM
No, but you can start with the news ignoring every single asshole who threatens the West when he has a bad harem day.
Stop talking about every battle in Iraq/Syria as if the fundamentalists mattered, and disconnect them from the internet faster, including no propaganda videos on bloody Youtube.
Don't let them reach lowlifes in the West, who have a revenge to take on society for both the active discriminations they are subjected to, and their own failings.
Withhold names from official news, and call the bomber "useless disposable asshole #213" instead, including when interviewing his family and friends.
ISIS is a bunch of guys in pickups who took over an area where the majority was their sect-mates being oppressed by the US-approved government. It should have never been more than that, and the Western Media and Internet companies are over 90% responsible for what happened next.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:09PM (1 child)
I agree that you can't just ignore these things. BUT I do think we also need to seriously consider media culpability in encouraging terrorist events. For example, we've seen a number of "terrorist" incidents in the past few years that seem to fall under the "depressed loner" category, e.g., Muslim guy who hasn't really been practicing religion for years and previously didn't seem to care much about Islam at all suddenly goes out and shoots a bunch of people or runs over them with a truck or whatever.
Why? Of COURSE ISIS/ISIL is going to claim credit for all such things, but in a number of cases only flimsy evidence has been uncovered to connect a lot of the origin of attacks back to some evil centralized network. Given the high media profile we give to terrorist events, I think we run a real chance of giving suicidal loners a chance to "give their death meaning" rather than simply offing themselves with a gun in their apartment. If you're already depressed enough and hate the world, why not "go out with a bang" and become a "martyr" for something? Studies show that lone wolf [pbs.org] attacks are on the rise and becoming worse -- these are people who may claim a political motivation, but they're also more likely to have personal grievances and a history of mental illness.
But that doesn't fit the political fear narrative. We don't want to have to contemplate a world with random deranged depressed people killing crowds. So it's easier to attribute the attack to some larger evil identifiable motive or organization... which then paradoxically feeds into the "martyr" rhetoric that could motivate the next depressed loner to suddenly "find religion" rather than just shooting himself in the head.
I don't know what the solution is to this. But I do think there's a potentially dangerous feedback loop.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday May 25 2017, @05:35AM
Wanna slow them down? Make 'em take a pay cut [indiatimes.com].
Like so many things, it really is strictly business. That trail is far more intriguing than all this religious mumbo-jumbo.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday May 24 2017, @08:50PM
I think that's what the Brits don't get, 75 years ago they were getting blown up, they had the right idea about the stiff upper lip and carry on and all that, but they were more or less doing "something" about it, which is different from the current "lay back and enjoy it" victim blaming.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday May 24 2017, @05:17PM (1 child)
> How could you possibly find them before they do it?
Perhaps some sort of search of people as they enter concerts, sporting matches and the like?
(Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Wednesday May 24 2017, @06:45PM
He didn't enter the concert, he was at the foyer (i.e. before the security checks) amongst the parents who were waiting for the their children to leave the concert. The bomb was detonated as people began to leave the concert and to meet up with those who were waiting for them. No matter what you do, there will always be a place where people will wait to meet those leaving the venue that is outside the security cordon.
The only way you can prevent such occurrences is by having random stops in the street and unwarranted searches. You being from the US should realise that this is not exactly what the Founding Fathers wanted to become the norm.