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posted by n1 on Tuesday May 30 2017, @03:35AM   Printer-friendly

An Army veteran, a recent college graduate and a student who once won a poetry contest by condemning prejudice stirred up by the Sept. 11 attacks intervened as a man screamed anti-Muslim insults at two women in Portland, Ore., on Friday.

[...] Two of the men — Taliesin Myrddin Namkai Meche, 23, and Rick Best, 53 — died in the attack, which occurred on a commuter train. The third, Micah David-Cole Fletcher, 21, was treated on Saturday for injuries that the police said were serious but not life-threatening.

Jeremy Christian, 35, of North Portland, Ore., was charged with two counts of aggravated murder in the attack and could face additional charges when he is arraigned on Tuesday. Mr. Christian, who the authorities said had a history of making extremist statements on social media, was ranting at, and talking disparagingly about, the two women, one of whom was wearing a hijab.

Source: The New York Times

President Donald Trump has released his first official statement on the attack in Portland, Oregon, more than 48 hours after the two victims died.

"The violent attacks in Portland on Friday are unacceptable," Mr Trump tweeted. "The victims were standing up to hate and intolerance. Our prayers are w/ them."

Source: The Independent

Portland law enforcement leaders were tightlipped Saturday about the investigation into Friday's attacks that killed two men on a light rail train but a federal official did say it was too early to label the incident a hate crime.

[...] Loren Cannon, special agent in charge of the Portland FBI office, [...]

"It's too early to say whether last night's violence was an act of domestic terrorism or a federal hate crime," he said. "However, in the coming days, the FBI, PPB and the prosecutors will work together to share information, leverage resources and make determinations about future criminal charges."

[...] Leaders of the Muslim community said they were thankful for the men who gave their lives to save the girls from harm. They have raised $50,000 toward a goal of $60,000 to help support the victims and their families.

Source: The Oregonian


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Sulla on Tuesday May 30 2017, @05:57AM (15 children)

    by Sulla (5173) on Tuesday May 30 2017, @05:57AM (#517488) Journal

    In reading this thread I saw a comment about the women themselves being oppressed by wearing burkhas. To me it seems that what muslim are being required to wear is oppressive. What is the deal with feminists not calling islam out at every turn for their oppression of women, instead seeing the greater oppression as white men keeping all of them down. Seems a society that stones women for being free is a greater threat than a society that catcalls at them.

    Really having a hard time understanding this.

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  • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Tuesday May 30 2017, @07:15AM

    by butthurt (6141) on Tuesday May 30 2017, @07:15AM (#517510) Journal

    > Seems a society that stones women for being free is a greater threat than a society that catcalls at them.

    Feminist women within the former type of society might be reticent. Taking Saudi Arabia as an example of such a society, there are external critics of the way women are treated there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Saudi_Arabia#Foreign_views [wikipedia.org]
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/07/saudi-arabia-s-feminist-revolution-has-begun.html [thedailybeast.com]
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/03/swedens-feminist-foreign-minister-has-dared-to-tell-the-truth-about-saudi-arabia-what-happens-now-concerns-us-all/ [spectator.co.uk]

    At least one Saudi activist was arrested in Saudi Arabia. From a 2014 story:

    Souad al-Shammary has been detained at a prison in Jeddah since 28 October after being summoned for interrogation, according to a family friend.

    Shammary is a co-founder of the Saudi Liberals forum and was one of the first women to defend legal cases in court. She has played a prominent role in a campaign for women to be allowed the right to drive and regularly appears in the media to debate feminist issues.

    [...]

    Religious conservatives, opposed to Shammary’s activism, are said to have filed a complaint that referred to her “calls for women’s liberation”; “demanding the separation of society from religion”; and “demanding the end of male guardianship over women”.

    -- http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-arabias-first-female-lawyer-detained-accused-insulting-islam-219350761 [middleeasteye.net]

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @07:31AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @07:31AM (#517514)

    In my opinion everybody feminists, alt right, democrats, socialists, republicans, libertarians, anarchists, and so on are all seeing the same problem. Society isn't doing so hot right now. We're currently living through what will likely be the first generation to ever end up poorer than their parent's generation. Workers are being treated like cattle more than valued employees, our politicians seem more corrupt and out of touch than ever (for the first time more than 50% of congress are millionaires) and companies are coercively exploiting monopolies while our "representatives" in congress see all this and seemingly could not care less if they tried.

    Looking at the source of problems is difficult but blaming groups of people is easy. Feminists blame men, alt right blame jews, democrats blame non-minorities, socialists blame capitalists, republicans blame poor people, libertarians and anarchists blame government, etc. So you end up with strange bedfellows. Islam like you mentioned is about as anti-feminist as possible, yet feminists embrace them since they see them as an ally against the establishment of the patriarchy. The republican party is mostly used as a 'bad copy' to pass legislation and bills which are detrimental to the interests of the poor and middle class, yet they supported primarily by the poor and middle class. The problem is that people don't really let logic get in the way of their biases. It's all just in-group, out-group hive (or mob) mentality.

    People are lazy. Looking for actual problems, let alone solutions, is very difficult. Pointing your finger and blaming somebody else is easy.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @07:47AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @07:47AM (#517518)

      We're currently living through what will likely be the first generation to ever end up poorer than their parent's generation.

      Second generation for my family. My grandfather was a dentist, my mother a librarian, I repair laptops.

  • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @08:30AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @08:30AM (#517535)

    >In reading this thread I saw a comment about the women themselves being oppressed by wearing burkhas. To me it seems that what muslim are being required to wear is oppressive.

    do you feel western girls are oppressed because they wear skirts? Some women do I am sure (some of the feminist you refer to), but the majority is quite happy to wear them and no, they do not wear it for you to stare at legs or anything, they wear it because they like it and because it makes them fit (beautifully) in their community or society. Society demands a lot of "proper" behavior from us, some of it is silly (I hate ties) but most people feel rather comfortable with it.

    One of the most basic principles of a free society is that one should not try to enforce your opinions and moral on other people's behavior. Even when you feel they have been brainwashed to behave like that (we all are, to some extend). There are limits to this of course (your stoning example), but be aware that some feel the death penalty in the US is pretty close to barbarism as well.

    • (Score: 2) by unauthorized on Tuesday May 30 2017, @03:05PM

      by unauthorized (3776) on Tuesday May 30 2017, @03:05PM (#517675)

      At the age of nine, I was fitted with my first “hijab” which I was required to wear now. I hated it instantly. I hated it when my mom started wearing it, and I especially hated it now that I was expected to wear it. Gone were all my clothes, as now I was cover every inch of my body but my face and hands. This was the moment that final nail was hammered into the coffin of my childhood.

      I felt so awkward, so uncomfortable, so hot, in those stupid over-sized clothes. The best way to describe the feeling is if you imagine that you are a goth. Imagine you love black clothes and dark makeup. Now imagine that someone came along and forced you to wear a pink tutu, forced your hair into frail ringlets, and forced your feet into delicate ballet slippers. If you can imagine how suffocating that would be, you can begin to understand how I felt as I wore that shit every day.

      (snip)

      Back home again, at the Muslim School, all the girls wore hijab too. And they all hated it as much as I did. It’s true that misery loves company. The fact that we were all forced to wear that shit on our head together, offered us all comfort. We all wore it and shared in our mutual disdain for it. It brought us closer together to be enduring that with each other.

      And the cherry on top:

      Since the Muslim School only went to grade seven, as the boys were excited about starting high school, the girls were terrified of what would become of them. The summer before high school was notoriously the time when girls disappeared. It was the perfect time to send them back home unnoticed.

      In the extreme cases, it was a popular time for so-called ‘honour killings’ to take place. They are usually perpetrated in response to a girl being ‘too westernized’.

      These are extracts [tumblr.com] from the book "Confessions of an ExMuslim" by Canadian-born ex-Muslim Yasmine Mohammed [confessionsofanexmuslim.com]. Emphasis mine.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Magic Oddball on Tuesday May 30 2017, @09:50AM (1 child)

    by Magic Oddball (3847) on Tuesday May 30 2017, @09:50AM (#517565) Journal

    The girls in this case weren't wearing burkhas, which cover the entire body. They were wearing hijabs (headscarves), most likely (based on pics I've seen of Muslim teen fashion in the US & UK) similar to the ones that were popular with American women in the 1960s.

    Most young Muslim women in the West who are wearing headscarves, burkinis, etc. do so from the exact same sense of religious modesty & local fashion that drives a lot of young conservative Christian/Catholic women to avoid wearing clothes that reveal more than they were taught is acceptable.

    As for feminists... You're just hearing the same highly vocal minority that dominate any controversial issue: people who are still in the young-adult stage where people tend to focus on a few issues, become very easily outraged/critical over them, feel their protests are illogically important, and are blind (or lack the experience) to see contradictions in their own lives. Most of the ones you're noticing aren't even primarily feminists — as you pointed out, they're more focused on race relations, with women from a particular group sometimes just serving as a handy example when useful. *shrug*

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 31 2017, @06:05AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 31 2017, @06:05AM (#518135)

      You're just hearing the same highly vocal minority that dominate any controversial issue

      The problem is that law makers, media and HR departments all listen and act on these extremists.

  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday May 30 2017, @10:43AM (1 child)

    by Bot (3902) on Tuesday May 30 2017, @10:43AM (#517578) Journal

    Obviously this wave of feminism has other agendas than the declared ones. Cultural marxism is likely, but itself probably only another layer for other agendas again.
    It is like "let's people have Islam related problems getting bigger until we can enforce a ban on all religion and a dictatorship" or something. Weimar republic 2.0.

    If you want a more natural perspective: "To delude oneself into thinking that an Good Islam and a Bad Islam exist, that is, not understanding that one Islam exists... is against Reason" (Oriana Fallaci).
    Natural does not mean 100% accurate, of course.

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    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @01:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @01:43PM (#517625)

      > "To delude oneself into thinking that an Good Islam and a Bad Islam exist, that is, not understanding that one Islam exists... is against Reason"

      What a meaningless thing to say.
      Its the view of an outsider who is so ignorant of what they are observing they can't distinguish any details.
      Its the cultural version of "they all the look the same to me."

      "To delude oneself into thinking that an Good America and a Bad America exist, that is, not understanding that one America exists... is against Reason"

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @01:58PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @01:58PM (#517632)

    > What is the deal with feminists not calling islam out at every turn for their oppression of women,

    In a free country, people are free to wear whatever they want. It would be hypocritical for people who support women's rights to tell women that they don't have the right to choose their own clothing.

    Modern feminists regularly call out countries that do force a dress code on women.

    And since you care so much about oppressed muslim women, surely that means you are in favor of allowing female refugees from countries where strict islamic laws force women to wear burkas and worse. Right?

    You wouldn't just be using them as a cudgel to beat on muslims. Right? That would be totally hypocritcal, wouldn't it? And you aren't a hypocrite at all, right?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @05:32PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @05:32PM (#517782)

      The photos of refugees from Muslim-centric countries I've seen show overwhelming numbers of young males. Where are the places allowing in female victims and keeping out military-age males?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @05:35PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2017, @05:35PM (#517785)
        • (Score: 2) by Sulla on Wednesday May 31 2017, @01:31AM (1 child)

          by Sulla (5173) on Wednesday May 31 2017, @01:31AM (#518021) Journal

          Thats about as bad as using Brietbart or The Blaze when trying to prove a point.

          I suspect that the boats entering into "european" waters are probably racist/sexist because the majority of the people you see on them are men. Maybe its just my eyes that are racist/sexist for not showing me the reality as I am supposed to see it.

          --
          Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 31 2017, @03:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 31 2017, @03:23AM (#518068)

            Thats about as bad as using Brietbart or The Blaze when trying to prove a point.

            How fucked in the head do you have to be think politifact is the equivalent of breitbart?
            Seriously, what alt-reality do you exist in where that is even remotely true?

            Meanwhile your only counter evidence is what you "suspect."
            Figures, doesn't it? UNHCR numbers on one hand, your bigotted suspicions on the other hand. Who can say which is more accurate?
            JFC you are such a sad fucking sack.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 31 2017, @06:07AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 31 2017, @06:07AM (#518136)

          And almost nine out of ten migrants arriving in western countries are young males. Almost like an army..