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posted by takyon on Sunday June 18 2017, @07:57PM   Printer-friendly
from the do-they-beg-for-taxes dept.

Armed SAS troops have reportedly been deployed to key positions in busy streets across the UK, with hopes that the tactic will have soldiers poised for any unfolding terror attacks.

One source told The Mirror: "The view is there are so many homeless people out there undercover operators will remain safe and anonymous.

[...] Another source claimed to the paper that the operation had been ongoing for "some time", with soldiers stationed around transport hubs and shopping centres.

Soldiers from the Counter Revolutionary Warfare Wing have reportedly been drafted for the operation.

Source: The Sun


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by looorg on Sunday June 18 2017, @08:33PM (17 children)

    by looorg (578) on Sunday June 18 2017, @08:33PM (#527576)

    This is a very odd story, if true. One wonders in either case why the media would even write about it.

    The SAS is quite small, best Internet guess around 1200-2000 people and they won't all be doing this, so it probably ain't large enough to field any kind of beggar-army to cover all metropolitan hotspots in Britain even if they wanted to for some extended period of time. It would have to be some very specific intelligence behind that. There will be a lot more potential targets then that if you count train stations, shopping centers, tourist attractions etc. There just won't be enough troopers if they are also going to perform all their normal duties and be active in every other military hotspot around the globe hunting for terrorists with their "kill lists" [1]. So this either have to be a very limited operation or they are hoping for some kind of panopticon effect -- you never know when you are being watched. This could be some weird ass psyops.

    One does wonder what the potential negative aspects of it will be. Will people now assume that there are hidden SAS operatives hiding behind every beggar? A false sense of security for the public. Is the next ISIS target going to be killing beggars in metropolitan areas of Britain in hope of them finding an SAS operative to kill? Just waiting for some idiots to start kidnapping homeless people to make homegrown beheading videos. As a scare-tactic this probably won't work on terrorists -- if the last couple of attacks are any indicator of how things goes then no terrorists are coming out alive. So the threat of being interrupted by some special forces operatives probably isn't real enough to have any kind of deterrence effect.

    I guess the sad part is that there are a lot of x-military personal on the streets as beggars already, they just are not there as part of some operation. They are there cause they are actual beggars, with physical and mental issues.

    [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/sas-special-forces-hit-list-iraq-syria-isis-terrorist-attacks-drones-a7400756.html [independent.co.uk]

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  • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday June 18 2017, @09:14PM

    by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Sunday June 18 2017, @09:14PM (#527593)

    Is the next ISIS target going to be killing beggars in metropolitan areas of Britain in hope of them finding an SAS operative to kill?

    It's a secret plan to get ISIS to expose themselves by attacking the homeless while at the same time reducing the number of homeless...

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ledow on Sunday June 18 2017, @10:25PM (12 children)

    by ledow (5567) on Sunday June 18 2017, @10:25PM (#527624) Homepage

    It's bullshit.

    And if it's not, I'm *really* pissed that someone knows about it enough to publish in a national paper, and The fucking Mirror at that (tabloid trash. For non-UK people - the biggest sign that this story is just bollocks is that it's only in The Sun, The Mirror or The Daily Mail).

    Why the hell would anyone even know about this if it were true? Depending on how they found it, it's either publicly-available knowledge or it means that anyone casing a location would also know it within minutes.

    I would hope that the SAS (which are an air-service, people, even if they do have particular roles related to terrorism sometimes - it's the equivalent of saying the Navy SEALs are doing this) are doing something much more productive with their time than hanging out at random Tube stations hoping to shoot the guy with a bomb before he explodes it.

    And, I'm sorry, there are much better people to be doing this - with permission to carry arms, local knowledge, who can be drafted in from all over the country, are easier to deploy without arousing suspicion, and capable of the same kind of intelligence gathering / operation in this kind of instance as a random special forces guy. They're called police. Whose time is much less valuable than an elite unit.

    Wrong people for the wrong kind of job, but it sounds "cool" to idiots if it looks like you might know what the SAS are doing...

    If you do, I very much suspect the SAS are no longer an elite special forces unit. More likely they are active in quite predictable warzones and/or carrying out much more important missions. Wouldn't even be surprised if they were all over Russia or even the US at the moment. But would be INCREDIBLY surprised if anyone else knew that to any level of precision.

    • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Sunday June 18 2017, @11:12PM (1 child)

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Sunday June 18 2017, @11:12PM (#527629)

      I would hope that the SAS (which are an air-service, people...

      No, no they're not, as the first part of the Wiki article shows. [wikipedia.org]
       

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday June 19 2017, @08:15AM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday June 19 2017, @08:15AM (#527807) Homepage
        > a British disinformation campaign, trying to deceive the Axis into thinking there was a paratrooper regiment

        > Its first mission, in November 1941, was a parachute drop

        The ultimate in disinformation - tell the truth, noone expects that!
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Sunday June 18 2017, @11:31PM (1 child)

      by butthurt (6141) on Sunday June 18 2017, @11:31PM (#527635) Journal

      The Independent found the story credible enough to mention, without providing its own independent sources.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-special-forces-homeless-people-road-sweepers-disguises-uk-cities-deploy-terror-threat-a7791221.html [independent.co.uk]

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday June 19 2017, @08:22AM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday June 19 2017, @08:22AM (#527810) Homepage
        "Armed special forces troops disguised as beggars and road sweepers have been deployed at key locations in London and other cities, they Daily Mirror reported."

        A story they consider so important they (a) didn't investigate the claim themselves; and (b) didn't even get it proof-read?
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 18 2017, @11:46PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 18 2017, @11:46PM (#527639)

      posting anon for obvious reasons

      I served in the Parachute Regiment starting in 1987. I went on to pass selection for a unit called 14 Intelligence Company(AKA The Det).

      We did all the information gathering clouding photographic(still, video and audio) for the SAS to then go and take action on.

      My Regiment supplies, both then and now, by far the most amount of soldiers to the SAS. Not me though, 14 Int which thgen became the Special Reconnaissance Regiment was plenty enough action for me.

      I would hope that the SAS (which are an air-service, people, even if they do have particular roles related to terrorism sometimes - it's the equivalent of saying the Navy SEALs are doing this)

      I served with many SAS soldiers and their roles are many. This is something the SAS are quite suited to and have done similar roles in the past.

      The SAS are ARMY .. soldiers and the "Air" applies to them the way "Airborne" applied to me and the rest of my Regiment and they also started life as an Army Commando unit. Also the SAS.. I'd put them up against the Seals 5 times a day, every day of the week and 40 times on Sunday.

      And yes I say that from having served , both on exercise and in live theatres of warfare with seals.

      As for the Sun, Mirror etc... well if you used them for toilet roll, more shit would come off the paper than your arse however the Independent(a quality broadsheet) also reports on it HERE [independent.co.uk] quoting the Mirror's and it's article is 2 days old and comes up top of the google search

      And, I'm sorry, there are much better people to be doing this - with permission to carry arms, local knowledge, who can be drafted in from all over the country, are easier to deploy without arousing suspicion, and capable of the same kind of intelligence gathering / operation in this kind of instance as a random special forces guy. They're called police. Whose time is much less valuable than an elite unit.

      Wow.. you do realise that.....The SAS are perfect for this role, also there's rather a lot more than you think.. there's 21 reserve (Artists Rifles - an old historical titles they ad but really they were outstanding forgers and outstanding soldiers), 22 who you will have heard of as it's the main unit and of course 23 SAS Reserves(based in Birmingham but has little satellite locations all round the UK. The SAS are also being given an extra 1500 men.. which will happen when the poor fuckjers can pass the course and I can tell you I have seen some hard as fuck, solid soldiers get minced by that course and come back somewhat more humble than they were before going on selection.

      to sum up.. again the SAS are perfect for this role and have done it many times in many locations and much more besides while I served in direct support of their roles on a few those occasions... however it is a general rule of thumb that an active clandestine.operation would not be announced. I joined in 87(first three of my number 247(which can date entry ) and got out in 1999 as a Sgt(it's a lot harder in the British army than the yank army to get promoted, certainly in my day for sure. The Sceptic Tanks (yanks) get badges of rank thrown at them all over the place and having served alongside in support of the SAS in a fair few varying ways but mostly observational capability I can safely say what I have said confident that what I say is all present and correct on the "been there, done that, served alongside the regularly" stakes

      want specifics?? dial 0800 get fucked. while my reserve service is now done, I also know that the Official secrets act most certainly isn't in regards to duties perfomed. broad strokes.. yeah.. easy but specifics.. nah.. can't help you

      • (Score: 2) by Kell on Monday June 19 2017, @12:48AM

        by Kell (292) on Monday June 19 2017, @12:48AM (#527663)

        You sound like an interesting person to share a pint with. Good stuff.

        --
        Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 19 2017, @05:32AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 19 2017, @05:32AM (#527746)

        The SAS are also being given an extra 1500 men.. which will happen when the poor fuckjers can pass the course and I can tell you I have seen some hard as fuck, solid soldiers get minced by that course and come back somewhat more humble than they were before going on selection.

        That's the point, you can't just magically give them an extra 1500 men..

        If, as they say, less that 10% of the current candidates (and they're already a 'pre-filtered' group) pass, then to get this figure you'll have to put well over 15,000 through the course, now, as there's only between 70,000-113,100 soldiers currently in the forces one wonders how this'll pan out.

        Of course, the could 'lower the bar'....somehow, I think not.

        ..The Sceptic Tanks (yanks) get badges of rank thrown at them all over the place..

        Ah, an RE colleague once referred to such things ('Operational' USian military decorations and the suchlike) as 'Muttley medals'..

        As for the Sun, Mirror etc... well if you used them for toilet roll, more shit would come off the paper than your arse..

        I don't know why I've never heard that one before, but thank you for it, made my morning...

        • (Score: 1) by Pax on Monday June 19 2017, @01:39PM

          by Pax (5056) on Monday June 19 2017, @01:39PM (#527893)

          As for the Sun, Mirror etc... well if you used them for toilet roll, more shit would come off the paper than your arse..

          I don't know why I've never heard that one before, but than

          maybe you have never run out of toilet roll!

      • (Score: 2) by turgid on Monday June 19 2017, @07:11PM

        by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 19 2017, @07:11PM (#528090) Journal

        Are you the session who played lead for Ritchie Blackmore on Smoke on the water? :-)

        I played session for Rick Wakeman on all his best stuff.

    • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday June 19 2017, @10:19AM (1 child)

      by TheRaven (270) on Monday June 19 2017, @10:19AM (#527837) Journal

      I would hope that the SAS (which are an air-service, people, even if they do have particular roles related to terrorism sometimes - it's the equivalent of saying the Navy SEALs are doing this)

      Wouldn't the SBS be the equivalent of the Navy SEALs?

      --
      sudo mod me up
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 19 2017, @02:21PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 19 2017, @02:21PM (#527913)

        Wouldn't the SBS be the equivalent of the Navy SEALs?

        Yes bud, that would be more correct and much as it pains me to say this being an Ex-Parachute Regiment man and compliment the bootnecks(marines), I reckon the Special boat Section would outperform the Seals

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday June 19 2017, @02:41PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Monday June 19 2017, @02:41PM (#527922)

      Sounds like they'd be better off abandoning the idea now, since everybody knows about it. Then act like they're not using reverse psychology, the undercover guys are just *really good.*

      I have a hard time imagining that the actual homeless people wouldn't immediately figure out who they were and not want to hang around with them, either.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 19 2017, @04:22AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 19 2017, @04:22AM (#527724)

    This is a very odd story, if true. One wonders in either case why the media would even write about it.

    Indeed, 'Let's support our brave troops by blabbing about their undercover ops...' doesn't quite ring true..

    The SAS is quite small, best Internet guess around 1200-2000 people and they won't all be doing this, so it probably ain't large enough to field any kind of beggar-army to cover all metropolitan hotspots in Britain even if they wanted to for some extended period of time.

    The oft-quoted figure is 400-600, I suppose that's currently active, I'd be surprised given their nature that the number would be much higher than that, or publicly revealed. As for 'all metropolitan hotspots in Britain', they'll only be hanging around 'high value' targets, so London & our beloved 'great and good'..

    Is the next ISIS target going to be killing beggars in metropolitan areas of Britain in hope of them finding an SAS operative to kill? Just waiting for some idiots to start kidnapping homeless people to make homegrown beheading videos.

    Yes, you do wonder why they've painted such a large target on the backs of such a vulnerable group...

    As a scare-tactic this probably won't work on terrorists -- if the last couple of attacks are any indicator of how things goes then no terrorists are coming out alive. So the threat of being interrupted by some special forces operatives probably isn't real enough to have any kind of deterrence effect.

    Seeing as they're going to die in glorious jihad (choice of houris. sherbet etc. etc. ) there is no 'scare-tactic' value in announcing another way of killing them, you want to scare them? arrange to keep them alive in an immobile state for the rest of their lives (no possibility of prayer etc. etc. etc..).
    Termination with extreme prejudice doesn't have to be quick.

    I guess the sad part is that there are a lot of x-military personal on the streets as beggars already, they just are not there as part of some operation. They are there cause they are actual beggars, with physical and mental issues.

    Indeed, far too many, sure, TPTB engage in the occasional 'hand wringing exercise' about this but you get the impression that they're acceptable casualties of a military system they don't want to change.

    Quoted out of sequence here..

    So this either have to be a very limited operation or they are hoping for some kind of panopticon effect -- you never know when you are being watched. This could be some weird ass psyops.

    As we're constantly told, we already live in the CCTV capital of the world (actually, we don't, but there are quite a number of them in the major metropolitan areas), you already 'never know when you are being watched', and, as has sadly been shown, the only fucking use these things (CCTV cameras) are good for in terrorist incidents is providing the retrospective requisitely fuzzy footage of the bastards as they set out to do whatever they've planned to do, of course, I do feel that I have to point out that as we're told the numbers but never the details about any of their claimed 'operational successes' for 'operational security' reasons, what do I know?

  • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday June 19 2017, @08:29AM (1 child)

    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday June 19 2017, @08:29AM (#527812) Homepage
    > Is the next ISIS target going to be killing beggars in metropolitan areas of Britain in hope of them finding an SAS operative to kill? Just waiting for some idiots to start kidnapping homeless people to make homegrown beheading videos.

    That I doubt, it really wouldn't be good for their public image.
    --
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 2) by looorg on Monday June 19 2017, @03:12PM

      by looorg (578) on Monday June 19 2017, @03:12PM (#527951)

      That I doubt, it really wouldn't be good for their public image.

      Cause their public image now is so swell? Blowing up little kids, cutting the throats of infidels, tossing gay people from roofs, burning people alive ... Killing a beggar would somehow be crossing the line?