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posted by martyb on Wednesday June 21 2017, @09:20AM   Printer-friendly
from the More-of-a-passenger-than-a-driver dept.

The first fatality involving Tesla's Autopilot feature led to questions over the safety of the semi-autonomous system last year, but a report published by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) concludes that Elon Musk's company was not at fault. While the cause of the crash has still not been determined, the 538-page report states that driver Joshua Brown had his hands off the wheel of the Tesla Model S "for the vast majority of the trip." This was despite receiving seven visual warnings, six of which also sounded a chime, to maintain control during the 37-minute journey.

GreenCar Reports states:

The truck driver involved in the crash also claimed Brown was watching a movie at the time of impact—an aftermarket DVD player was found among the wreckage.

On the other hand, Ars Technica reports otherwise:

In the latest regulatory documents on the incident, the National Traffic Safety Board disputed some accounts that Brown was watching a Harry Potter movie during the crash last year. The board said it found several electronic devices, but there was no evidence that they were being operated during the accident.

Ars elaborates on the amount of time that the driver had his hands on the wheel:

Tesla's autopilot mode allows a vehicle to maintain the speed of traffic, and an auto-steer function is designed to help keep the Tesla inside its lane. The board said the Tesla alerted the driver seven times with a visual of "Hands Required Not Detected." The authorities said the motorist, a former Navy Seal, had his hands on the wheel for 25 seconds during the 37 minutes of the trip when they should have been placed on the steering wheel. That's according to "system performance data" from Tesla, the government said.


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Wednesday June 21 2017, @09:51AM (17 children)

    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday June 21 2017, @09:51AM (#528938) Homepage
    And journos won't stop calling it that until long after Tesla themselves stop calling it that:
    http://www.tesla.com/presskit/autopilot

    Tesla are at least guilty of giving mixed messages in their marketting, even if the actual technology is faultless. (Handy reminder - if you're in marketting - kill yourself.)
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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Rivenaleem on Wednesday June 21 2017, @10:13AM (8 children)

    by Rivenaleem (3400) on Wednesday June 21 2017, @10:13AM (#528941)

    How would you describe what Airline Pilots do while the Autopilot is on? Do you think they sit about watching movies? I think it is not so much Tesla's use of the word, but what the average person thinks Autopilot is used for in other industries.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 21 2017, @11:49AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 21 2017, @11:49AM (#528960)

      From what you're saying I assume they're not watching movies.
      I promise I'm not trolling, but what is it exactly that they do?
      My assumption has always been that they hang around in the cockpit talking to the copilot, and check the various readings every few minutes.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday June 21 2017, @02:16PM

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Wednesday June 21 2017, @02:16PM (#529026) Journal

      And this would be relevant if Tesla were marketing their cars to airline pilots with the technical knowledge of what aircraft "autopilot" systems are capable of and not capable of.

      Tesla isn't marketing exclusively to airline pilots. And the common use of the term "autopilot" is clear -- it's so clear that it has become an idiom. When you say you did something "on autopilot," it does NOT imply you were closing monitoring what was going on, ready to be fully engaged at any moment.

      In fact, I'd guess it's likely that Tesla appropriated the term BECAUSE it wanted to play off popular perception. It wanted to be thought of as ahead of the other car companies in developing autonomous vehicles. I'd bet that was part of the marketing strategy -- and they figured, "Oh, we'll explain all the caveats later." Within days of Tesla releasing the feature, you had folks doing stupid stuff and posting videos of hopping in the back seat or whatever while "autopilot" was on.

      Do you seriously think that would have happened as much had they just called the feature "enhanced cruise control" or something? It's not Tesla's fault that the average person doesn't know how "autopilot" systems function in real airplanes. It IS Tesla's fault when their marketing department either intentionally or unintentionally uses a name that is likely to cause the average person to misunderstand what the technology is. That's a marketing failure.

      Does that mean they're directly responsible for some idiot who ignored all the warnings? Of course not. But they should realize that their terminology did and is continuing to cause misperceptions, likely resulting in greater amounts of unsafe driving.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by vux984 on Wednesday June 21 2017, @04:26PM (1 child)

      by vux984 (5045) on Wednesday June 21 2017, @04:26PM (#529086)

      How would you describe what Airline Pilots do while the Autopilot is on?

      There aren't really a lot of good everyday analogies. Its sort of like cooking a meal; where flying a plane is like making a sauce. You do a bunch of prep at the beginning and end, and there is a long period in the middle where you just stir occasionally, make sure it doesn't get to hot, or too thick, etc, etc. And while its doing that, you 'the pilot' have a ton of other responsibilities... make a salad, prepare other dishes, wipe down the counters, empty the dishwasher, etc... so even though you aren't continually engaged with the sauce, you aren't leaving the kitchen, and there is lots for you to do. That's what an airline pilot's job is; they have a bunch of other real admin work, as well as busywork while they 'keep an eye on the sauce'. They also have a copilot.

      And a plane on autopilot is like sauce on a stove; you just need to be in the kitchen keeping an eye on it and occasionally stirring it. You need to be there, and able to get involved if necessary, but you DON'T need to stand there, for hours on end, staring into the sauce, spoon at the ready.

      When driving a car with 'so-called' auto-pilot however, that IS what you are supposed to do. You are supposed to sit there, hands on the wheel, attention focussed on the road ahead, ready to be the driver at a seconds notice, the entire time. Can you imagine cooking a turkey for 8 hours, staring into the oven window, baster in one hand, the other hand on the oven door handle - at the ready, the entire time straight, ready to spring into action. That's how vehicle autopilots work. And that's ridiculous. Airline pilot work is nothing like that.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:19AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:19AM (#529429)

        Airline pilot work is nothing like that.

        A big part of that is that "surprise truck" gives you a couple of seconds warning if you're lucky, where as "surprise mountain" tends to give a much longer warning. And "surprise airplane" really shouldn't happen unless all four pilots are asleep and someone messed up the separation big time.

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday June 22 2017, @07:46AM (2 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday June 22 2017, @07:46AM (#529409) Homepage
      I presume they, for a start, take their hands off the controls and leave their seats to have a cup of tea and a chat with the other crew. I'm sure they do a hundred other things that Tesla drivers really shouldn't be doing too, but those are surely enough to prove that "Tesla autopilot" != "autopilot".
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:20AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:20AM (#529419)

        I presume they, for a start, take their hands off the controls and leave their seats to have a cup of tea and a chat with the other crew.

        There are co-pilots. Don't forget that. If both pilot and co-pilot leave their seats they can get in big trouble.

        A common practice is if one of them leaves the cockpit (toilet etc) a flight attendant has to enter the cockpit. Why? Just in case something happens to the pilot in the cockpit. The flight attendant then would have to notify the pilot and open the cockpit door. Remember nowadays it's a bit harder to open the cockpit door from passenger side.

        So yeah, with Tesla's or a airliner's autopilot the pilot/driver can go take a nap or leave the seat. IF there's a co-pilot around to control stuff.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:24AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:24AM (#529432)

          They should have their own toilet inside the bathroom and no door to the passenger cabin. Locking the door from the pilots side still means that it CAN be opened.

          "Open the cockpit door. One passenger will be executed every minute, until the door is opened or we run out of passengers. Oh, and just in case we do run out of passengers, we still have our suicide vests".

          What kind of psychopath would the pilot need to be to ignore passengers dying simply because he refuses to open the door?

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by fustakrakich on Wednesday June 21 2017, @11:31AM (6 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday June 21 2017, @11:31AM (#528956) Journal

    Well, it wasn't exactly 'faultless'. The car could have slowed down and/or stopped when the driver didn't heed the warnings.

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Wednesday June 21 2017, @03:30PM (3 children)

      by wonkey_monkey (279) on Wednesday June 21 2017, @03:30PM (#529057) Homepage

      That's far more dangerous than simply continuing to drive. Not, perhaps, as dangerous as driving into a truck, but we don't know exactly why that happened yet.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by vux984 on Wednesday June 21 2017, @03:50PM (1 child)

        by vux984 (5045) on Wednesday June 21 2017, @03:50PM (#529064)

        That's far more dangerous than simply continuing to drive.

        Nope. Suppose the driver has fallen asleep.

        That's not to say the car should pull over on a bridge or something, but common sense dictates it pull over as soon as it is somewhere safe. If it can't figure that out, its not ready to drive.

        • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:04PM

          by wonkey_monkey (279) on Thursday June 22 2017, @09:04PM (#529668) Homepage

          Nope. Suppose the driver has fallen asleep.

          So what if he has? That's not a situation the technology, in its current state, is designed to cope with (although it could potentially still cope with it better, by continuing to drive within lane markings and keeping safe distances from other vehicles, than a dumb car can).

          If it can't figure that out, its not ready to drive.

          No, it's just not ready to have its driver fall asleep at the wheel, and/or ignore all the warnings telling them they're not using the system as safety and common sense dictates.

          --
          systemd is Roko's Basilisk
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 21 2017, @07:25PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 21 2017, @07:25PM (#529158)

        Nonsense. If a car's cruise control fails (used to have a car with a wonky cruise control myself), the vehicle comes to a stop if the driver's foot isn't on the pedal.

        Everybody is taking this market babble "autopilot" and assuming that means "autonomous." Why the ever living fuck can't Tesla just give a mea culpa and admit that their marketing gave the wrong impression or what the fuck ever however weasel lawyers would put it and STOP FUCKING CALLING IT AUTOPILOT. IT'S ENHANCED FUCKING CRUISE FUCKING CONTROL WITH FUCKING LANE FUCKING ASSIST! NOTHING MORE! Fuck!

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday June 22 2017, @07:46AM (1 child)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday June 22 2017, @07:46AM (#529410) Homepage
      But I never said it was faultless.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:41AM

    by sjames (2882) on Thursday June 22 2017, @08:41AM (#529424) Journal

    Perhaps assisted driving would better express the intended level of human involvement. If people keep trusting it too far, we can try "Like Totally assisted to the max" to bump trust down a bit.