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America leads the world when it comes to access to higher education. But when it comes to health, environmental protection, and fighting discrimination, it trails many other developed countries, according to the Social Progress Imperative, a U.S.-based nonprofit.
The results of the group's annual survey, which ranks nations based on 50 metrics, call to mind other reviews of national well-being, such as the World Happiness Report released in March, which was led by Norway, Denmark, and Iceland, or September's Lancet study on sustainable development. In that one, Iceland, Singapore, Sweden, and the U.S. took spots 1, 2, 3, and 28—respectively.
The Social Progress Index released this week is compiled from social and environmental data that come as close as possible to revealing how people live. "We want to measure a country's health and wellness achieved, not how much effort is expended, nor how much the country spends on healthcare," the report states. Scandinavia walked away with the top four of 128 slots. Denmark scored the highest. America came in at 18.
The Social Progress Index gives the US poor marks. America may, however, still lead the world in funny cat videos.
(Score: 1, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @01:07AM (130 children)
I find it utterly unfathomable that a leftist organization dislikes the US. This has to be a first.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Lagg on Friday June 23 2017, @01:25AM
Yeah well you're a blefuscudian
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @01:44AM
They're not wrong though. This country fails to live up to most of its promises for most of its people and I don't see it getting better any time soon. You're committing a genetic fallacy here.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jelizondo on Friday June 23 2017, @01:56AM (22 children)
I’ll nominate you as CEO of a major U.S. airline (using U.S. to avoid confusion with the company called American Airlines) and see if you can make any of the majors appear in the first fucking 10 best airlines of the world.
You know the Wright brothers right? How the airplane and airplane industry was basically invented on the U.S. but nowadays anyone can eat our lunch? Fucking leftist CEO’s of U.S. Airlines I tell you!
See the latest Skytrax awards [worldairlineawards.com]. Even by region [worldairlineawards.com], in North America number one is Air Canada!
Don’t tell me it’s all about government regulations, they were deregulated [aviationweek.com] by Jimmy Carter, a fucking Democrat!
The U.S. is declining because rich people decided to game the system and make it better for themselves and to hell with everyone else. They killed (or are killing) the American Dream. And the people (those not on the 1%) are happy because they think they are numero uno, while drowning in booze and opioids.
Going to hell in a hand basket is more like it, not a "leftist" conspiracy
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday June 23 2017, @03:57AM
The American Dream is long dead and buried. But that doesn't stop them, they are working now on killing the American Nightmare too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Interesting) by khallow on Friday June 23 2017, @04:15AM (16 children)
Why would I want to do that? Not every airline specializes in making some "best" list. A huge part of this problem is using bad metrics. For example, why would we want to improve environmental regulations or fight discrimination even harder? Haven't those turds been polished enough by now? Similarly, high quality airlines are just not that desirable to passengers (who have long had the ability to spend more for quality).
It is in large part due to government regulations with, for example, gate-based oligopolies, labor union rent seeking, and the federal government takeover of most large airports after 9/11.
Who again created the system that is being gamed? Turns out there were strings attached to all those social benefits that voters voted themselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @10:43PM (1 child)
All the benefits that voters voted for themselves? My my you are extra crazy today. Social benefits have been slashed repeatedly since the 70s and they have not come back. Who created the system? Rich people with power, straight up bribing politicians, then pushing through legislation to legitimize the corruption! Corporations getting government handouts, bailouts, and money that disappears with no benefit to the public.
You cray cray khallow, possibly just a well read idiot.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @03:55AM
I know that the headlines make you think that.
Usually you see something like:
GOP CONGRESS EATS KITTEN SOULS AND PUTS ORPHANS ON STREET
Very scary stuff!
Then you read the fine print and find out a) that no such thing was done b) they're deficit financing all sorts of programmes that turn into jobs for their districts c) whatever they actually did vote for will create another 2,000 make-work jobs in the federal bureaucracy.
Look at the actual federal budget for various social programmes, and you'll see that despite SCARY HEADLINE HORROR DRAMA the benefits expenditure has been climbing more than dipping.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:49AM (13 children)
Voters didn't vote themselves all those social benefits directly... they came about under FDR because, to paraphrase Jim Morrison, the whole shithouse was going up in flames. If FDR hadn't instituted social security, public works programs, and all the other "pork," the rich weren't going to have anything worth buying in the US.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:07AM
That's a common misconception.
Actual studies after the fact reflect that FDR did more to screw up recovery than create it. Things stabilised - but they do so after shocks anyway. His consistent policy of determined restraint of trade kept things hidebound until he got lucky, and WWII gave the economy a kick in the pants. His playing footsie with (some) unions managed to ossify the union movement with winners and losers coming pre-picked, and in an ironic move for the president of the Post-Prohibition era, his defence of the federal right of interference in pretty much everything laid the groundwork for the War on Drugs, and the FBI according to J. Edgar Hoover.
So, yeah. Not sympathetic.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:47AM (11 children)
Then why are they still around? The whole point of emergency measures is to deal with emergencies - not many decades in between. FDR's social programs should have ended long ago (assuming they should have ever started in the first place, some of them were quite lousy even by the low standards of social programs).
And voters don't do anything directly. Votes are always for proxies who do the deeds for which they were voted in.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday June 24 2017, @09:17PM (10 children)
>whole point of emergency measures is to deal with emergencies
But are social services really an emergency measure? When the economy has shifted from agrarian through to service based, are social services "optional" anymore? My great-greats back on the farm had houses with 20+ family members in residence, those that were able worked the fields, hunted the woods, etc. and they took care of their own. Even without the shift to a goods and services economy, that model was doomed because they were having 8 and 10 children per generation and the available land for farming in that style was running out fast - right around the time of FDR. With the shift, my grandparents moved off the farm and took services jobs (teacher, sales, mechanic, hairdresser), and lived apart from the big family support units they came from. They sent their children to university (supposed to be progress...) and each successive generation moved further and further away from the core family. Without that core family, there's no social safety net, and the results are not only unpleasant, but also expensive to society.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 24 2017, @10:23PM (9 children)
There are multiple points of view in this thread. For example, your grandparent post presented the idea that social services were in response to the Great Depression, which let us note, is no longer around. Now, you present it as being a necessary part of a "service-based" economy. Either view has its merits, but my view is that social services are first and foremost, a bribe for the status quo, which unfortunately involves a lot of corruption and cronyism.
For if it were emergency services, then they would only appear when there was an emergency. If it were merely some necessary part of a modern economy, then no one would have promised more than they could deliver. There would be concern about the long term viability of these programs and they would have long ago been adjusted so that they wouldn't threaten the long term health of the US (and all other developed world economies let us note!).
But that wasn't done. Public pensions and health care to name the two universal, glaringly out of control systems, are used the same way everywhere - as a means to control the voting public. And you can tell this, because these are universal threats to the future stability and viability of the entire developed world. These programs were created and run without sufficient thought for the future. They're already bringing down the more unstable countries in Europe both directly through consuming public funds and debt that would be better either not spent at all or spent on vital services, or by creating internal dynamics that encourage excessive spending and corruption without regard to the future which is the inevitable consequence of bread and circuses.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 25 2017, @02:28AM (8 children)
My single point of view is that the Great Depression and the seriousness of its effects were a symptom of the basic changes in the economy and social structures, if the depression passed and social supports were left at, or returned to the then status-quo, another depression would have eventually happened with similar or worse severity. A "Great Depression" in 1835 would have been mostly laughed off in the rural areas, and the city folk who were hurt by it could move out to the country and make a living for themselves, even if they had to go "out west" to get some acreage to work. A "Great Depression" after 1975, without the "New Deal" social supports and government bailouts, would have resulted in mass starvation, chaos and violence. The so-called "Great Depression" of 2008-ish may have seen some people forced to move out of their 4000 square foot homes into 1200 square foot apartments, but nobody was walking town to town with just the clothes on their back looking for a way to get their next meal.
Corruption and cronyism are very real, and pervasive - not only in healthcare and public pensions, they're everywhere from city councils that make laws to enrich friends and family first while "serving the public" on their public face, all the way through national politics controlled by multiple layers of lobbyists arrayed around the D.C. beltway in an obscene display of entrenched influence purchasing acted out by a cast of tens of thousands. I've also seen plenty of it in corporate hiring and promotion decisions. You'll get no denial from me that the finances of health care aren't dysfunctional beyond wild imagination, but in my view Medicare/Medicaid is on the more rational end - not saying they're anywhere near rational, just that they're less out of control than the insurance market / organized health care providers' Ouroboros. And, when comparing public pensions to those funded by private corporations, I've heard since the 1970s how Social Security "might not be there" by the year 2000, 2010, 2020, etc., but private corporations really have raided the pension funds, left their workers high and dry, and lately they've been encouraging revolving door employment to avoid accruing pension liability in the first place. Yes, yes, we should all save for our own retirement like my Grandparents and Mother, or at least divorce and re-marry rich like my Father, but the reality is: most people don't. And when they don't, you end up with my parents-in-law who don't go to the doctor because it's too expensive / they can't afford it, end up with bigger medical problems as a result, and generally drag on in a miserable state for decades before they die.
At the end of the game, debt is an imaginary concept. The World Bank tried putting debt on the developing countries as a way to get their natural resources in-play in the global economy and it worked to some extent, but large parts of that so called debt have been written off, forgiven, just like Trump's failed casinos, paid for by other more profitable ventures. The real question is: what are people going to do - for each other, for themselves, and with the natural resources they have access to? Not all are motivated by money, but in a world where most access to food, clothing, shelter, medical care, and higher education are all controlled by access to money, you've got to do something to keep the money game working. Buying bread and circuses with tax money isn't a good long term play, but providing food, shelter, and entertainment "for free," might not be the worst thing. Free education has been a very good thing, historically. I'd also argue that free basic medical care is working for those countries that do it. Lots of problems remain to be solved no matter which direction of change is pursued, but making everyone self-pay for everything isn't a workable solution from where we stand today, especially with so much of the population on WalMart part time paychecks or worse.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 25 2017, @04:44AM (5 children)
And my view is that the Great Depression was merely a severe recession from a combination of stock market delusion and country-level weakness from the aftermath of the First World War) that got made worse and more enduring in the US by a meddling FDR. I don't buy that the "social structures" have actually made any problems of large recessions better. What is forgotten here is that the US and other countries would naturally recover from recessions anyway as they had for more than a century prior to the Great Depression.
Last I checked substantially more is still 0.being paid out of Medicare than goes in. And Medicaid is being progressively undermined to the point where it will cease to qualify as health care. In each case, we're seeing the expected outcome happen - costs of the program are being cut back by means foul or fair to match revenue going in.
It's always been a bad idea to let someone, private or public, promise the Moon and then expect some distant future authority to honor the extravagant promise. And you mention "hearing" the flaws of Social Security for forty years. Well, the flaws of the system are on us now, despite those forty years or more of warning, with costs exceeding for the first time the revenue of the program. That means that unlike the first 75 or so years of the program, we're now in a situation where Social Security is a net drain on the US government budget rather than the reverse. And it'll only get worse from now on.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:49PM (4 children)
There's a deeper problem with individuals' retirement savings than what proportion of it you let the government manage. Even if the government bows out and claims zero responsibility for old-age pensions, the value of retirement savings are still well outside the control of the persons doing the saving. Factors of inflation and market valuation, which are in a large part influenced by government decisions, I wouldn't say "controlled," but the government is one of the larger players in the game, have a tremendous bearing on how long and in what lifestyle a saver can live after putting away 20% of earnings for 40 years. In favorable conditions, that savings plan has enabled people to live indefinitely off of "secure" interest income in the same style they lived before retirement, in less favorable economies, they don't even get 10 years at 50% of their previous expense level.
Letting each individual manage their own investment decisions sounds good, but invites corruption and exploitation ala Bernie Madoff. If the free public education system included even 80 hours of investor education, I might soften this position, but even then most 17 year old kids just aren't neurologically developed to a point where they're ready or even able to think about responsible management of their future financial needs, much less recognize crooks, cons and simple bad investments. Provision of a better social safety net could be cheaper to the taxpayers than the current high-wire system where people are fine, until they fall off.
If zero personal income/savings didn't put people down in a hole where they are in real danger of dying, then there would be no need for public pensions or programs like SSI/SNAP. Nobody needs to "save for elementary school tuition," some people do and their children get some benefit of the parent's increased selection of schools. If the same were true for food, shelter, basic medical care, then government could back out of the business of managing poor people's monetary affairs. The system we have actively encourages the poor to not work: get a job earn some money, even worse save some money, lose your benefits. Lose said job, spend savings and become eligible for benefits again, jump ridiculous bureaucratic hoops to get benefits reinstated.
In the US economy of the 1700s/1800s, the able bodied could obtain land, work it and have children who also work the land and take care of their elders. This worked until populations got too high for the available resources. If we're going to continue at these population levels with people concentrated into cities, the government is going to need to provide something more for people than enforcement of contracts.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @08:13PM (1 child)
OK, so there's an eloquently stated case for governmental paternalism. Well done.
One question: what if one doesn't want that? What if one wants a government with a lighter touch? Is it OK to vote for someone who will offer that, and try to legislate that way? How about accepting that different countries might offer different approaches to various problems, and moving to countries that support your view of how a society should be run?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 26 2017, @11:37AM
I don't, but say I did like FInland's government? I also prefer Aruba's climate... now I must choose, or move to Aruba and start a revolution.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 26 2017, @05:08AM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 26 2017, @11:35AM
Nobody respects Malthus, but he was right. The underlying problem in all of this is: if you give people a comfy existence with zero penalties for reproducing (or, worse, incentives such as tax credits, etc.) they do in fact breed like rabbits, which doesn't matter on a 20 year time scale, but is disastrous on a 200 year time scale (when starting from saturation, which IMO we passed some time in the 1980s on a global scale.) Keep the fire-user through heavy-industrial populations in check by whatever means, and all the looming environmental disasters back down. Problems with population control are many - starting with pervasive entrenched economic models that are dependent on population growth, continuing through national/racial/religious etc. competition, "fair" administration of any non-voluntary systems, etc. but the benefits (for those who do get born) are huge. Clearly, my personal view is that 2 billion people living in relative ease, comfort and harmony with the (remains of the) ecosystem that they evolved from is a preferable state compared to 12 billion people living on a technological tightrope, squeezing every available bit of energy out of the planet. Get off this rock and colonize others, and I'd say that's fair use of extended living space - let the population grow other places as it is able, but raping our ecological heritage for a couple generations of high population seems short sighted, to me.
Returning to present day earth, if big brother really is going to take care of you, do you need to plan for the future? I mean, if big brother's idea of "taking care" is a 200sq ft basement apartment in BFE with rice and beans for dinner every night, yeah, I think most people would eventually grow up and do something to get out of that situation, but knowing that the roof with rice and beans is always there for you also encourages things like entrepreneurism / reasonable (and, granted, unreasonable) risk taking - just ask any rich kid that's tried to start a business or two with mom and dad's backing - should that opportunity only be available to the children of the rich? If more kids actually spend a few years trying to make a business work instead of flipping burgers, that's education about markets that you can't get in school.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @06:10AM (1 child)
You know what else are imaginary concepts?
Money.
Voting.
Laws.
Things that actually really help us get by and forge stable societies in which we can live better. Suggesting that somehow debt is just some kind of power play doesn't measure all its practical uses - it matters, for example, as a token of trust. Trust that helps us do more than we could before.
I'm not sure how you differentiate bread and circuses from the public purse, from free food, shelter and entertainment (because sure as shit someone's paying the tab - probably the taxpayers).
The question is what the society gets for its collective expenditures, and there are an awful lot of people who are getting a tiny bit tired of footing the bill for all sorts of goodies to help politicians keep their jobs, and are consequently fighting back hard against the idea of expanding the goodie bag.
Remember that if politics is the art of the possible, it includes dealing with people who disagree with you, and are pulling in the other direction.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 25 2017, @01:12PM
Last time I was in Copenhagen ~30 years ago, I saw a suburb of "free housing" ~500 sq ft "houses," heated (important there), with indoor plumbing and a television, provided for any Danish citizens who thought that's what they wanted to live in. As far as I know, they still do something similar, and the Danish economy hasn't imploded.
We don't charge money for air (though we also don't charge enough for polluting the air, either), most of the US doesn't charge money for drinking water - though companies are trying hard to make it a market of preference. If you extend the concepts and include (or, rather, raise the current standard of) shelter, food and medical care into those things that you can obtain in society without exchanging money, it seems that some people are afraid that the whole world will just sit down and refuse to work and that nothing will get done and the existing structures of free education, public roads, etc. will then cease to exist.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @05:59AM
And Air Canada sucks donkey's ball.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @02:19PM (1 child)
You know that Kodac invented digital photography too right?
Then it killed them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @06:20PM
What killed them was that they tried to bury it in order to save their film business.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @05:12PM
Nationalized airlines throw a chunk of the national budget at the problem. This is just showing off for reasons of national pride. It isn't profitable.
It is in fact a sure path to bankruptcy. Sometimes US airlines make that mistake. Shareholders do not appreciate it.
A better goal is to have the lowest operating costs that don't create a PR disaster or otherwise make the customers go elsewhere.
Customers like this too, despite claims to the contrary. We see how people vote with their dollars. People even fly on Spirit.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Friday June 23 2017, @02:13AM (1 child)
I thought Trump and his supporters agreed that America isn't Great any more? Who's hating on America more?
And if America has fallen somewhat, perhaps spurious arguments and reasoning, such as all that about "dislike", are a big reason why?
Seems America is trying to go all Byzantine. The elites are throwing dust in our eyes as hard as they can so we can't see just how much they're robbing the rest of us blind. I'm not seeing patriotism and a spirit of brotherhood from the likes of the Koch brothers, the leaders of Microsoft and many other tech companies, telecoms monopolies, oil companies, and the entire finance sector. All of them sound contemptuous, selfish, and arrogant to the extreme, think poor people are all stupid and losers and ought to be liquidated, seem perfectly willing to throw America under the bus for more money. America may well deserve a #1 ranking on most Byzantine health care system in the world. The mainstream media is all too eager to tack whichever way the wind is blowing, distort things to the greatest melodramatic extremes they can, and the heck with facts. The assault on our public education system has reached new heights. Are we seriously going to privatize all education in the US? That such a course of action is even possible in spite of the well documented problems of charter schools is bad. Propaganda and lies have longer lives and reaches than ever.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Friday June 23 2017, @03:38PM
> America may well deserve a #1 ranking on most Byzantine health care system in the world
Um, surely that accolade should go to Turkey?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @03:50AM (91 children)
And you're blathering on about how you got yours so, clearly America is still great.
Nobody believes your BS Buzzy. For the vast majority of Americans things are getting worse and worse. 20% of the people have it good and the rest got screwed to make that happen. People like you are a large part of the reason. You can't admit that you had a huge helping of luck to get you where you are today. Had you been born with a disability, had an accident or had parents with serious substance abuse issues, you wouldn't be making those silly assertions about how you worked so much harder.
I've known many a minimum wage worker, and they work far, far harder than delusional people like you would have us believe. They have to, because at minimum wage there are literally only 12 counties where you can afford rent only 40 hours of minimum wage work.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @04:32AM (88 children)
He's a real prize isn't he? I hope the shithead reincarnates in the third world poor, female, black, gay, and Muslim...*after* he does his time in Hell.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @06:40AM (40 children)
The tolerant left, everybody!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @04:06PM (3 children)
Tolerance has its limits, and fucktards like uzzie cross the line. We are tolerant of Muslims, yet intolerant of the ones who become terrorists. Tolerant of conservatives, intolerant of the ones who promote the destruction of our country through oppression of its people. You may not understand this, you may be angry about such an attitude, but until conservatives realize the the GOP is a terrorist organization things are not going to change. Liberals have tried to compromise, tried to reach out, yet conservatives double down on ignorance and get angry at "elitist liberals". The problem lies with the group of people that won't join the 21st century and consider things like discrimination and environmental protections as "polished turds".
Tolerance only extends to things which do not harm others. Conservatives may thrive on anger but they don't have a monopoly on it. Grow up you sensitive snowflakes and stop with the persecution complex.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 23 2017, @05:37PM (2 children)
Unlike you, I support your right to be a miserable, bigoted fucktard as long as you aren't harmful to others. Sure, I'll mock you for your ignorance, but someone has to play the role of fool. It might as well be you. So go ahead, feel that two minute hate. Show us the love!
Well, Buzz tolerates you. I guess that makes him the better man.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @09:09PM (1 child)
Awww you don't like being in the out-group? So saaaaad.
You can twist words into whatever makes you feel like a holier than thou martyr. Typical gas lighting from the conservative base here, flip the blame, cry wolf, project your own issues on to others. Adult babies.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by khallow on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:42AM
Same could be said of all those ethnic groups who've ended up such over the millennia. I gather that you think that was a bad thing.
Well, you seem really intent on showing us just how much of a fucktard you are. Good luck with that. I find the blind hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance interesting, but it must make your life hard to have so much really dumb conflict going on in your skull.
At some point, you might want to get consistent in your thinking. If bigotry is bad when other people do it, maybe it's not so good when you do it too.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @06:18PM (35 children)
Read Popper's "The Paradox of Tolerance," please. Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance, it's self-destruction. You're making the same mistake libertarians everywhere do, and the same one de Raadt did when licensed OpenSSH under the BSD license and complained that big corporations weren't contributing anything back.
Here's the key: maximal freedom is not the same thing as minimal rules. Try and figure out why.
(PS: Crai. Sum. Moar. Your tears are delicious, though oddly high-fat. So exercise more too.)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @06:45PM (2 children)
You mean when like when you tolerate Muslims? The most fucking intolerant, backwards-ass culture on the planet?
You should practice what you preach dumbass.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @08:02PM
Uh, do you know who you're talking to? I routinely get yelled at on here for being anti-Muslim when I point out just how backwards and dangerous they are. Try again, needledick.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @09:15PM
I would be tolerant of many Muslims, the same way I'm tolerant of most Christians. If a Muslim has the jihad mentality then the tolerance goes away, same for extremist Christians who promote violence.
This isn't a tough concept, but I guess conservative brains just can't function without broad labels. "All muslims are terrorists! All liberals are elitist gay drug users! All taxes are bad!"
Don't do propaganda, cause propaganda is bad mmkaay?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @08:03PM (30 children)
Careful. Your crazy is showing again. Try toning it down a little.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @08:43PM (29 children)
What crazy? That's derived right from the Law of Non-contradiction: A != !A. A thing cannot be its own negation. Did you fail logic in school? ...did you go to school?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @10:23PM (28 children)
(PS: Crai. Sum. Moar. Your tears are delicious, though oddly high-fat. So exercise more too.)
For your reference:
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=14894&commentsort=0&mode=threadtng&threshold=-1&highlightthresh=-1&page=1&cid=389176 [soylentnews.org]
There's the crazy I was talking about. Maybe check your prescriptions? If you have any? Or take up yoga and meditation, I hear it helps.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @11:16PM (27 children)
None of that is crazy, sorry. No matter how much you want it to be. Angry != crazy (or wrong for that matter).
It's been said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Turns out that's wrong; it's actually tone trolling. If my tone is hurting your precious little yellow snowflake feelings, feel free to have an attack of the vapors on yonder fainting couch whilst clutching your pearls :)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @11:24PM (26 children)
It doesn't have to be crazy. It just has to sound crazy for you to be less likely to persuade people.
Of course, if this is just Random Angry Performance Art, I stand corrected; rave on.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @11:31PM (25 children)
AC, some people will *never* be persuaded by anything. That's the point. For those people, all that remains is mockery and denunciation, to make them a negative example for the less-far-gone who may be watching. Hilariously, this group often thinks they're the smartest people in the room, and say and do things that make them look worse than anything I could possibly say/do to/about them. They don't know what I refer to as the first rule of holes ("when you're in a hole, stop digging"), mostly because they aren't aware they're in a hole.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @11:44PM (24 children)
Yes, yes, I get all that.
Let me see if I can explain something to you:
Unless you somehow mark this as Random Angry Performance Art or similar, you also by extension make the rest of us look crazy. See how it works? Every time MSNBC catches one of Trump's fanclub fulminating, you know and I know that they're the craziest person that the newscrew could identify. But it doesn't matter. All the trumpeters get associated with that crazy. Your conduct affects the whole movement.
I hate to dig up such trite phrases from the early days, but "The personal is the political" is still meaningful.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:06AM (23 children)
That makes no sense. Look, the "conservatives" have *already* decided that anyone who doesn't toe the party line is morally insane or worse, so what does it matter anyway? They're completely off the reservation, engaged, in their own minds, in an endless life-or-death struggle with us. 3/4ths of it is happening in their own demented imaginations.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:35AM (22 children)
Fair enough. You've claimed the freedom to be the left's Ethanol-Fueled.
Welp, it's a free(ish) country (for now). Knock yourself out.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday June 24 2017, @02:31AM (21 children)
Hardly. Eth is a professional troll. He's also an awful person but the ratio of "hilarious over the top cesspit humor" to "stuff he really ought to be slapped for" is high enough to keep him on the humorous side so long as he's not angry and losing his temper.
Me, I'm dead serious. If I were a troll, several people here would likely have died of apoplexy by now :D
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @04:18AM (20 children)
Maybe you're trolling me by faking being dense, but I'll try again:
to the casual observer you are indistinguishable from the professional troll, which does the cause harm because you help them other everybody who stands for tolerance. You might be being all slick and clever and ironic, and maybe you think you're having a wild old time and nobody's getting hurt, but you're not presenting what you say you think you're presenting.
TL;DR: you're not helping. You're making your comrades look stupid. Try more propanolol or whatever it is you take.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday June 24 2017, @05:38AM (19 children)
Then the "casual observer" is fucking retarded and can piss off. And they can stop entertaining the fantasy that the really hardcore "conservatives" are ever going to be anything but degenerate small-time sociopaths. That's all that's left on the "conservative" side except for a few slow-to-catch-on fiscal wonks anymore, sad to say. There is no more time to educate those people; all that is left is rightful ridicule, derision, and excoriation.
Don't you get it yet? The "conservative" population of the US is either stupid, insane, or evil. We're not dealing with functioning, social human beings here any longer. All we can do is ridicule them whenever they decide to drop trou and take a leak in the meme pool. And I think we're not going to win this fight; this generation and this country are fucked.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 24 2017, @06:06AM (18 children)
Well, I think that this is the most eloquent argument for civil war I've heard.
The other side are not merely deplorable, but permanently, irretrievably evil. (OK, or stupid or insane - neither of which hold out much hope for rehabilitation.) They're not "functioning, social human beings".
Well, hell, Bubba, if'n them varmints're all got tha rabies, we'd better get shewtin'!
By that standard, the DC diamond shooter was just opening fire in the civil war, and justifiably so.
If this is really, truly, what you believe in your heart of hearts, you should probably just leave your closet and be an out-and-proud warrior for Team Blue. But somehow I doubt that you actually believe you're sharing the country with a substantial population of irredeemable monsters - you just don't want to contemplate the hard work of building bridges.
Try it anyway. It's worth it.
Or just, y'know, start shooting 'till them varmints get ya.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday June 25 2017, @02:52AM (17 children)
I hope to Cthulhu it never comes to that. As it is I'd rather flee than kill someone, but if I get backed into a corner...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 25 2017, @06:02AM (16 children)
You're the one who called people evil, stupid or insane. What else were you planning on doing with them? Locking them up in some kind of conservazoo? I think you'd have to win a war to be able to do that.
Or were you just planning on running around town same as before, and waving the crazy flag online when whining about the fact that you can't see half the country as human? Oh, sorry, functional social humans.
I'm sincerely hoping that you're more self-aware than that, and that your hyperbolic whimpers are just a substitute for therapy that will help you come to terms with the situation. Otherwise, if you really believe your own ravings, I can't see how or why you wouldn't start the next civil war.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday June 25 2017, @08:23PM (15 children)
Oh fuck off you tone-trolling little prick. What i intend to do is go to ground somewhere and wait until all this blows over, hoping and praying I don't end up as collateral damage.
Humanity has always been majority insane and majority evil. This is nothing new to me. I'm just hoping the crazies don't get *so* politically powerful they end up collapsing the nation on top of me.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @03:28AM (14 children)
So let's get this straight: you think the majority of people everywhere are insane, and/or evil. Including in the USA. And that in the USA, the conservatives (i.e. people who think that government should be modified in a gradual and careful fashion - or did you mean reactionaries? Or populists? I'm not sure what you mean any more, really.) are particularly evil and/or insane.
And your solution is to hide in a hole somewhere and hope that any explosions don't hit you - while getting loud and proud online.
Admittedly, you sound less crazy now. Also, less sincere (much less sincere) but less crazy.
Possibly in due course you can come round to the idea that people who disagree with you politically are not necessarily the wicked infidels to your enlightened priesthood but just, y'know, folks.
Who disagree with you.
And are much more likely to respond well to reasoned and reasonable dialectic than spittle-flying, finger-waving, puce-faced screeching scoldings.
The hard part will be seeing them as people. People who love their kids, want rich and stable communities, and a healthy environment.
They just disagree with you on how to get there.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday June 26 2017, @04:41AM (13 children)
Are you done with your arrogant tone-trolling bullshit yet? Sorry if you don't like the fact that I've written most of the human race off, but long study has convinced me most of the world population is irretrievably insane.
And if you think disagreeing on such things as "our government shouldn't be subsidizing massive tax cuts on the back of the already-poorly-off" DOESN'T make someone a piece of shit, well, all that proves is that YOU are a piece of shit too. This isn't tribalism, this is plain old common sense. Which is increasingly rare these days.
tl;dr: go have your attack of the vapors on the fainting couch, you cowardly fucking troll. And shove your false equivalences so far up your pusillanimous ass your grandparents, all four of them, get a cramp in Hell.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @06:35AM (12 children)
I think that you should first attempt to ascertain to what extent people genuinely think things such as "our government should be subsidizing massive tax cuts on the back of the already-poorly-off". Arguing that people shouldn't believe things that they don't already believe is part of the crazy sound, not the persuasive sound.
You could probably dig up a few loonies who actually think that tax cuts for the elite are a good idea, regardless of who suffers, but more often than not, the question comes down to a demarcation dispute. One side's vital, must-have benefits are the other side's optional extras. Both sides might agree on a social safety net, but disagree utterly on how big and elastic it needs to be. They might also attach different values to the size of government, to the priorities of various government functions and of course to the limits of government.
Hell, even folks on the left have a hard time figuring out how much of what should go to whom, and in which order. Just this week I was having a discussion with a person who felt that trade unions should be subsidised organisations on the grounds that their role is so important. The ideas that, respectively, subsidies might lead to undue influence on the one hand, and that as private organisations they don't need subsidies, didn't really seem to cut much ice.
So obviously, there's room for mature disagreement.
You should try it sometime.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday June 26 2017, @07:24AM (11 children)
Well, here's a place to start: every other first world nation has single-payer healthcare, and before someone starts with "butbutbut MUH CULTURAL HOMOGENEITY" or "too many people!" or "America does all the drug research!", maybe consider that the problem here is the insurance companies and other rent-seeking middlemen who've brought themselves a government.
So enough with that "One side's vital, must-have benefits are the other side's optional extras" stuff. We are on the verge of giving the already tremendously wealthy even MORE unearned wealth on the backs of the poorest and most vulnerable, and I don't see anyone from the groups I've been labeling "degenerate" and similar speaking up. Nope, it's more "go team, make dem goddam lib'ruls squeal like a piggy!"
Mature disagreement presupposes that my opposite number is mature. But the longer I live the more I'm convinced most people never made it through middle school in their own heads.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @04:22PM (10 children)
I think I see the problem; you're not well aware of the sober opposition, as opposed to CNN's conservafreak-of-the-week show (oh, those nutty neo-nazi trumpies!) and consequently you aren't aware of the more balanced, and nuanced opposition to your views.
(By the way, you're wrong about the single-payer universality thing. You should probably do more detailed research - and even where it's kindasorta true, it takes radically different forms.)
... so no, not enough with that "One side's vital, must-have benefits are the other side's optional extras" stuff. You're screaming at a village idiot, while ignoring a well-equipped opponent. Making fun of Fox is good sport, but let's not pretend that they're the best and brightest of the opposition.
What about the techno-libertarian point of view that the problem with medical delivery is primarily one of cost, which is primarily driven by the government's maintenance of the patent regime (for drugs) and groups like the AMA who limit the entrants into the medical field? I'm not endorsing this point of view, but it's a fairly well-supported, well-researched and nuanced one with an actual basis in fact that you run across with some frequency here. If you're not unpicking that position, while screaming your bile at some ultra-rich class warrior ghost in your head, you're not helping.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday June 26 2017, @04:51PM (9 children)
Have you not seen how many posts of mine rail against regulatory capture?
Look, I'm not a typical leftist. I've studied these things in some depth and am entirely in agreement with the people pointing out artificial barriers...when they *are* barriers. The problem is every self-described "libertarian" I've ever met, techno- prefix or not, has this bizarrely black-and-white, almost Calvinist, worldview. They think either there needs to be no regulation what-so-freaking-ever, or else everything is regulated, badly, to hell and back by those eeeeeeeevil gubbemint bureaucrats. They do not make the distinction between regulation and regulatory capture, nor between necessary and unnecessary regulation.
Ironically, they're making the same mistake the gun-grabbers on the left do. They will be the first to say "guns don't kill people, people do" but when you point out "regulation doesn't kill industry, corrupt and/or incompetent regulators do" they scream and melt like the Wicked Witch of the West.
The other problem they have is thinking "minimal rules" is the same thing as "maximal freedom." I sincerely hope this is just naive shortsightedness on their part, as the *only* other possibility is that they know goddamn well that the last rule standing will be rule of force, and are somehow thinking they are naturally going to be the ones ruling. This is more or less the same thing as Theo de Raadt wetting himself over corporations taking his BSD-licensed OpenSSL and not giving anything back, when the GPL has always been there.
Face it, AC, at least half the adult US population *is* "the village idiot." We have entire villages, towns, cities, effectively even states, of idiots. I live in Wisconsin and would offer this state as a prime example. Take also Texas, with Austin as one of maybe two or three small pools of relative sanity in a zillion square miles of desert idiocy. The malignant ones in charge ride the massive tide of fools and smother the few principled and educated ones out there. It's hopeless. All that remains is for this plague to burn itself out.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:26AM (8 children)
So, because half of people fit into some category that you deem fit to refer to as the village idiot, thoughtful policy analysis is off the table?
Don't you think that taking the high ground of ideas is worth some time and trouble? In fact, the same time and trouble that you spend waving your Rage Flag and complaining about how Buzzard, or khallow, or whoever doesn't agree with you because they're stupid and evil and sacrifice kittens to their dark libertarian gods?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday June 27 2017, @03:05AM (7 children)
Okay, now I know you're trolling me. Bugger off with this tone bullshit; we're done. Go cry in a corner somewhere if I'm hurting your feelings.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:50AM (6 children)
I'm just going by what you're saying.
You explicitly discount thoughtful opposition, you paint your opponents collectively with a very ugly set of stereotypes, and you refuse to engage with them - your classic strategies of those who despise their adversaries. You do everything short of declaring war on them - shrinking from that by saying that, in essence, you want others to do your fighting and killing and dying for you, and hope to survive it all.
The First Amendment Options are generally better for society than the Second Amendment Options simply because they're less destructive. The only problem is that they take work. If you genuinely believe the things that you claim to (I have my doubts at this point) it would only make sense to actually support them on the memetic battlefield. Right now, you're acting more like an agent provocateur for the right wing than a thoughtful adherent of the left.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:13PM (5 children)
Listen, AC, most of the human race has *always* been somewhere between idiotic and insane. This is not new. And declaring an actual war on those people is a losing proposition due to sheer numbers. There would be no honor in victory, no sympathy in defeat, and no point in even trying. The stereotypes may be ugly, but they also hold more than a kernel of truth, and as I've pointed out many times before, *nothing* those "ugly stereotypes" say about people is as ugly as what those people actually do. At this point it's not even a stereotype, it's a goddamn news archive.
Do you understand where the monastic urge comes from, what makes people want to hole up on top of mountains or deep in the forest or in some far-off temple somewhere? It's having this realization. When you realize that there is nothing you can do, nothing you could *ever* have done, about the power of stupid people in large numbers, you get jaded. You beg history to release you from its grip. You become constantly tired no matter how much you sleep. You begin to despise the world, and start asking yourself how you can compromise with it to keep your sanity.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:54PM (4 children)
OK, so you're feeling dreadfully alone in an ocean of dissent. You're the bearded desert prophet, fed on locusts and wild honey, railing against the excesses of the worshippers of Mammon.
All righty.
But you're having a hard time getting the oafish infidels to hear your words. How could this be? You've tried carefully reasoned discourse (I presume - I can't say that I've seen this, but I'll take it on faith), you've tried angry rants, and you've tried insults and calumny. None of them worked.
Which, if any, resulted in constructive, on-topic engagement? Which, if any, result in constructive, on-topic engagement when done by other people? (Don't answer none, because I've seen counterexamples.)
I could go for trite statements about the value of being the change that you want to see in the world, or quote Michael Jackon's Man in the Mirror, but let's face it, you want facts, not feels. What will best move the needle in your preferred direction? Constructive engagement, with those who are most willing to hear your words. Ignore the idealogues, find the independents, and address them.
And try doing it in a temperate fashion. It works better.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:28PM (3 children)
In case you hadn't noticed, this place has long since polarized the independents away. I've had success with a few dozen people on other venues, but there really don't seem to be many centrists here, and certainly no actual leftists aside from Gewg.
There's nothing left to do with the degenerates except mercilessly mock them. If there is one thing their kind hates, it's being laughed at.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 28 2017, @03:30PM (2 children)
No, there are independents here.
They just tend to be shouted down by angry banner-wavers. If you read, looking for nuance, you can find them.
As for "no other leftists aside from Gewg" that says more about your definition of the left, than about the population at large here. First off, it's not actually true. If you're looking for someone who wants the triumph of the collectivist workers' movement, Gewg is the most vocal, but not the only one. And if you broaden your definition even slightly, there are dozens who fit that mould. Certainly there's no shortage of people who actively support even rather left wing versions of the scandinavian model, which can hardly be described as remotely centrist.
"There's nothing left to do with the degenerates except mercilessly mock them. If there is one thing their kind hates, it's being laughed at."
I don't believe that's true. In fact, on the evidence available I'd say that they're laughing at you because you're fulfilling their vision of the crazy lefty snowflake. Even if you look outside the world of Soylent, it rapidly goes topsy-turvy. Look at all the people who proudly reclaimed the Deplorables tag, cheerfully throwing it in Hillary's face. If you remember the 2008 election, you can probably remember bumper stickers reading something like: "I'll keep my God, gold and guns, you can keep the change." So as quickly as you paint on a sneer, it's ignored or inverted.
And if you think about it, it makes sense. "Redneck" has been everything from an affectionate punchline in the mouths of the likes of Jeff Foxworthy to a toxic slur as venomous as "Nigger" for decades at this point. The hectoring, finger-waving left has been just as responsible for building the resilience of those they despise, as isolating them. Frankly, the laughter of the left is something that they either ignore or welcome at this point. They're very well practiced at turning that around, and painting whoever the source was, as just yet another of the forces arrayed against them.
In a nutshell, this is why you aren't persuading them of anything other than who or what you are - and by extension, those who agree with you can be painted as being just as crazy as you.
The left has done the exact same thing over the years, of course. Everyone who suggested that the economy did OK under Reagan (regardless of how much he actually had to do with it) is immediately painted as either an american aristocrat with their hats out for government handouts, or a patsy for them, mocked with various slurs around the concept of trickling down.
So you should probably re-evaluate your strategy; the old one has stopped working (inasmuch as it ever did).
Also, a footnote: by lumping your opposition all together, whether they're Beltway-inhabiting Rockefeller Republicans, Westboro Baptists or Silicon Valley technolibertarians, you lose a lot of credibility.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday June 28 2017, @04:51PM (1 child)
For Christ's sake, I *know* there is a difference between the inbred Southerner who thinks moonshine is a food group and the "techno-libertarian" in terms of their methods. You're attacking the version of me from freshman year of high school.
And this is still mostly tone trolling. Understand something: I am a "values" woman. I searched for, and found, universal human truths, moral facts if you will, and the fact that they supervene on humanity rather than being God-breathed Platonic entities does not make them one whit less real. And no matter whether it's Billy-Bob Cornshucks with more toes than teeth or that creepy pedarastic vampire Peter Thiel, they are both elevating things (whether ideas or material things like wealth) above people.
This is the moral equivalent of a priority-inversion glitch. The economy was meant for humankind, not humankind for the economy. Ideas are objects and people are subjects, not vice-versa. And this kind of ass-backwards thinking has gotten so much volume, so much momentum, that it could very well spell the downfall of civilization. Worse, we've used up almost all the "easy energy" in the form of hydrocarbons already; if we really fuck up, we are *never* going to rise past the Iron Age again.
And the large mass of willful idiots, who think politics and metaphysics both are team sports, are gleefully cheering the ship as it goes down sinking, thinking that because they're not in steerage they'll stay afloat. What can be done with people like this? Nothing will convince them. I've seen better men and women than myself try and fail, over and over and over. If nothing works, there is nothing to do but curse them for their role in this.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 29 2017, @12:49AM
"You're attacking the version of me from freshman year of high school."
I'm not attacking anything. I'm trying to help you here. I see you expending so much energy counterproductively, and so I try to help you understand where it's not working, and why.
I'd also dispute that your adversaries are necessarily elevating things above people. Sometimes they're passionately involved in activities such as charity - they just disagree with you on what would benefit people in general.
As for the ones you call "willful idiots" I can only suggest that if you try, you might reach them, but if you curse them, you most definitely won't. In a sense, you're presently the architect of your own failure.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 24 2017, @10:39PM
Sorry, there is no Popperian "get out of jail free" card for being a bigot. The problem with your narrative is two-fold.
First, there is no sense of degree. Someone has their "intolerant" bit switched on and you thus, have your own intolerance bit set. There should be nuance - more concern about the extreme acts of bigotry rather than the piddling and often imaginary microaggressions. But it's all treated the same, as some sort of religious sin that is equally bad no matter how little is exhibited by particular out-groups.
And of course, that last term brings us to the second problem - ridiculous double standards where bigotry from one group (for example, white males) is widely criticized no matter how small or imaginary it happens to be, while bigotry from other groups is roundly ignored (for example, black males).
(Score: 1, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @10:34AM (39 children)
Pssst, muslim is a choice. As are gay and poor.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by FatPhil on Friday June 23 2017, @10:43AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @11:08AM (19 children)
In many cases and in many places including the UK, Aus and the US, leaving islam carries the penalty of death, or worse (usually involving acid).
Sure, they have a choice. Live in pain or worse for life or die. Not much of a choice.
They don't give 8yo girls any choice in the wearing of a head scarf to "honour allah". How does a child refuse?
Try again.
(Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @11:26AM (17 children)
My cowardly comrade, if you aren't willing to put your life on the line for your convictions, you don't have any convictions.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Kell on Friday June 23 2017, @02:31PM (8 children)
Or perhaps there is more benefit to living to make affect change, than making a hollow and ultimately futile point? The smart person works within a system to shape and direct it, rather than raging against a force beyond their ability to overcome in a petulant display of pique. That's why I respect reformers and leaders more than matyrs - it takes time to turn the tide of whole society, but when you do it is longer lasting and more effective.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 23 2017, @06:14PM
Martyrs are an essential element. Without them, reformers and leaders have no touchstone.
Smart people work within systems all the time thinking that's the way to effect change, but what mostly happens is they get tripped up and cut down and discouraged in a thousand ways. Without martyrs or other figures who cut through the crap, those smart people lose their writ to shut the avatars of the status quo the hell up.
That said, martyrs alone don't make for lasting change either. Jesus would have existed without Paul, but without Paul there would have been no Christianity.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @11:23PM
Oh I dunno, if he wants to kill himself to make a point, I say we let him :D Free country and all that. Of course he may have been including himself in that group of people who don't have any convictions...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 24 2017, @10:47PM (5 children)
Knuckling under isn't living to make/affect change. I'll note that for many of these sorts of ideologies, you have to go out of your way to belong. You have to ignore a lot of the modern world, like in the case of Islam why Allah would permit the heathen, decadent US to be better off than your Islamic paradise. You have to wear some pretty substantial blinders.
(Score: 2) by Kell on Sunday June 25 2017, @02:22AM (4 children)
I didn't say "knuckle under", I said live to make change. If putting on a burka in ISIS controlled territory keeps you alive long enough to get out or to raise your kids to not be murderers, then it's worth it. Going out in a singular blaze of glory prohibits any further actions after that point. Even small changes can add up over a long time - it's the integral under the curve that counts.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 25 2017, @04:33AM (3 children)
Except when those small changes don't actually happen.
(Score: 2) by Kell on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:37PM (2 children)
Then why not be that person? Be the change you want to see in the world.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday June 26 2017, @12:31AM (1 child)
I believe I am.
(Score: 2) by Kell on Monday June 26 2017, @04:14AM
Excellent! I think we both agree you're doing more good that way than by being a martyr. I would miss you. :)
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 1) by i286NiNJA on Friday June 23 2017, @04:16PM (1 child)
Really? Please tell us of your adventures in the military buzzy.. also I'm sure you've never backed down from a fight in your life.
You're so full of shit if there was any truth to what you're saying you'd be dead by now. But it sounds cool right?
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @05:25PM
Can't say as I remember ever doing so, no. Lost a few though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @05:16PM
Yeah those 8 year olds ought to be ashamed that there not willing to put there life on the line to stand up for your version of freedom, Freedom!, FREEDOM!
can't... stop... eyes... from... rolling.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @11:13PM (4 children)
I call your bluff. Video of your supposed "convictions" or you're just another hypocritical keyboard warrior.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:56AM (3 children)
I could post my DD-214, I suppose, but I'm not going to. I have no need to prove my convictions to you. I've proven them to myself since before I could buy my own smokes. Your opinion is irrelevant.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by i286NiNJA on Monday June 26 2017, @06:16PM (2 children)
Why don't you tell us what your branch and MOS was. I think that'd be a good start.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 27 2017, @10:54AM (1 child)
Army, 52C. Yeah, it's not glamorous but it got me a good paying job right out of service.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by i286NiNJA on Wednesday June 28 2017, @04:06PM
welp I wasn't expecting a believable answer but I guess at least you served.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday June 23 2017, @09:12PM
> They don't give 8yo girls any choice in the wearing of a head scarf to "honour allah". How does a child refuse?
They don't give baby boys any choice in keeping their foreskins. How does a newborn refuse?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @06:01PM (13 children)
Gay is not a choice. If it were, *every woman on the planet would be a lesbian.* The fact that, what, 97% of us still like men and only men despite the utter shit we've had since before humanity even figured out farming is the single strongest possible argument that we don't choose what we are.
Know what it mean when a guy tells you "gay is a choice?" He's bisexual and repressing it. It's only a "choice" if you swing both ways. Thanks for revealing what I've suspected about you since the start.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @08:30PM (3 children)
Yeah, you lot keep saying that... Doesn't make it true though. I know at least one gay man who sucks cock simply because it was the preferable choice to putting up with "insane female bullshit".
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @08:48PM (2 children)
That is a bisexual. That is a prime example of what I'm talking about. He admits that he *could* be with a woman, but since he has the choice, he goes with another man because "hurr hurr womens' bullshit."
My girlfriend is similar: she likes men and women sexually, but *chooses* exclusively to be with women because of a disdain for mens' bullshit. See how that works?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:37AM (1 child)
I only see that you're trying to be special when you're not.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday June 24 2017, @02:34AM
Oh, don't worry, sweetie, I know I'll never be "special" like you. That's a good thing, though; I imagine it must get really tiresome needing to drag that ramp and helmet everywhere, right, Chief Shitting Bull?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @09:10PM (6 children)
I find it weird that despite all the bluster you flap on about, you still use an accusation of someone being gay, as an insult and a weapon.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @09:25PM (5 children)
To a macho moron like Uzzard there, it *is* an insult. That's the point. *I* am gay, have you forgotten? But it's not an insult to me. Do you see how this works? Context, context!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:42AM (4 children)
S'not an insult to me either. Just gets you a funny look like calling me asian or black would.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday June 24 2017, @02:43AM (3 children)
Nonsense, no one would mistake you for black or any kind of Asian. Those simply would not happen. But damn if you aren't banging on some glass closet doors...it's okay, Uzzard, Let It Go, as the most popular coming-out song of the decade says.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 24 2017, @08:34AM (2 children)
Fine, I admit it. I'm a lesbian. I was just born the wrong gender and have to lug around a cock n balls while being so.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 24 2017, @10:51PM
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday June 25 2017, @03:01AM
Good grief, are you even trying anymore? This is actually getting boring. Though if you want the meat and two veg sliced off, have at it; i can't see any possible downside to you not being able to reproduce.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @11:42PM (1 child)
Of course it is a choice. You can choose not to be Gay same as I can choose not to be a murderer. If you are attracted to men as a man, and don't fuck men, then you are not gay.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:08AM
What? I'd still be a lesbian even if I were utterly celibate. Sexual orientationis about who you love and who you want to fuck, not what you do. Are you saying that someone who never has sex due to, for example, not being able to find a partner is actually asexual, even though they want to?
You don't seem to know what words mean.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @06:25PM (3 children)
This comment is why I don't feel bad about not renewing my subscription.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @08:22PM (2 children)
Good deal. We prefer those who can handle contrary points of view around here. This is no place for snowflakes.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday June 23 2017, @09:14PM (1 child)
It is a boring world, the one where one is totally protected from all trolls.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:43AM
Yup. Thinking that is a good idea will end with book burnings and reeducation camps.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 23 2017, @06:16PM (5 children)
Don't wish that too hard lest the universe in its infinite absurdity chooses to reincarnate you as The Mighty Buzzard.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @07:57PM (4 children)
That would never happen. I've advanced too far in at least one previous life to come back with that kind of moral deficiency; as I understand it, such things simply do not happen.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @08:13PM (3 children)
You'll come back as everybody. We all will. The people you hate, the people you love. They are you. They are me.
That All Is One thing is more than hippie bullshit. It is reality. Deal with it.
Posted as AC because it really doesn't matter who I am. See above.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @08:46PM (2 children)
You're correct that All is One, but incorrect as to how reincarnation happens...and why. It's not supposed to happen. It's the equivalent of getting left back a grade and very often put in a remedial class. For my part, I've had enough of this madhouse and I don't intend to come back.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @09:28PM (1 child)
If only it were so easy as "nope not again". Gotta finish the lessons, figure out why you keep coming back.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 23 2017, @11:25PM
My best guess is I probably hurt someone financially last life. I remember the NYC subway system in the 70s and am pretty sure I was a man last time--supposedly people who switch genders between lives are more likely to be gay, which would explain me. Possibly I was stubborn and foolish when people warned me about this, too, which might have manifested as my current genetic hearing loss.
However, I've cottoned on to all of this this time around, even contacted a dead grandfather (and got information that made no sense until I asked relatives who knew him, as he died before I was born). It sounds like if I can keep myself from doing anything stupid like murder and keep developing myself, I shouldn't need to come back any more.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @06:43PM
Oh no, did you just unleash the whole PROGRESSIVE STACK on him? LOL you guys are fucking perma-victims of your own closed minds.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @05:37PM
He is my son. He started working at age 15 at Ace Hardware. He works 3.5 hours per week. He mostly helps deliver pool chemicals, filling and carrying jugs. Sometimes he stocks shelves.
He isn't a critical employee. If minimum wage were higher, he wouldn't have the job.
It's a starter job for a teen. He has the job in order to get a reference for various future purposes -- college, scholarships, first "real" job, etc.
Minimum wage jobs are not for adults. It is pretty rotten when an adult takes a minimum wage job, because they are denying an opportunity to a teen who really needs the reference and the experience of being accountable to a person other than a parent. Teen employment is way down, and this is not a good thing.
The fact that rent is unaffordable on minimum wage is partly unimportant (teens don't usually pay rent) and partly a problem of regulations driving up the cost of rent. Poor people can't afford to live in places that meet a fancy 1st-world building code. When you offer no more economic value than a person in Taiwan living in a bed-sized cage or a person in Yeman living in a dirt hut, you will get paid well enough to live in a cage or dirt hut. This is globalization for you. Don't like it? Well, this is why Trump's opposition to globalization plays pretty well with the American heartland. The leftist attempt at fixing the situation can be observed in Venezuela and Zimbabwe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @06:55PM
So you are against the lottery and lottery winners?
You are a moron with totally unrealistic view of the world. People will have different circumstances and different outcomes, it's called life. It's unfair. I'd hate to live in a totally fair world, where if something bad happens to you you get no pity because you "deserved it." I'd also hate to live in your idea of "fair" world, which would result in the end of civilization and reversion to tribal-like existence withing 1 generation.
"What's that? You are an illiterate, 60 IQ handicapped individual but you dream of being a neural surgeon? Oh that's OK don't worry, not only will we let you study to be a neural surgeon, we will also ensure you get preferential treatment getting into med-school, we will make sure they lower the standards so you can maintain 4.0, we will pay for the whole thing with the money of the evil able-body intellectuals, and we will make sure you are paid FAIR WAGE after you graduate. And if anyone dares to not want to have you operate on their brain, we will put them in prison for their INTOLERANCE for 30 years!"
That's the world you want to build you fucking moron.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @10:54AM
You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @04:10PM (9 children)
Snowflake alert: "They released a report that didn't flatter our egos, woe is us they are so mean! Waaa waaa!!"
My god you assholes just see everyone as the enemy don't you? Delusion sure is your strong suit.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @05:26PM (8 children)
I think you need to learn what snowflake means. It's not a generic insult.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 23 2017, @06:18PM (5 children)
"Snowflake" is a drop-in replacement for "fag," which you're not to use pejoratively anymore. We all know what is meant by it, though.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Friday June 23 2017, @07:14PM (4 children)
Oh wow I know this is going to sound smartass but I did not make that connection.
Now I understand the usage of "cuck" too. Legit thought that the conservative types just became fetishists over night.
I mean that's okay. Preferable really. Cause it's fucking weird that was the fetish that was picked of all things.
Also I didn't realize there'd be this much response to MB. People are acting like he's some uppity 1%er or something. That's amusing to me. Granted I can see why people would be annoyed with his sort of talk at this point. It's aight. When we think back on this someday sensible chuckles and yucks will be had at this commiespeak surely.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 23 2017, @08:26PM (3 children)
It amuses the hell out of me too. Though I'd have a much nicer fishing boat if I were.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @09:53PM (2 children)
No one thinks you're rich, you just promote the same agenda as the 1%. You get flack for it because you're so vocal and often have a really screwed up viewpoint. The best/worst part is that the times people think you're trolling is when you are actually serious. You and your cohorts support a world that only works in theory, and in reality results in massive suffering. This seems to be OK with you because of the "fuck you got mine" attitude. I imagine that the march of science and rise of nihilism is what makes you lack morality and general empathy, but it could just be your genetics / upbringing.
Either way you show your horrible traits enough that finally a wider crowd has noticed. The "tolerant left" has finally been pushed too far and we're not gonna take the abuse from the "right". It really is funny how the biggest snowflakes are always the conservative types who now moan and whine about the injustices of the world. The irony is 100% lost on you though, otherwise you wouldn't be what you are.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:48AM
Back at ya. You're not in the majority in your views or they would be how the nation is run.
Yours is worse. We've seen the results. USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, and all the old eastern bloc nations. Socialism has never, ever worked on a national scale. It always turns out worse than capitalism given nations of comparable wealth.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday June 25 2017, @04:58AM
Projection. Globalism and a capitalism-based economy has resulted in the largest improvement in the human condition ever - happening right now. You can't compare the present system to some imaginary perfect system, but rather to our other choices available. And the observation we can make here is that it is better than anything else we have come up with.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 23 2017, @10:52PM (1 child)
You hide pretty well behind your well practiced mask of calm confidence, but you're a snowflake crying out against anything that harms your worldview. You keep the whining tone to a minimum, but that doesn't change the core of your reactions.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 24 2017, @12:51AM
No, sweety, I'm mocking idiocy. It amuses me to do so. And you need to learn the proper use of the term snowflake. It has a definite meaning: someone whose world view is so fragile that it cannot tolerate dissenting views.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.