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Researchers have unlocked the chemistry of Roman concrete which has resisted the elements for thousands of years.
Ancient sea walls built by the Romans used a concrete made from lime and volcanic ash to bind with rocks.
Now scientists have discovered that elements within the volcanic material reacted with sea water to strengthen the construction.
[...] This new study says the scientists found significant amounts of tobermorite growing through the fabric of the concrete, with a related, porous mineral called phillipsite.
The researchers say that the long-term exposure to sea water helped these crystals to keep on growing over time, reinforcing the concrete and preventing cracks from developing.
Source: BBC News
American Mineralogist DOI: 10.2138/am-2017-5993CCBY
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2017, @11:44AM (12 children)
... did they knew sea water would have this effect at the time?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2017, @12:05PM (10 children)
According to this earlier article, https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=15/07/12/1356242 [soylentnews.org] Roman concrete was used in other places around the Mediterranean, with raw materials shipped from Italy, so it was known to be a good material.
I also posted this story (shortly after takyon) and included that SN link. I'm slightly surprised that our editor(s) didn't pull from both submissions and/or recognize that it was posted twice?
There have been many attempts to understand why Roman concrete is so durable. The current story talks about the chemistry in sea water, but other structures not in sea water also survive including public buildings and aqueducts. I don't think that this recent analysis is the final word on this potentially useful material.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 05 2017, @01:41PM (3 children)
I don't think that Roman concrete on land grew these crystals. The claim here is that the crystals grew over time in sea water, constantly strengthening the structure. I don't see a similar claim for either dry structures, or structures surrounded by fresh water.
Obviously, Roman concrete was damned good, and the Romans understood the importance of the volcanic ash. But, there is no reason (yet, at least) to think that they knew the concrete placed in seawater would grow stronger with time.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2017, @02:27PM (2 children)
Are you just making stuff up? Here is the second sentence of TFA:
http://ammin.geoscienceworld.org/content/102/7/1435 [geoscienceworld.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 05 2017, @02:38PM
My bad. I read TFS, and went with various articles I've read in the past. I've not read Pliny's quote before.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2017, @07:57PM
He is Runaway1956, the answer is, "yes". And he does not even know who Pliny was, which is why he has to make stuff up, because he "thinks" without reading.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 05 2017, @03:06PM (5 children)
My guess is that an ed was confused by us using the exact same headline. I glanced at your sub and it did look better.
Maybe this concrete will revive the "seasteading" concept.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2017, @06:44PM (4 children)
https://seasteading.org [seasteading.org] or https://forum.seasteading.org [seasteading.org] - Apparently Thiel himself no longer believes in the org/site, forums still have lots of dreamers though!
vivalarevolucion.i2p/#arc @ IRC2P - Less ambitious project that has been hovering around the darknet for a few years now.
There are three big problems involved:
1. All the seasteading.org stuff is VERY libertarian leaning, in the sense of a 'land-building ponzi scheme' (not altogether different from Liberland, if it was treated as more than a publicity stunt for a mediocre Czech politician.)
2. Financing. The ideas being promoted on seasteading.org all center around luxury housing, rather than starting with a solid, but relatively cheap floating foundation and low cost infrastructure and building to luxury housing as infrastructure and financing allows.
3. Legal issues surrounding territoriality, international trade laws/bans, laws regarding flagless/stateless vessels (see UNICLOS), and other requirements to be considered an independent political entity.
All of which are resolvable, but only if enough serious people band together to do the financing, politicking, engineering, and boots on the ground work to make it happen. It has been almost 5 years since I started following all of this, and basically nothing new has happening in all that time. Between Geo-polymer formulas, Bio-rock accretion, and moderately cheap and ubiquitous renewable energy equipment, it is entirely possible today to reach the needed level of mechanical and electrical resilience to live 24/7 on the high seas, given selection of location(s) with a low probability of dangerous tropical weather patterns.
The real question is: Who will get everything together to do it first? And will it be a singular wealthy person's effort, a cabal no better than what we already have, or a collective group effort that makes it happen?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 05 2017, @06:53PM (1 child)
Do I have to eat fish on the sustainable seastead?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2017, @07:33PM
Between aeroponics, hydroponics, greenhouse growing (needed for salt intolerant plants to avoid salt spray/sea mist, unless you either have a shore buffer, or are 100+ feet above sealevel), and salt tolerant crop species, you can grow pretty much anything you want without relying on seafood. However, if you want meat products that are not from the sea, you would need to grow enough grain crop to support them, plus any necessary supplemental minerals needed for their long term health. For instance, calcium for chickens and the production of sturdy egg shells. From there it is just a matter of how much of the year you can grow plants and the preservation techniques employed to ensure sufficient year round supplies.
There is also always the possibility of trading fish for food you actually want :)
Also as a fix to the grandparent: I2P's default addressbook doesn't link to vivalarevolucion.i2p, inr.i2p (the default addressbook for i2pd) however DOES.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday July 05 2017, @08:17PM (1 child)
But on the plus side, they do allow certain pets. To be specific, white, longhair cats exclusively.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 05 2017, @09:58PM
I assumed they were white longhaired monkeys :)
(Score: 4, Informative) by EvilSS on Wednesday July 05 2017, @02:04PM
https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2013/06/04/roman-concrete/ [lbl.gov] (Thanks to a number6 for the link in another comment)