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Microsoft founder Bill Gates has called on Europe to stop demonstrating generosity towards asylum seekers to avoid an overwhelming migrant influx. He also advises European states to make Africans' way to the continent much more difficult.
During an interview Germany's Welt am Sonntag, Gates, one of the richest people on the planet, warned of the grave consequences of exceeding generosity towards refugees coming to Europe, whose numbers would only rise unless something is done.
"On the one hand you want to demonstrate generosity and take in refugees, but the more generous you are, the more word gets around about this – which in turn motivates more people to leave Africa," Gates said.
While Germany has been one of the pioneers of the open door policy, it cannot "take in the huge, massive number of people who are wanting to make their way to Europe." Thus Gates advised European nations to take action in order to make it "more difficult for Africans to reach the continent via the current transit routes."
Source: https://www.rt.com/news/395356-migrants-overwhelm-europe-gates/
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Lagg on Wednesday July 12 2017, @10:53PM (21 children)
Oh do fuck off you self-assured little whore of a man. There's really nothing worse than someone who's bought and doesn't know it. You know damn well you don't look at any of those sites. I don't have to even look at news sites because whorish consumers of them will always make sure the items end up in my feed that I have to cross reference when it looks immediately fucky and go "oh, okay, this was total spin". Also, the BBC and co. don't use basic manipulation and misinformation tactics that I've seen used in SEO by corporations trying to push a lie filled agenda. And I cannot believe people don't notice that either.
And no the internet will not help you if you're willing to buy into the scurry boogeymans summarized as The Left(TM). But yes it does help me, because I can see through lies in this new era of spin. You buy into it with enthusiasm. As is quite clear by the fact that you use other state propaganda as an excuse.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @11:06PM (6 children)
OH NOES! jmorris has been nailed!!!
I knew we should not have let jmorris immigrate to this site. If only he had tried to succeed in his native website.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Wednesday July 12 2017, @11:29PM (5 children)
Oh please, jmorris' problem if he doesn't know what to expect from me just like I know what to expect from his posts by this point.
This is also what pisses me off to no end. People with generally thick skin utterly fail to understand the concept of spreading rot. This is the only thing I can come up with when I read responses like this. I claim nothing but ignorance on how the human brain works but still the concept that people can be fooled repeatedly by recycled techniques is bewildering. This is the same shit the fentanyl manufacturers do even. The ability for people to pass off RT like it's in the same vein as the other places is astounding. Can I remind people that they propagate a total hoax of a battle suit by Star Wars SEO and passed this off as real [snopes.com] in a dick move way most tabloids wouldn't touch.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @11:47PM (1 child)
If you don't like RT, you can read the interview in the other link provided, from an accepted Western MSM source.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday July 13 2017, @12:01AM
Oh I loathe RT, its pre-election readership, its staff and especially its masters. Oh and the complacent citizenry that allows it to exist and revels in it who use terms I don't even understand like "Western MSM". Which is why I will continue to note their utter failure at journalistic integrity and incredible lack of credibility even by tabloid standards. Every time I see it. From the same recurring editors that fucking know better.
I can already guess what Gates' actual opinion is based on past articles, and it's not as simple or stupid as presented. It's a practical disease science based one and one of economy. So personally speaking: Ain't a thang. Sorry to those of you that have to choose between the site ran by people who like being fisted by Putin versus the random german one with a paywall. :D
Oh and I just discovered a primary translation source for this was Breitbart. I'm sure they have no agenda. They seem like great guys. Not people trying to sell ugly trinkets to trailer trash.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @11:57PM (2 children)
Just look at this story:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-iceberg-breaks-free-of-larsen-c-ice-shelf [theguardian.com]
They actually include multiple interviews with scientists saying "they looked into it and as far as they can tell the iceberg is not related to climate change", yet it ends with something about Paris climate accords. This is the real nature of fake news.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 13 2017, @12:29AM (1 child)
from your link (bracketed text in original):
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 13 2017, @02:10AM
And then read the next sentence where they say "it was looked into but no that explanation doesn't fit".
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 13 2017, @12:51AM (3 children)
Dude, chill out. Everyone's views on immigration are more complex than is commonly expressed in a tabloid article or SN comment, perhaps even jmorris
The rule of law in classical liberalism enables social liberalism; yin and yang. The mass importation of fighting age, male, muslim migrants into Europe will end badly. Anybody denying this is a complete imbecile. Not only should recent arrivals be sent home but George Soros should be paying for it. Every last cent!
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday July 13 2017, @01:15AM (2 children)
My issues are based on the fact that RT is a tool of the state and disease of the mind spreads far. RT and co. are the people hackers are supposed to fight and hate. Cyberpunk is befalling us all without the benefit of the cool aesthetic and people are fine with it. Is it not a sign of intentionally poisoned discourse on a large scale that what was in your head was fighting age muslims - and what popped into mine upon seeing Gates' comments were things like Africans and Mexicans? Which I am going to suspect was on his mind too because the former is one of the climbing "demographics" (for lack of better word).
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 13 2017, @04:57AM (1 child)
And your point is?
(Hint: All 'media outlets' are tools of the state, one way or the other, and their output has to be 'read' with whatever particular 'spin' they're known for, it doesn't matter what 'colours' the state flies, the state is the state...your Washington bureaucrat has more in common with a Moscow apparatchik...sorry, counterpart than he has with any mere US plebeian...sorry, citizen)
Really? WTF has code to do with this?
Oh, FFS! 'Cyberpunk', those sort of 'hackers'...talk about gullible and naive...
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday July 13 2017, @06:03AM
You seem to have misplaced your ADHD medication for as much sense as this post makes to me. But no, there are hackers of all kinds, shapes and interests. Code is one. And the general tendency to loathe shit like this and even specific affiliation is something well noted as a common attribute [catb.org]. Thank you for proving my point about something in the spirit of it having been lost though. :D
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday July 13 2017, @02:53AM (6 children)
I can think of a few things that are worse. But I think what annoys me most about your line of reasoning is that it's bragging about your advertised price tag - like we'd care enough to pay. While I can see occasional advantages to viewing human interactions in terms of markets, maybe it's not such a good idea to exclusively do so. Nor do I get the same tingle from telling others how their subpar news sources make them inferior humans and corporate tools.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday July 13 2017, @03:17AM (5 children)
You shouldn't make that assumption because as is implied - everyone is bought. But I'm safely bought by my own ego and I guarantee you that any sort of bitching, ranting, name calling and deserved labeling of whores I use. Will result in better results for the world and my own mental health than allowing propaganda pushing entities to go unaccounted for in my conscience even if never read or noticed. At worst, I certainly won't mislead people on what my true thoughts are will I? But by all means be annoyed at me for calling out state propaganda as itself and calling people who recognize this better than I do while still consuming it complacent whores. Don't be annoyed at the complacency and misinformation itself.
Anyway, I have no expectation from people beyond personal responsibility. It won't harm me if people don't want to have it. I just get to bitch more, gain my 15 minutes of satisfaction, everyone forgets and life goes on. Rinse & Repeat. I mean I'll be long dead by the time this sort of conditioning actually has a predictable effect on society. No reason to really worry about it right?
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 13 2017, @03:57AM (4 children)
Which is quite a useless observation to make. What is obtained in return for this "bought"? Are you someone's slave (you know as the word actually means, not some ridiculously watered down meaning like "wage slave"), forced to do the whims of some master, no matter how base or cruel they may be?
Reminds me of buying orange juice. "The fool! For this pittance of money, I have quenched my monstrous thirst." Meanwhile the other guy is thinking "Yet another sucker buying overpriced fruit juice. Cha-ching." Each one has "bought" the other and spun it up into a sordid tale of victory over the gullible. But it's a drink and a little bit of money changing hands. Nobody gets a slave for life.
To return to the RT example, they sell a few eyeballs to a few advertisers. Maybe some business or the Russian government gets to plant some propaganda with moderate success. What's missing here is a discussion of the effectiveness of the approach, particularly when you get a bunch of parties with conflicting interests all pushing their own narratives. The exercise is no doubt advantageous to the parties who run it, but where's the evidence that it's running our lives rather than merely being an influence? Or is that merely another narrative that's kicking around and which you've happened to buy into?
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday July 13 2017, @04:27AM (3 children)
No my remark goes along with what you're thinking I assure you. Look at how I approach discussion. I just take no issue with acknowledging it because I'm honestly a lot more personable(?) than I was two years ago.
In terms of why places and technique like RT's bother me and creep me out is they do work. That CERN narrative was known and didn't die quickly. The US government will inevitably respond to the star wars suit. That's just the recent examples. These pieces make it to the outside world and my token crazy uncle is an instance of it. What "fake news" connotates and triggers currently is a direct result of propaganda distributed via RT and was successful in that they twisted it into a convenient power word to talk about the very thing exposing their nonsense in the first place. For a less direct example (in that I don't think he is smart enough for government work) Alex Jones made popular the claim that Michelle Obama is a man. Or at least made it popular with aforementioned uncle. Who is probably in the target audience for Trump.
I'm not even sure I can blame him for it either because his sources are other people. He thinks this shit is organic theory. Just like people thought other bullshit [wikipedia.org] was organic. It's a real thing and though my way of going about expressing my distaste with it is not graceful and unlikable. It's still something with prior art and not just a matter of opinion. If this sort of manipulation was possible pre-internet why should it be any less so now? Conflicting narratives don't really mean much. The goal isn't necessarily supporting any one narrative, it's isolation by what I can only call noise saturation. Isolation and chaos is their MO.
For the record, I know how this sounds. But fact is I didn't buy that Russia was still up to this shit until I saw recent concerning signs. You'll note by a journal timestamp that I did not in fact start taking the extent of the manipulation seriously until recently. But this isn't the normal corporate bot engagement crap that is common currently.
Oh and per that post by those horrible fucks at Gab - RT knows what it's doing when it reports on things. They know they don't have to try to imply things because if they mess with wording well enough people will come up with their own bizarre ideas. Look at how far that post and its comments were from Gates rather simple message of "don't let everyone get sick and die because of moral quarrels".
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 13 2017, @05:00AM (2 children)
Their head of state is former KGB. Of course, they're up to this. I just don't buy that it's as effective as people seem to think it is.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday July 13 2017, @05:56AM (1 child)
Well I suppose I didn't buy it more because it would mean Putin's capacity to hold a grudge is absurd. Anyway, the effectiveness has been historically proven. It's just that the nature of it puts people in a position where doubt is so common that the truth slips through the cracks. You're entirely correct if you think it's sloppy almost-incompetent throwing shit at the wall because that is basically what they're doing to see what happens.
Is it more effective if it points people on a particular narrative or because it fatigues them into not seeing facts? I have reason to suspect the Russian people - and I mean a big ol' chunk of them - are well aware of how the news works there. But they're so fatigued by it that nothing can be assumed to be true. Which is why what I'm seeing now is frustrating to no end. There are compelling arguments [newsweek.com] for this.
Lower level effects: Try reading anything whatsoever on twitter - even harmless news posts. The bot push was more successful than even they expected. Because they underestimated the ability for Americans to pick up a flag and run with it if someone does it first. It might seem inconsequential now that I can't even bother reading twitter post threads. But precedent starts somewhere. And it's a truly ugly (but familiar) way of stopping dissent. Additionally I feel like an alien for how far apart people's current definition of "liberal", "leftist" and "democrat" are compared to mine and are actively being used to describe character. It's commie hysteria all over again. All of this freaks me out because I only missed 6-9 months of 2016 due to family issues. That's efficient public opinion forming right there.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 13 2017, @08:55PM
Absurd? Not seeing it myself. Seems a straightforward case of tit-for-tat as the scenario of alleged Russian interference is presented. Clinton pushed against Russian interests when she was Secretary of State, and received payback when she is running for president.
What does "proof" mean here? Let us recall that Clinton ran a remarkably weak campaign despite spending almost double the money of the Trump campaign. Meanwhile zillions of actors knew of how to game Twitter (for example, I read of a climate change bot back in 2010 that replied to climate skeptic tweets and a smart phone app that could generate climate change talking points on demand and even tweet them). And of course, there's the huge mass of people who tweet and such. The Russians wouldn't have been acting in a vacuum, but in a very crowded environment.
We have to ask why Russian efforts are supposedly more successful than other efforts? And in particular, did it really happen as claimed? I'm just not seeing it.
Twitter has always been crap for discussion. I don't see this alleged difference between then and now.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by acid andy on Thursday July 13 2017, @10:52AM (2 children)
I honestly can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm or not. jmorris certainly spouts more than his fair share of vile crap but for once the guy had a point. All news has a bias. Mainstream media live in their own echo chambers. They all distort facts by omissions and cherry picking and sometimes lies or misrepresentations of the facts that amount to lies. If you want to get any kind of approximation of the truth all you can do is combine and cross reference information from as many sources as possible. If the facts presented by a particular source make you uncomfortable just think for a minute and make sure that's not due to your own biases. Apply the scientific method.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday July 13 2017, @11:48AM (1 child)
Read their articles and [rt.com] point me to the one in the same vein [rt.com] on the BBC. You're going to be searching for a while. I make no defense whatsoever for any outlets but if you're going to make the really stupid assumption that I favor any of them including the BBC because I picked one out of a comparison I might as well put at least a representative example of what I'm talking about.
I do apply the scientific by doing my own research. Hence, I don't need to read any news besides as a jumping off point. This is also why I'm not overexposed to the point that I can't recognize REALLY obvious bullshit when I smell it. Apparently everyone that buys into RT's crap can't. Because other places not being objective means RT is on the same level of non-objective right? Or are you seeing this fear mongering anti-science bullshit that includes bible quotes on the same level as the talking heads on BBC and co.? Am I the one with the biases?
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 13 2017, @01:42PM
Good man. So what were Bill Gates's thoughts on the immigration issue when you interviewed him? I'd like to cross reference it with what I'll ask him in my own interview next week.