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posted by martyb on Saturday July 15 2017, @03:29PM   Printer-friendly
from the Stockholm-Syndrome dept.

I saw an story in Slate about stagnant wages in an economy that is growing otherwise:

There's a disturbance in the force of the U.S. economy. An airline canceled flights because it couldn't find enough pilots to steer them. Despite high demand, homebuilders in Colorado are throttling back activity because they can't find the workers to erect frames. Farmers in Alabama are fretting that crops may rot in the ground for a lack of workers to bring in the harvest.

[...] There are a whopping 5.7 million job openings (well over twice the level of eight years ago). Meanwhile, baby boomers are aging out of the workforce at a rapid clip and Mexicans, many of whom crossed the border to work, have been leaving the U.S. for years. The demand for workers is high.

Given these conditions, wages should be rising sharply. But look at this chart from the Atlanta Federal Reserve: They haven't been, and they're not. … Last week, the New York Times featured a Columbus, Ohio, cleaning company owner mystified that he couldn't find applicants for his $9.25-per-hour jobs ("I sometimes wish there was actually a higher unemployment rate," he actually said) and a Nebraska roofer who couldn't figure out why nobody applied for the $17-an-hour jobs she was offering. "The pay is fair," she said.

Actually, if not a single person applies for your job, the pay probably isn't fair. But that's where America remains stubbornly stuck: Employers won't pay enough, and workers either won't or can't demand more. There are likely a lot of reasons, but the biggest, or least most fixable, may be psychological: From an economic perspective, both sides of the hiring market should have the power to increase overall wages in the current climate—but they aren't.

[...] There could be a skills gap in which the workers out there simply don't have the training necessary to fill the open jobs. Or it could be that, as Binyamin Appelbaum of the New York Times ventured on Twitter, that "a lot of American businesses have lost the muscle memory of how to compete for workers." That is to say, they have literally forgotten the words to use, and the tools to deploy, when workers aren't lining up in droves to fill their positions.

I also found this in the Daily Caller. It discusses the shortage of H2B workers this year. Most folks here know about H1B workers... H2B is program for low skill seasonal workers which has seen rule changes and cuts this year.

Businesses in Bar Harbor, Maine are turning to locals to make up for a shortage of foreign guest workers that normally fill summer jobs in the bustling seaside resort town.
Because the H-2B visa program has already reached its annual quota, Bar Harbor's hotels, restaurants and shops can't bring in any more foreign workers for the rest of the busy summer tourist season.

[...] The shortage is so acute that companies are sweetening incentives for local workers. Searchfield says some businesses are offering flexible schedules that might appeal to older workers who might be interested in working only a day or two each week. And other companies have gone so far as to offer higher wages to entice locals.

Imagine that.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by lgsoynews on Saturday July 15 2017, @03:58PM (21 children)

    by lgsoynews (1235) on Saturday July 15 2017, @03:58PM (#539569)

    Baby-boomers massive retirement waves have been predicted a long time ago, I learned about it in high-school in the 80s.

    But the real issue is certainly the race to the bottom that so many companies are pushing. Combine the lack of fair wages, no raises (diminishing buying power) with treating the workers like shit, add the movement toward the "gig" economy (which is mostly another way to abuse workers) and you get a nasty work environment. And it's not limited to the least qualified jobs either.

    Of course, consumers & by extension companies are all guilty of this race to the bottom (always cheaper!).

    I work in -big- computer projects, and despite working on super sensitive projects (the crown jewels) in telecom companies, they still manage to replace their competent workers with cheap beginners who CANNOT handle the complexities involved. I leave the disastrous results to your imagination. (I'm french, but I know that this trend goes everywhere.)

    In the end, for some people, it's starting to be difficult to find a job that brings enough money to be worth it. Example: a friend of mine went to work for an hotel in some islands last year, it was super hard work (she called it slavery). She only stayed 2 months (temporary help for the rush season), but the money she brought back was barely enough to cover the cost of the babysitter for her -much younger- sister for the same period... For her, to justify working -especially hard work like this one-, she needs to earn enough to cover the expenses plus a healthy sum, or she's better off babysitting herself (obviously).

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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Geezer on Saturday July 15 2017, @04:45PM (20 children)

    by Geezer (511) on Saturday July 15 2017, @04:45PM (#539575)

    Retired (disabled) boomer EE here.

    I advised my son to skip e-school (a BSEE takes like, what? 50 years to pay off debt now?) and just go military. High probability of survival in rear echelons, nice benefits, and guaranteed retirement.

    Smart kids who can't pay cash for college should say fuck the banks and the race-to-bottom employment market and go Navy or Chair Force for the tech training and easy life.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @05:05PM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @05:05PM (#539581)

      Doctors practicing statistical medicine.

      Disabled is such a trigger word these days.

      • (Score: 5, Touché) by Geezer on Saturday July 15 2017, @07:09PM (9 children)

        by Geezer (511) on Saturday July 15 2017, @07:09PM (#539626)

        Stage 4 cancer isn't a statistic, fuckwit. Worms like you make me wish it was contagious.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @08:23PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @08:23PM (#539641)

          they did not say cancer anywhere in their post. where did you get that?

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Geezer on Saturday July 15 2017, @10:57PM (3 children)

            by Geezer (511) on Saturday July 15 2017, @10:57PM (#539677)

            I have cancer. The fuckwit's post dismissed my disability as triggered medical stat gaming. Understand now???

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @09:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @09:34PM (#539660)

          That's why I invoked the practicing of statistical medicine. Just because your case may or may not be legitimate, does not imply that disabled is not a trigger word.

          An estimated 48.9 million people, or 19.4% of the non-institutionalized civilians, have a disability. An estimated 24.1 million people have a severe disability. An estimated 34.2 million people, or 17.5%, have a functional limitation.
          NSIP - Basic Facts: People with Disabilities
          www.serviceandinclusion.org/index.php?page=basic

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @09:43PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @09:43PM (#539663)

          Such hostility. Unfortunately for you, cancer is contagious, spreads through DNA. So you can teach your offspring how to collect disability benefits so that they can be covered under Medicare when they are diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, just like you.

          Now that is a +5 touche comment.

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Geezer on Saturday July 15 2017, @11:01PM

            by Geezer (511) on Saturday July 15 2017, @11:01PM (#539680)

            Here's a +10: I fucked your mom 9 months before your birthday while your dad was in prison. Have a nice cancer. :)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @11:00PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 15 2017, @11:00PM (#539679)

          It is interesting that AC cited disability as a 'trigger' word in a condescending manner, and yet was triggered by it.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday July 15 2017, @09:11PM (2 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday July 15 2017, @09:11PM (#539656)

      The armed services are a good deal, until the Chair Force puts you on active patrol where the flak is flying.

      Risk / benefit - it's an equation that plays out in investment, career choice, and just about everything else of significance in life - go for the lowest quotient you can tolerate.

      I couldn't tolerate saying "yes, Sir!" to f-ing washout idiots who are looking for payback of all the abuse visited on their sorry asses on the way to their miserable inductee training posts. Other than that, the military would have been a good deal for me, too.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday July 16 2017, @12:38AM (1 child)

        by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 16 2017, @12:38AM (#539710) Journal

        Do something to get discharged after getting college paid by the military?

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday July 16 2017, @03:53AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday July 16 2017, @03:53AM (#539783)

          Do something to get discharged after getting college paid by the military?

          Do you think this is an unusually clever idea, something so unique that the armed services hasn't encountered a recruit yet who tried it? They've had your number for 200+ years, son, and if you think this is a good idea, they've figured out a way to convince you that it is more painful this way than to do what they want you to do... not that a recruiter will tell you any traps like that exist, but they most assuredly do.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @03:09AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @03:09AM (#539761)

      Former Navy enliayed. cs grad now. I can believe you told your kid to be enlisted instead of finding a cheap state school. Jesus Christ you're an idiot.

      Survivability? Some places have over 50% other than honorable discharge rate. Motherfuckers get mental problems just being denied comforts like sleep in favor of stupid chores.

      My time in the Navy made computer science look like a walk in the park
      Pay for his college you cheap faggot

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 16 2017, @07:34PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 16 2017, @07:34PM (#539983) Journal

      LOL - "Chair Force". Easy life, huh? Well, I have to admit that a lot of the Navy has an easy life. The fleet, not so much.

    • (Score: 1) by i286NiNJA on Monday July 17 2017, @06:46PM (3 children)

      by i286NiNJA (2768) on Monday July 17 2017, @06:46PM (#540471)

      The most advanced technical training available to your kid as a new guy in the military will be laughably sloppy and the attrition rates in their programs are insanely high. I'm sure he'll thank you when he finally gets done with 6 years of painting, cutting grass with scissors, and sweeping sand... and only comes out of it deaf, with bad knees, and arthritic hands. Thankfully he enjoyed the safety afforded to "rear echelon" military

      Once he returns to the civilian world he will discover that most of the jobs available to him are high-paid helpdesk positions mostly related to his security clearance. He will work underneath an officer, former officer, or degreed civilian for most of his life.. they will sneer down their noses at him every day even as his pay creeps up, 70k, 80k, 120k!!! Going into his soul crushing job.. until one day he has medical bills, or a crazy spouse, or decides to smoke a joint and loses his security clearance.

      From there he will will get to enjoy being helpdesk maybe even helpdesk manager!! For the rest of his life. Now with no clearance jobs available to him his pay will tap out at even less than he made at his first real job :(

      Or you could encourage him to go to a community college that has a transfer agreement with a reasonably priced state college (They exist if you bother to do some comparison shopping) and pay for it all with FASFA and grants. Mentioning that you're dying of cancer on his grant requests will quickly move him to the top of the candidate list)

      He will probably graduate with somewhere between 0 and 10k of debt. Certainly a small price to pay for avoiding the possibility of getting stuck with 50, 60, or 100 hour workweeks for months or years.

      THIS IS MILITARY LIFE:
      Imagine that you have a job as an electrical technician (NOT ENGINEER) with a strict dress code and bosses who takes credit for all your work and can abuse you with near impunity. Now imagine that at the end of every work day you put in a few hours a week as your part time position as a school janitor. Except your janitor boss is in a sexless marriage with a hippo who sits at home every day whittling away his hard earned money on cheesy poofs and ultra-premium cable packages so the only happiness in his life is when he inspects your work by cramming a q-tip into small cracks and crevices so he can wave it in your face and call you an idiot and a loser.

      Imagine this is your life and it happens every day.. each week you are promised a weekend or maybe just a sunday. Either by your own mistakes or at the whim of any of your 10 bosses your weekend and ability to take vacation will disappear in favor of extra cleaning or extra training. There is no way off this treadmill each new day comes and the only way to stop it might be to jump off the roof or admit to a doctor you're slowly going insane and get branded with a scarlet letter for the rest of your life.

      Then there is the ever looming specter of a NJP. Every month you'll see some friend or acquaintance of yours getting separated from the military. Superstars, shitbags, and everyone in between will be axed. Of course they'll axe slightly more shitbags but with a little bad luck anyone's career can be terminated at any time. It helps keep everyone terrified and on their toes to know that everything they've worked for their entire lives could go down the shitter by lunchtime if they irritate the wrong person or even if one of their own friends needs to throw someone under the bus to save their own skin.

      I have a feeling you've kind of made your mind up. Sending your kid off to the military with no idea what it actually means might be a good way to tie up a whole lot of loose ends before you die. Go ahead and look at some veterans groups on facebook. Go ahead and post a resume as a recently discharged IT3 vs a recently gradated tech major. Check out different markets and the differences in corporate culture between the military offers and the BSEE or BCSC guy.
      Google "Nobody respects my tech degree" vs "nobody respects my military experience" and compare the sorts of complaints you hear folks making.

      I knew a guy who went in the airforce and because he knew COBOL they made him an enlisted developer and he worked on MULTICS. Awesome! He turned that into an amazing career and got to work on so many cool things. I promise you nothing like that exists anymore, the best you might get in the military is some satcom stuff or one of their laughably terrible diploma-mill quality infosec programs... either one would require an extended commitment and you're still going to be a janitor.

      • (Score: 2) by Geezer on Tuesday July 18 2017, @04:31PM (2 children)

        by Geezer (511) on Tuesday July 18 2017, @04:31PM (#541002)

        Being a veteran myself, my experience was considerably different.

        • (Score: 1) by i286NiNJA on Thursday July 20 2017, @04:44PM (1 child)

          by i286NiNJA (2768) on Thursday July 20 2017, @04:44PM (#541971)

          Maybe things are worse now. Or maybe you got lucky and got one of those mythical good commands that everyone told me I should re-enlist for. Electronics training in the military is composed of NIDA electronics trainers and a powerpoint-like slides. It's a total joke you could do the same thing at home for under $200. If you think that trash is good enough to build a career off of just oh wow.

          It was my experience that the computer folks in the military were almost all idiots (They talked about MCSE like it was the mark of a god). Like I said I knew a guy who got to work on multics in his early 20s as an enlisted airman.. a fantastic opportunity. He's probably your age. I promise you nothing like that exists anymore any work like that is now done by officers or contractors.

          At least have your kid go through college and THEN go in the military so they can pay him more and pay off all his student loans and treat him with respect. What the fuck is the point in going in enlisted so they can jerk you around for 4 years and pay you shit for it. Every year congress reduces the GI bill benefits just a little more... the sooner your kid goes to college the less they can rip him off. There is literally no point in going in enlisted unless you're too stupid to graduate college unless you're there strictly to blow shit up. All of the technical MOS jobs are a complete fucking waste of time when compared to college+commission the "better" ones like nuclear electronics technician are actually much harder than most STEM degrees and have sky high suicide rates that start in school and continue in the fleet. Why? Then you get out and your "good training" and days awake working on a nuclear reactor count for nothing unless you're going to work in a nuclear power plant... the 2nd option being some random clearance job and then you find after that you find despite being much harder nobody seems to respect your experience more than a STEM degree.

          Here in seattle I see guys with coding bootcamps or community college certificates who are starting out at 50k... sure rent is expensive here but the cheap studios are still nicer than the barracks or do you think a nightly symphony of fapping will help him build character? Sitting there in the dark listening to 50 guys beat off while all his college buddies are somewhere drinking beer and banging sorority girls.. jeesh.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Geezer on Thursday July 20 2017, @08:07PM

            by Geezer (511) on Thursday July 20 2017, @08:07PM (#542042)

            I was in the nuclear propulsion program, which I leveraged into a civilian nuclear test engineer gig at Mare Island. Yeah, lots of guys "nuked out" and I spent my whole tour floating around in a gray dumpster, but it was worth it. And I never, ever had any college debt, nor have I ever flipped a burger except on my own patio.

            There are no perfect choices, just choices.