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Algebra is one of the biggest hurdles to getting a high school or college degree — particularly for students of color and first-generation undergrads.
It is also the single most failed course in community colleges across the country. So if you're not a STEM major (science, technology, engineering, math), why even study algebra?
That's the argument Eloy Ortiz Oakley, chancellor of the California community college system, made today in an interview with NPR's Robert Siegel.
At American community colleges, 60 percent of those enrolled are required to take at least one math course. Most — nearly 80 percent — never complete that requirement.
Oakley is among a growing number of educators who view intermediate algebra as an obstacle to students obtaining their credentials — particularly in fields that require no higher level math skills.
Their thinking has led to initiatives like Community College Pathways, which strays away from abstract algebra to engage students in real-world math applications.
-- submitted from IRC
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Saturday July 22 2017, @06:30PM (8 children)
It can also be argued that a big part of the global economy currently hinges on leveraged derivative contracts which are well beyond the understanding of anyone who hasn't made a specific study of them. We are rapidly working our way into a scenario where a handful of programmers are going to set loose a handful of algorithms that will trade more than the annual GDP every day in a complicated dance that anyone outside the implementation team will have a vague understanding, at best, of what's really going on - this includes the owners of the firms who profit (and lose) based on the success (and failure) of their algorithmic quants' implementations.
How many people understand, really understand not just trade sound-bites from CNN, global issues like energy supply, greenhouse gases, distribution of fresh water, or what it takes for their vehicle that they depend on every day to start and move?
Yeah, the financial industry pushed a bunch of predatory loans on a bunch of rubes who either didn't understand exponential growth, or more likely just didn't care - like, what's gonna happen? they gonna put everyone in jail when they don't pay back their mortgages? Really?
So, yes: education good.
Also yes: equivalent opportunity for all persons, both capable and incapable of skill X. If you can't do X, then you can't have a job that requires X - that's easy. X should never be made part of a "core curriculum" that basically bars people from the bulk of meaningful employment including things that have no need of X whatsoever.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday July 22 2017, @07:09PM (6 children)
If you can't do basic algebra you're probably only good for menial labor. I can't think of any professional level job that doesn't require algebra for propper planning.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Saturday July 22 2017, @09:35PM (5 children)
So, you've obviously never gotten any insight into how management works.
There is actual value in management, even multi-layered management - the value is in communication and coordination. You can master algebra and it won't make you one bit better at communicating with people above and below you in the organization. I'd go so far as to say: those who are really good at maths are often less likely to be good at communication, particularly with people who aren't as good at maths.
I knew a fellow from the backwoods hills of Kentucky, 35 years old, couldn't read or write much more than his signature, algebra was far out of his league, but he had a talent for managing the types of crews who install big conveyor belt systems. He would travel around the country to the job-sites where these big conveyor belt installation projects were being installed and manage the labor... got him over $100K / year in takehome pay + benefits. Now, being from the backwoods hills of Kentucky, I think he just might have wrangled a High School diploma for himself back in the 1980s, 'cause without one of those, nobody would trust you to do a job like he was doing, and last I heard he's still doing that job 10 years later.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Sunday July 23 2017, @01:47AM (1 child)
Management requires basic algebra if you need to figure out how to efficiently allocate resources. I've been using it for production scheduling and all I'm managing are one CNC machine, one assistant, and myself. Anything less and you're just guessing. So I don't doubt that a lot of managers do get by without it, but then they're not doing their jobs as well as they could.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday July 23 2017, @02:33AM
All the fancy figuring in the world won't make a damn bit of difference when your crew doesn't show up, or doesn't follow instructions for what to do first, or doesn't do what the drawings tell them to do. Yes, you need people who can do all sorts of math and engineering to design a conveyor belt installation, but you also need grunt labor that will work without air conditioning moving heavy equipment, drilling concrete, and assembling heavy hardware. You need somebody who can effectively manage these people, not just fire them when they do it wrong, but actually get them to do it right, and that has about nothing to do with math and everything to do with effectively communicating between the people who do know the math and engineering and the people who execute the work. Algebra, and apparently 2nd grade reading, are entirely optional in that role.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 23 2017, @04:01PM (2 children)
"You can master algebra and it won't make you one bit better at communicating with people . . ."
Sorry, that's nonsense. If you have people working for you who communicate mathematical concepts, and you can't understand, that's a problem.
" . . . above and below you in the organization."
And, that is a problem, in and of itself. Management believes itself to be above all the riffraff who actually earn the company's money.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday July 23 2017, @09:13PM (1 child)
Like it or not, the world is organized in a bunch of pointy top pyramids, and the people at the top of those pyramids, largely, decide who gets to stay at the levels immediately below them. If you're an independent consultant, congratulations, you're now floating solo taking on tremendous additional risk for the privilege of "not having a boss," such risks include: lack of collective bargaining for things like healthcare insurance, regulations, laws and taxes affecting your industry, and laws affecting international competition for your business. If that's working for you, great - I did it for a while, but I really prefer the regular paycheck coming from one location instead of short unpredictable bursts of money coming from unpredictable locations.
So, I've worked with quite a number of bosses and underlings - my role has generally been "maths implementer" so, yeah, I try to "talk math" with people on the job, but - probably 90% of people I have worked with, both above and below, don't really get it, or if they do it's not really necessary for the conversation. The whole "strength in diversity" thing is really true, and many people are better at things outside the realm of math and/or science, and to have a successful business, you need all the skills, not just the ones you learn in school. Back at the independent consultant thing, to really pull that off well you have to be your own sales, accounting, billing, occasionally collections, marketing, legal, and a few other skills outside the actual job you perform for the client. Very few people are good at "all the things," which is one good thing (among so many bad ones) about larger companies where people can specialize in what they are good, or at least adequate, at and skate around the skills they are weak in.
If you marginalize too many people, you create a huge problem for society - and there are a LOT of people out there who never will get math, or spelling, or nuanced social skills, no matter how S L O W L Y A N D L O U D L Y you repeat it at them. There are many, many productive roles that sub-DaVinci level people can have in the workforce. One of the first things I think we should re-introduce to the schools system is the concept of developing peoples' strengths, rather than drilling them endlessly on their weaknesses.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 24 2017, @10:43PM
>Like it or not, the world is organized in a bunch of pointy top pyramids, and the people at the top of those pyramids, largely, decide who gets to stay at the levels immediately below them.
not if I can help it
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 22 2017, @08:25PM
> If you can't do X, then you can't have a job that requires X - that's easy.
Sounds like you are not familiar with the Peter Principle? http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peter-principle.asp [investopedia.com]
"The Peter Principle is an observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach the levels of their respective incompetence. The Peter Principle is based on the logical idea that competent employees will continue to be promoted, but at some point will be promoted into positions for which they are incompetent, and they will then remain in those positions because of the fact that they do not demonstrate any further competence that would get them recognized for additional promotion. According to the Peter Principle, every position in a given hierarchy will eventually be filled by employees who are incompetent to fulfill the job duties of their respective positions."