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posted by martyb on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:26PM   Printer-friendly
from the exported-jobs dept.

The World Socialist Web Site reports

[July 20], 338 workers completed their final shifts at the Carrier gas furnace factory in Indianapolis, Indiana. They were the first wave of 640 workers who will lose their jobs by December 22 at the plant, which President Trump claimed he "saved" through negotiations with Carrier's parent company, United Technologies (UTC).

"People knew Trump was full of crap", 13-year Carrier veteran Taj Longino told the World Socialist Web Site. "But they hung on to the hope because most were too young to retire or too old to get another job. Where are they going to go now? They're stuck in limbo and uncertainty", Longino said.

The fan coil department is being shut down and moved to Mexico, the worker said. "Counting the maintenance department, press operators, forklift drivers, and production line workers, maybe there will be 600 workers left, out of way more than 1,000. The other Carrier plant in northern Indiana is gone."

[...] The fate of the Carrier workers was exploited by both Trump and then-Democratic primary candidate Bernie Sanders after UTC announced plans to shut the plant and move production to Monterrey, Mexico where workers are paid $3.90 an hour. Both sought to divert anger away from the corporations and their relentless drive for profit by blaming "unfair trade" and Mexican workers for the loss of jobs.

Just ahead of his inauguration, Trump triumphantly announced that a deal had been reached with UTC that would keep the Carrier plant in Indianapolis running and save 1,100 jobs. He and Vice President Pence--the former governor of Indiana--celebrated the deal with United Steelworkers representatives at the plant on December 1. The agreement promised UTC incentives from both the federal and state governments of up to $7 million in exchange for UTC's promise to employ at least 1,069 people at the Indianapolis plant for 10 years. Additionally, the company promised to invest $16 million in the facility.

The deal did not represent a victory, Pyrrhic or otherwise, for Carrier workers, though. Only 730 of the 1,069 jobs that UTC vowed to maintain are in manufacture. The remainder are engineering and technical positions, which had never been slated for outsourcing in the first place. Moreover, the $16 million in plant expenditures would not go towards increasing the workforce of the Indianapolis plant. Greg Hayes, UTC's CEO, stated publicly in December that the money had been earmarked for increasing automation at the plant, flatly stating that this would result in fewer workers over time.

According to an AP story in US News & World Report:

Carrier announced last year that it would close the Indianapolis plant and cut about 1,400 production jobs in a move expected to save $65 million annually.

Trump repeatedly criticized Carrier's Mexico outsourcing plan. Weeks after Trump won the election, Carrier announced an agreement to spare about 800 jobs in Indianapolis.

About 600 jobs are still being eliminated.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @12:48AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @12:48AM (#545546)

    That's Communism, not Socialism. Socialism is when the "community" (usually the gov't) owns the means of production. It is the transition between the overthrow of Capitalism and the realization of Communism.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @01:44AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @01:44AM (#545564)

    Stop looking for definitions of Socialism among the nonsense of non-Socialists.

    You are reminding me of what's currently being played on the "country music" radio stations.
    Dale Watson[1] has called that "country music for people who don't like Country Music".

    [1] Dale has one of the best lines ever in a song: "I lie when I drink and I drink a lot".

    .
    the gov't) owns the means of production

    That's called State Capitalism.
    Thanks for playing.

    Communism

    After there is The collective ownership of the means of production by The Workers in lots of workplaces, natural monopolies (e.g. communications, water, natural gas, electricity) would come under the auspices of the gov't as a caretaker for The Workers.
    (There would be a tight feedback loop.)

    the overthrow of Capitalism

    You're still thinking in terms of Cold War propaganda.
    Capitalism can simply be out-competed by worker-owned co-ops.
    The Workers simply have to accept it as a possibility.

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @04:12AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @04:12AM (#545600)

      Cool! Let's build one! Where's yours? Can I join? What's the buy-in cost? I like this out-competing idea!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @06:25AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @06:25AM (#545634)

        You haven't started your own??
        You sound like a slacker.
        Why would I want you in my co-op?

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @06:50AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @06:50AM (#545640)

          Hey, you're the expert. I wouldn't want to risk getting it wrong and making everyone think it's a bad idea! Lead us, fearless leader, lead us! The proletariat demands it!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @10:03AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @10:03AM (#545695)

            We don't need any slackers.

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @02:33PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @02:33PM (#545770)

              Looks as if socialist productivity is invitation-only.

              Welp, guess it's back to capitalism, boys.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @09:45PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @09:45PM (#545991)

                You give up way too easily.
                You -may- make an effective Socialist one day (though I doubt it).
                In order to do that, you're going to have to get off your ass.
                Start by becoming more informed and less stupid.

                Now, you could start your own co-op.

                N.B. I'm guessing that, with your attitude of gimme-gimme-gimme, you will have problems finding people who want to associate with you.
                It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case among your current co-workers.

                You could look for -other- existing co-ops.
                Cleveland, Rochester, and Jackson, Mississippi are active crucibles.
                Milwaukee has a long history of Socialism.
                ...and the popularity of co-ops is spreading.

                ...but, again, the gimme-gimme-gimme attitude you exhibit is going to be a big hindrance for you.

                it's back to capitalism, boys

                It appears that you have a low level of social skills and zero leadership ability.
                I doubt anyone listens to anything you say.

                ...but, for those folks who want to be exploited employees, working to make someone else rich, then working for a Capitalist operation is the way to do that.

                -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday July 28 2017, @06:07PM (2 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 28 2017, @06:07PM (#545889) Journal

      the gov't) owns the means of production

      That's called State Capitalism.

      When you start adding prefix words to capitalism, you completely change the meaning so that it no longer has anything to do with capitalism, but is heavily implied to be capitalism for some reason. So why do certain flavors of communism and socialism get slid over to "state capitalism" and the rest doesn't? Why don't we have labor capitalism, society/community capitalism, and private capitalism (the latter would be the current meaning of capitalism)? Maybe corporate capitalism to indicate private capitalism that has formal limited liability mechanisms?

      Instead, it seems to be that a fair number of economic systems that OriginalOwner doesn't like get graced with the "Capitalism" honorific and those that he does like get graced with the "Socialism" honorific.

      Stop looking for definitions of Socialism among the nonsense of non-Socialists.

      Bottom line is that I just don't trust what you think "non-Socialists" are.

      I don't mind your beliefs . What I mind are these pointless semantics games that add nothing to the discussion.

      Maybe you should just have two categories: Goodism and Ungoodism? All the stuff you think is good falls in the first category and all the stuff you think is ungood goes in the second. Disagreement with you would, of course, be Ungoodist thoughtcrime and inherently wrong as a result. Very simple for the rest of us to keep up with; it solidly represents most of the semantics arguments you've provided for the past few years; and just think of all the keystrokes you'd save.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @09:59PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2017, @09:59PM (#545996)

        Last I heard he still doesn't like single member cooperatives (otherwise known as sole proprietors) because they might end up with someone becoming filthy stinking rich.

        Example: master electrician I know. Guy works well, specialised in DC for data centres and stuff like that. He's a flat-out millionaire. Not in a corporation, cooperative, anything like that. Every job's a contract for him, and he makes bank.

        Maybe he's an Evil Capitalist because he hires junior electricians when he has a big job? Hell if I know, at this point. Apparently gewg_ has a hate-on for employers, unless they're Mondragon hiring a bunch of people for less than their own members make as a base income...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 29 2017, @03:25AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 29 2017, @03:25AM (#546135)

          Citation needed

          single member cooperatives

          You'll need to specify how one cooperates with himself--or doesn't.
          Does this individual have Multiple Personality Disorder?
          Work in the word "collective" while you're at it.
          Meanwhile, I'll just go ahead and call what you do muddled "thinking".

          master electrician [...] hires junior electricians when he has a big job

          ...and he has no intention of ever making those people owners in the business.
          They are employees, not worker-owners.
          You are not describing a co-op.
          The word you're looking for is business.

          sole proprietor

          Exactly. The word you're looking for is entrepreneur.
          ...and, if he has outside investors who do no work within the company but expect an ongoing return, then it is also a Capitalist operation.

          .
          Excellent counter-example:
          This company is a worker-owned cooperative. [google.com]
          It started as a partnership of 2 workers and has expanded its worker-ownership. [pacificelectric.coop]

          THAT is a co-op.

          Just keep on being a flunky for some Capitalist, making him rich while he exploits you.
          As simple as the concept is, your closed mind will never grasp Socialism.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]