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from the next-up:-the-case-of-the-expanding-airline-passenger dept.
The 'Incredible Shrinking Airline Seat' Gets a U.S. Court Rebuke
If you think the government should do something about the cramped legroom on airplanes, you've got a friend in a federal court.
The U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C., on Friday ordered aviation regulators to consider setting minimum standards for the space airlines give passengers.
"This is the Case of the Incredible Shrinking Airline Seat," Judge Patricia Ann Millett wrote on behalf of the three-judge panel. "As many have no doubt noticed, aircraft seats and the spacing between them have been getting smaller and smaller, while American passengers have been growing in size."
The court found in favor of Flyers Rights, a nonprofit advocacy group, which had argued that steadily shrinking legroom and seat size created a safety hazard and the Federal Aviation Administration should impose new restrictions.
Additional coverage at Reuters and CNN
Opinion for the Court filed by Circuit Judge MILLETT.
(Score: 2) by ledow on Monday July 31 2017, @11:23AM (15 children)
While we're there, can we cut the safety announcement crap, too? And the enforced disturbances of the announcements.
I would suggest that people are much more likely to think clearly and logically in an emergency if:
- They didn't have stupid stuff to remember that could be indicated in the event of an emergency (e.g. doors) or better designed so that it wasn't necessary (e.g. MAKE the seatbelts work like car seatbelts, surely that's easier than telling people "these work differently", especially when it comes up on drills that everyone panics and tries to undo them like a car lap belt).
- They weren't subject to nonsense briefings that they are forced to listen to.
- They aren't panicked by talk of evacuating the plane, landing in water, etc.
- They were able to sleep through the flight without being woken up by adverts for drinks and perfume.
Along with this idea - that they would be able to sleep or sit comfortably for their journey.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Monday July 31 2017, @11:49AM (5 children)
the announcements are for the new flyers every time. As a pro' , I'm sure you can (now) just stick your headphones on a watch your tab/phone/computer/doze as might amuse you.
seatbelts (my guess) are NOT car seatbelts, because they can be removed easily by both occupant and external (rescuer!!!!) operator.
I'm not so bothered by seat size as I'm not to large, but having more reclining would be an improvement...
(Score: 2) by ledow on Monday July 31 2017, @12:23PM (4 children)
Nope.
I get told to remove the headphones for the announcement. We're not allowed to use tablets then either. Seems pretty standard on UK->Europe flights.
I fail to see how the seatbelts are any easier to open - you have to lift a flap central to the belt rather than push a button on the edge. If anything, you could make it so that you can open the buckle from the chair itself without having to put your hand in between the breasts and legs of an unconscious - folded over - patient to release their belt.
And every aircraft I've been on in the last ten years needs me to sit with my knees up, which is extremely uncomfortable. I'm only 5'10". There is no legroom, or any semblance of it. When your own car, even a Smart car, lets you stretch further - when you have to be seated in that upright position in order to see - there's a problem there. When it comes to relaxing on a plane 200 times the size, I'd expect not to feel like someone sitting in the middle of a child's play house.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Monday July 31 2017, @12:33PM (1 child)
I get told to remove the headphones for the announcement. We're not allowed to use tablets then either. Seems pretty standard on UK->Europe flights.
Ah, speaking of the USA. Your local conditions may vary...
On seatbelts the flap design can be opened with low manual or other limb dexterity. Buttons would be impossible, especially for large passengers.
I'm slightly taller, but again here in the USA there may be different spacing. Only a few planes are near my knees, and I suspect the inflight magazine may account for some of that...!!
Biz class has massive recline (of course), but it's not that much recline to feel comfortable.
I'll wager they had scientists find that extract transition...!
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday August 02 2017, @01:23AM
Every flight I've ever flown within the USA I've also been forced to remove headphones and disable electronics during the safety announcements. I don't doubt that you can get away with it, they won't necessarily see a small pair of earbuds twenty rows back (or they just don't care), but the FAA does recommend airlines prohibit the use of electronics (or even books or newspapers) during the safety briefing, and IME most airlines do enforce that.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday July 31 2017, @01:31PM
Can't heaaar you? what diiid yooouu say? ;-)
Just tell them your laptop contains acoustic 3D impedance microphone search array to enable you to heeaaarr anything. Then return to viewing the Rambo visual instruction on how to deal with the akbar thugs ;-)
Maybe some portable footstool can ease this? or support the feet?
Walk around now and then?
And watch out for deep vein thrombosis!
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @02:57PM
Oh boo hoo, 5 minutes of your time, gone forever.. whatsoever shall you do now???? What are you, 10?
(Score: 2) by theluggage on Monday July 31 2017, @12:25PM (4 children)
Its not just the annoyance: from the moment people walk into the airport the system is training people to ignore announcements and signs by continually bombarding them with nonsense. Cut the unnecessary crap, and pare down the necessary crap by cutting out all of the waffle (including, these days, the 2 minutes of naff family-friendly animation and elevator music that precedes the actual announcement - during which you are supposed to divide your attention between the screen, and the cabin crew's mime performance - yeah, that's gonna work!)
Hypothesis: if someone, for whatever reason, has genuine difficulty working out how to fasten or release an airline seatbelt, the existing announcement isn't going to help them one jot - someone will need to show them personally or do it for them. Cabin crew's time would be better spent helping people than doing the safety dance.
Meanwhile, I hope that I never have to try retrieving and donning an airline lifejacket while sitting in a cramped centre seat with no room to move my elbows, probably flanked by two idiots who didn't hear the instruction about not inflating the jacket until leaving the plane. Especially since (probability of being in an air crash) x (proportion of air crashes in which a lifejacket will save your ass) = 0 for all practical purposes.
While we're at it, please also get rid of:
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday July 31 2017, @01:37PM (3 children)
It's called natural selection. You can't fix everything..
Airlines thought they were smart by lumping the costs on passengers. That in turn screwed them back.
So you have to "check in" online first. And then again physically at the airport?
Almost like one should program a bot to always check-in ..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @03:32PM (1 child)
You mean you are selected out for not checking the intelligence of your future seat neighbours before entering the plane?
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday August 01 2017, @12:49AM
No, people will inflate their life west in the event of a accident before getting out of the plane body. And it's not your fault. But they will be out of the gene pool after such mistake.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by aclarke on Monday July 31 2017, @07:10PM
Yeah I don't feel bad about bringing carry-on in the least bit. This is entirely brought on by the airlines trying to charge once for the ticket, and then again for the bag. This is the law of unintended consequences.
More things airlines could do:
- Line up boarding zones ahead of time, so it's clear which zone is 1, 2, 3, etc. Then people could be in their own boarding zone lines, eliminating the mass of people waiting around the gate, making it unclear who's lining up to board, and who's hanging around waiting for their zone.
- Remove the seat recline option in coach. OK I admit most people will disagree with this, but I pay for a certain personal zone when I fly. A small buffer around me, if you will. I'm 6'4 and it pisses me off to no end when some tiny little 5'1 person immediately leans their seat back into "my space". I continue to treat it as my space through the flight. I don't lean my seat back into the person behind me, and in my opinion if seats didn't recline, this problem would go away.
- Get rid of the TSA in the US and almost all security theatre. Now, the US has all these programmes where you can pay extra, or do this or that, to avoid some of the hassles. We could also avoid the hassles by just removing them. Keep the pilots locked in their cockpit, and handle whatever happens behind there once the plane lands.
- Encourage people to keep moving once they're immediately out of their bottleneck. This includes standing in the aisle to slowly remove a bag while people are desperately waiting behind them to catch a connecting flight, wandering slowly down the jetway once they're out of the plane, etc. This is human behaviour and one can observe it everywhere people exit something (red light, exiting a play, etc.) but it's obnoxious and not very thoughtful. Maybe not a lot the airline can do about it though.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Spamalope on Monday July 31 2017, @01:08PM (1 child)
I've run across two type of car seatbelts with a center button.
The first older type is more difficult to remove than the airline belts, especially under pressure. This matters for a reason I'll get to in a moment.
The 2nd type is easy to remove. In fact, sharp hits to the center of the clasp unlock it. Hits from either side. So if your hip bone hits it in an accident it can unlock. That's a potential problem with the inertial reel belts too. I was in a wreck where the bumpers missed so there was a softer sheet metal impact then a brief pause before solid parts of the car hit. During the release of pressure the seat belts reels let go and never grabbed again, resulting in terrible injuries for both of us in the front.
The airline seats have another problem. The attachments to the floor aren't strong enough. In a crash the rail on the floor can pull up, or the seat legs break. Your belt isn't connected to any solid structure - just the seat. So the seat carrying the heaviest passenger behind you breaks free and lands on the seat in front which breaks. That cascade doesn't stop until everyone is piled up crushed in the front, fatal for all but the passengers in the very back (maybe).
Even if the seats don't fail, they're likely to bend. You want a seat belt buckle that operates in that situation.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @05:12PM
In the event of a crash the seatbelts are not for protecting your safety. They are to try to keep you in your seat so your body is easier to identify.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday July 31 2017, @01:24PM
How intrusive. I'll hope someone orders a large quantity of them because of the advert only to cancel it all at the very last moment..
Luckily laptops with headphones is a thing.
(as long as that lasts..)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @02:55PM
While I have flown many times and hardly pay attention to the safety briefings, and while you too may have heard them a hundred times, there are and will always be people (likely in YOUR plane) who are flying for the first time who need to hear and see this.