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The President of the University of Texas at Austin released a letter regarding the removal of statues on the campus.
[...] The University of Texas at Austin is a public educational and research institution, first and foremost. The historical and cultural significance of the Confederate statues on our campus — and the connections that individuals have with them — are severely compromised by what they symbolize. Erected during the period of Jim Crow laws and segregation, the statues represent the subjugation of African Americans. That remains true today for white supremacists who use them to symbolize hatred and bigotry.
The University of Texas at Austin has a duty to preserve and study history. But our duty also compels us to acknowledge that those parts of our history that run counter to the university's core values, the values of our state and the enduring values of our nation do not belong on pedestals in the heart of the Forty Acres.
The issue isn't a new one, they first looked into the issue in 2015, and had a wide range of options including effectively turning the mall into an open air museum, which they eventually decided against. Should the statues be relocated from their historical context just because of the attitudes and behaviour of noisy minorities? (Your humble editor cannot forget the local riots when a historical but hostile-themed statue was relocated.)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Immerman on Tuesday August 22 2017, @05:06PM (33 children)
The thing is, statues don't record history. Destroying them has no more effect on the historical record than keeping them around.
The entire point of their existence is to *commemorate* a person or event - i.e. to celebrate and/or express respect for them. By keeping them on public display you continue to publicly commemorate them. And if what you're commemorating them for is trying to preserve slavery... well then maybe you need to rethink your priorities.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by unauthorized on Tuesday August 22 2017, @05:50PM (18 children)
They are historic evidence, just like any artifact that archeologists manage to unearth.
Do you think that people who go to visit the pyramids are there to worship dead pharaohs? Do you think that the Kremlin is being used today to glorify the Russian monarchy?
This is a ridiculous proposition. We are under no obligation to continue using objects for their original intended purpose.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @06:20PM (2 children)
So then removing them is not a problem! Thanks for clearing that up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 23 2017, @05:04AM (1 child)
Remove the pyramids? That's asinine.
So you want us to build the Trump monument so Huge that's its as difficult for philistines to remove on a whim as the pyramids?
P.S. When your government spends millions to remove statues, then I don't want to hear them bitching when they're flooded for lack of maintaining levies...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 23 2017, @09:41PM
It is amusing the see the "defenders" in this thread spout amazing amounts of nonsense. Really keeps things in perspective here :)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:10PM (4 children)
It would be interesting if someone could point to other examples of statues put up to celebrate the losing side of a war.
Hitler? Goering? Goebbels? In Germany??
Doesn't happen.
Now, if there was a historical marker alongside the statue, which said when and where it was originally erected and when and why it was moved, THAT would give it historical context.
Historian James Loewen spoke with Pacifica Radio host Mitch Jeserich about this topic last week.
It's a 22MB MP3, available indefinitely. [kpfa.org]
Their talk is 08:10 - 56:20.
At 19:10 - 23:15, there is a particularly good portion about States Rights and how the Confederacy was -not- in favor of those (e.g. Pennsylvania's right to ignore the Fugitive Slave Act).
Very informative about the timing (1890 - 1940) of the surge in Confederate statuary and the rise in racism/segregation/Jim Crow in USA.
(Plessy v Ferguson was handed down in 1896.)
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:18PM (2 children)
I don't think supporters of the statues will see this bit of reason, they are emotionally impacted and feel like "whites" are under attack everywhere.
I hope we're seeing the dying throws of racism in the US. It will always be around, no country has ever eliminated it, but I'm given hope by the number of racists who truly are trying hard to not be. It would go faster if they were capable of realizing that they're in a transition phase and can't just claim they are suddenly different.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:51PM (1 child)
Good word.
Even better when you spell it correctly.
http://www.google.com/search?q=throes [google.com]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @10:37PM
I'm sick today, I'm glad there weren't any worse typos :D
(Score: 3, Informative) by unauthorized on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:12PM
If you read the comment chain again, you will find the person I'm responding to makes the case that destroying these historic artifacts is okay and that their only possible function is to "celebrate" the depicted persons. I specifically addressed these two points.
I'm not addressing the subject of how they should be preserved.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:25PM (9 children)
That is exactly why the pyramids were originally built.
That was why it was built in the first place.
No one erected either of those structures as a matter of historical record. They were built to commemorate specific ideas, people or events. Same applies to the confederate statues. They were built because they were admired by enough people to warrant the commissioning of a statue. And you can't really compare 2000 year old tombs and defunct government buildings to people who actively fought to preserve slavery. Tell me, how many statues of Nazi officers have you found in Germany?
(Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:05PM (1 child)
Speaking of pyramids and the Kremlin. There's a pyramid at the Kremlin, just outside that terrific wall they have. And you can go inside the pyramid and see Vladimir Lenin's body. Which is perfectly preserved, it's in amazing condition. And nobody says, "oh no, we can't have that radical communist revolutionary on display." They say "oh, how lifelike!" They pay their respects. And they get on with life. In a capitalist economy that is the envy of the world. 🇺🇸
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:15PM
More like a crony capitalist petrostate that is the bane of its people. But point taken.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by unauthorized on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:28PM (6 children)
Yes, hence the analogy.
OP claims that the statues can only serve their original picture. My rebuttal is that they [blackseanews.net] are not there to suck Tutankhamun's metaphorical dick and therefore it is possible for an object created with the intention of sucking some historical figure's metaphorical dick to have a different significance by giving this obvious example.
I'm not. Analogies are not a direct comparisons, they are meant to establish an idea through examining the common aspects of two subjects.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:49PM (1 child)
Don't bother with analogies. There are many people who will suddenly pretend to not understand what an analogy is simply because their opponent in an argument uses one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 23 2017, @12:21AM
I suddenly don't understand. Could you explain with a car analogy? Preferably using Volkswagens, or Ford Pharaohs?
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:56PM (2 children)
Buildings and massive tombs are not good analogies to monuments of actual people apart from the basic idea of it being a historical structure.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Wednesday August 23 2017, @01:18AM (1 child)
How is a massive tomb not a monument to a person?
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday August 23 2017, @12:30PM
True. My wording should have been kept the same as in a "2000 year old tomb". Long dead as well as the entire civilization.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday August 23 2017, @03:15PM
Interesting thing about the pyramids -- the Ancient Egyptians started tearing the things apart after a while. Looting the contents of the tombs and dragging the stones away to construct other buildings. It was later cultures that came through and decided what was left (which only still existed because the things were so freakin' huge to begin with) was worth preserving.
So if we want to treat these statues just like the pyramids...we should tear 'em down, send 'em to a scrapyard, and wait for future historians to find them in a few centuries.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 22 2017, @06:55PM (10 children)
That someone once celebrated a person enough to put up statues to them is extremely historically relevant. That someone created the art itself is extremely culturally relevant. If you cannot see this, do please go join ISIS and bust up someone else's history instead of ours.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:13PM (4 children)
It is amusing seeing the mental contortions applied to this topic.
If I had the time I would go through all previous stories and find a comment where you were dismissive about someone wanting to preserve a legacy. Hell, just the articles on the Dakota pipeline were enough. Where was this righteous outrage then? Oh right, they aren't white and they were in the way of the white man's agendas. Here we have a public majority supporting these actions and suddenly you're all protective of the poor persecuted minority. You align yourself with racists, and if you're tired of such accusations then stop defending them! You deny racism all the time, proclaim how tolerant you are of everything, but when it comes down to it you only get outraged when white people are under attack.
#SAD
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:35PM (3 children)
Go through all the stories you want. You won't find me arguing what you want to find me arguing.
And you say I'm the racist? Here's a clue, short bus, attacking white people for being white is racist. Period. That you don't see me ranting on about how any other racial group is currently being oppressed or persecuted is simple: they're not. Racism only goes one direction in this country in any significant way right now, straight towards white people.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday August 22 2017, @09:34PM (1 child)
> Racism only goes one direction in this country in any significant way right now, straight towards white people.
You're trolling better when you leave some room for interpretation, rather than go for blatant falsehoods.
When even Chinese people, in California, are complaining about the jump in racist behaviors towards them, and you know they get a tiny fraction of the shit that Brown/Black people get, you know your assesment is really far off the mark.
The white man is a punching bag, and out of media fashion, but we're still in charge.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 23 2017, @12:41PM
Self-hating fool. Sigh.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @10:34PM
Ah yes, I was imprecise:
Aside from the edge cases of violence at protests and such (which happens on one side more than another, but we can skip that) white people are in no way under attack. Get rid of the persecution complex.
Holy fucking shit. You just put the nail in the coffin pal, shortbus indeed.
So first we had racism, and it sucked. Then we had counter racism which did not help and made the problem worse. Now we're at counter counter racism... fucking hell, you morons need to grow a pair and start looking into Buddhism.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:34PM (4 children)
When you put it that way, I guess one point of view would be to archive that statement and document the specifics for the statue in question. Unless the actual physical object is also of relevance (which it might be).
(Score: 2, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 22 2017, @07:39PM (3 children)
Historical art shouldn't be destroyed just because it's not popular. Its history is our history, good or bad. If it's currently too offensive to some fragile little snowflakes to stand looking at it, box it up and save it for posterity when you can again teach the children of this nation the truth about it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @10:43PM (2 children)
Alright, time to address your inherent insanity of the day.
So not only did the article state that these statues would go into a museum (did you even RTFA?) but there was zero mention of destruction. Your brain is out of whack due to its emotionally triggered state brought on by "muh statooos!"
I'm not surprised you project your own issues outward with statements like "fragile little snowflakes", I think you'd have a full blown panic attack if you were capable of realizing that you are one of the biggest snowflakes around here that hides behind a shield of bravado. Try being human, flaws and all it is a much better experience than being a sentient animal at the mercy of every hormone and survival based neural pathway.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 23 2017, @12:44PM (1 child)
I think your reading comprehension is lacking. You are seeing an argument with their actions where there is none. I was agreeing with what they did, dipshit.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 23 2017, @03:47PM
Go back to school, you obviously need to take some courses on writing. You seem unable to clearly state your meaning and repeatedly have to clarify what you meant.
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Tuesday August 22 2017, @09:34PM (1 child)
Actually, while far from a complete historical record, many statues do have a paragraph or two explaining the historical significance of the person depicted.
A much as I find it unlikely, I completely agree with TMB on this one... <shudders>
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @10:59PM
In case you miss my other comment I'd like to reiterate that no one is destroying the statues. For the ones in this article they are being relocated to a museum, and some even put on display elsewhere.
I did a quick search and all I could find was some people being charged with vandalism for pulling down a statue and another fact checking some #fakenews to point out that statues were not destroyed but simply removed. I'm shocked, SHOCKED that TMB might be a sucker for alt-right propaganda.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 23 2017, @06:20PM
" And if what you're commemorating them for is trying to preserve slavery"
this was propaganda at the time and is propaganda now. if the south would have tried to forcibly retain the north in a union they could have done just like the north and abolished slavery out of political convenience(assuming they had a replacement like the north did) and then used the children in the factories as their excuse and all the brainwashed fucks today would be whinging about the statues of union statesmen who symbolized the oppression of children. you people are as dumb as the propagandists think you are.