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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday September 06 2017, @02:46PM   Printer-friendly
from the dunk-it-in-milk dept.

Google is using the boiling frog method to exclude power users and custom ROMS from android.

A new feature in Android 8.0 Oreo, called "Rollback Protection" and included in the "Verified Boot" changes, will prevent a device from booting should it be rolled back to an earlier firmware. The detailed information is here.

As it rejects an image if its "rollback index" is inferior than the one in "tamper evident storage", any attempts to install a previous version of the official, signed ROM will make the device unbootable. Much like iOS (without the rollback grace period) or the extinct Lumias. It is explained in the recommended boot workflow and notes below, together with some other "smart" ideas.

Now, this might seem like a good idea at first, but let's just just imagine this on a PC. It would mean no easy roll back from windows 10 to 7 after a forced installation, and doing that or installing linux would mean a unreasonably complex bootloader unlocking, with all your data wiped. Add safetynet to the mix, and you would also be blocked from watching netflix or accessing your banking sites if you dared to install linux or rollback windows.

To add insult to injury, unlocked devices will stop booting for at least 10 seconds to show some paternalist message on how unlocking is bad for your health - "If the device has a screen and buttons (for example if it's a phone) the warning is to be shown for at least 10 seconds before the boot process continues."

Now, and knowing that most if not all android bootloaders have vulnerabilities/backdoors, how can this be defended, even with the "security/think of the children" approach? This has no advantages other than making it hard for users to install ROMs or to revert to a previous official ROM to restore missing functionality.


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  • (Score: 1) by bungle on Wednesday September 06 2017, @04:16PM (15 children)

    by bungle (1370) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @04:16PM (#564188)

    Well, if we can get the Purism Librem 5 supported, perhaps that.

    https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ [puri.sm]

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday September 06 2017, @04:40PM (14 children)

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @04:40PM (#564197)

    Ok, but I see a bunch of problems here:

    1) They're talking about running GNOME. Why the fuck would you do such a stupid thing? Gnome sucks hard enough on the desktop and consumes massive resources while offering very few features somehow; that's the last thing you want on a mobile device. They'll need a massively overpowered CPU just to run the thing because of that, and the thing will be terribly unreliable because Gtk+ is a pile of shit.

    2) What the fuck is really the point of this? Many people have tried making Linux-based phones before, and they've all been a massive failure. Why not just buy a burner phone? They're cheap and make calls just fine. The whole point of having a smartphone is the apps; it's the whole reason Windows became a juggernaut on the desktop and has been so hard to dislodge. This phone doesn't seem to have any apps, except whatever they ship (so, the basics). Can I load Tinder or Bumblr-type dating apps on it? Can I run my bank's app on it? Can I run my preferred RPN calculator app on it (or do I have to use some shitty GNOME-esque calculator app that doesn't even do hexadecimal conversions and bitwise operations)? Ask any smartphone user, and they likely have several "must-have" apps; it's just like the situation with Windows. At least with desktop computing, there's been a lot of effort in making FOSS alternatives for most important things, and WINE actually does run a lot of Windows programs, plus Linux is more organic, whereas this is just one startup company. There's no existing library of alternative mobile apps, and a lot of people really do use a lot of network-using apps (like banking, dating, social media, etc.). I saw nothing on that page about plans for compatibility with Android apps, so it's really just an overpowered, fancy telephone. It probably won't even have visual voicemail. So what's the point in having it, instead of a burner phone? I guess easier texting, but that's all I can think of. The built-in camera is nice I guess but I can just buy a pocket camera that takes better pictures.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by jmorris on Wednesday September 06 2017, @05:02PM (8 children)

      by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @05:02PM (#564200)

      Actually the primary complaint against GNOME3 was that it was obviously a tablet / phone interface running on a desktop in a world where almost all the hardware that could actually benefit from it was locked away from it. It might actually be worth looking at on the hardware was written to run on. Their iPhone envy might finally be justified.

      See? I can actually say something nice about RedHat and the GNOMEs.

      As for apps, screw almost all of em, especially the junk in the Play Store. I do not want ads or shareware or the more typical case of shareware with battery sucking spyware AND ads in it. The amount of useful software remaining in the Play Store is low enough to ignore now if it comes to it. Somebody really does need to figure out what the hangup is getting Android apps running on a Linux desktop reliably though, the f-droid repo has a fair number of useful Android apps.

      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday September 06 2017, @05:28PM (6 children)

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @05:28PM (#564203)

        Yes, most of the Play Store apps are garbage, but that's true of everything: "95% of everything is crap". I'd say most smartphone users have a small handful of apps they regularly use and maybe even rely on (or at least use so much they'd really miss them if they were gone). Personally, I get a lot of use out of RealCalc, which AFAIK has no spyware and definitely no ads (it nags you to buy the full version occasionally though). This project talks about having a mobile Linux development environment, so basically they're hoping a bunch of volunteers will pop up and start making Free apps for their phone, but that's wishful thinking really.

        • (Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:12PM (5 children)

          by gawdonblue (412) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:12PM (#564271)

          Personally, I get a lot of use out of RealCalc, which AFAIK has no spyware and definitely no ads (it nags you to buy the full version occasionally though). This project talks about having a mobile Linux development environment, so basically they're hoping a bunch of volunteers will pop up and start making Free apps for their phone, but that's wishful thinking really.

          Double bonus with Gnome on the Phone: gnome-calculator. It's a real scientific calculator that doesn't nag you and doesn't come from no stinkin' pay-for-app store. And triple bonus: it's GPL so you can search the source and tell if it has spyware. And even a quadruple bonus, it already exists and is already usable on mobile screen sizes. Maybe you can try it right now on your device...

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:45PM (4 children)

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:45PM (#564283)

            I just looked up your gnome-calculator, and it's completely unusable. It's not RPN.

            • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday September 06 2017, @11:13PM (2 children)

              by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @11:13PM (#564325)

              So spin again, you do know how many calculators are on the Linux desktop, right? Galculator supports Algebraic, RPN and Formula Entry modes. Many, many more to pick from.

              • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday September 07 2017, @03:21AM (1 child)

                by Grishnakh (2831) on Thursday September 07 2017, @03:21AM (#564396)

                Those are for the desktop. You can't use a desktop app on a mobile device.

                • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Thursday September 07 2017, @03:36AM

                  by jmorris (4844) on Thursday September 07 2017, @03:36AM (#564404)

                  Sure you can. As long as it is usable on the screen. What do you think GNOME3 is, just gtk3 apps optimized for touch and with a eye to looking good and being usable on a small screen. The rest is in the window manager's defaults to force everything full screen. Rare to find a calculator app that paints so many buttons it won't run on the phablets everybody carries around now.

            • (Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Saturday September 09 2017, @10:33PM

              by gawdonblue (412) on Saturday September 09 2017, @10:33PM (#565782)

              Oh, sorry. I didn't realise that RPN was critical to your workflow. The requirements document skipped some functionality. "Completely unusable" might be a bit over the top, though.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @07:46AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @07:46AM (#564461)

        I used to say the same about Microsofts Surface UI, aka Windows 8/8.1/10. So I got a Windows tablet. Turned out that the UI was only enough of a phone interface to be useless on the desktop, as soon as I started using my Windows 10 tablet, I found out that it was so incomplete that half the stuff had to be done through regular Windows software (e.g. Regedit), which was horrible on a tablet.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:16PM (2 children)

      by edIII (791) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:16PM (#564272)

      So?? If this thing is free and open as they say, you could install OpenBSD if you wanted. Assuming, OpenBSD would support the hardware in the first place. I'm more of a BSD guy, and headless 99.9% of the time, but isn't Gnome just a window manager? It can't be replaced with KDE or something else?

      I get your gripe, but the real question is the radio is unlocked and can it be used by a different distro?

      It's a great first step, and converting it to something non-Gnome does not look insurmountable. It doesn't even look like Purism would fight it, just on principles alone.

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:44PM (1 child)

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:44PM (#564281)

        So?? If this thing is free and open as they say, you could install OpenBSD if you wanted. Assuming, OpenBSD would support the hardware in the first place. I'm more of a BSD guy, and headless 99.9% of the time, but isn't Gnome just a window manager? It can't be replaced with KDE or something else?

        This is a PHONE. Desktop window managers and environments are not going to be usable on it.

        Granted, KDE was (and might still be) working on a different version of Plasma specifically for phones, but I haven't heard anything about it in a long time and I doubt it's ready for prime-time.

        And all the applications you use on a desktop machine won't work on it. None of them have UIs designed for small 5" touchscreens.

        I get your gripe, but the real question is the radio is unlocked and can it be used by a different distro?

        The only thing that does is enable development. There is simply no software ecosystem in existence currently that would make this a practical device.

        If all you needed to do was load up a current desktop Linux distro, you can do that right now with a Raspberry Pi. There's a reason this is a hard problem: the device has a fundamentally different form factor requiring completely a different UI, which means all-new software is needed, not just in the display/window manager stuff (remember too, phones don't have "windows", every app is full-screen) but for all the applications that run on it too. The only thing that such devices can share with desktop machines are the non-UI internals.

        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:49PM

          by edIII (791) on Wednesday September 06 2017, @09:49PM (#564286)

          No, it is a COMPUTER with a PHONE RADIO. At least they market it that way from what I've seen in their literature so far. Your point about the UIs not being designed is indeed an issue that needs to be addresses. As you stated though, it does enable development. I'm at least hopeful that the community would come up with something.

          I'm so ridiculously comfortable on the command line versus a UI, that I would take a headless phone and use it all damn day long. Screw the UI and the walled garden platforms. Just give me free hardware and a command line and I can make do.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @12:43AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @12:43AM (#564349)

      Some people want computers that respect their freedoms. Not everyone is like you, someone who only seems to care about functionality.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @12:50AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @12:50AM (#564355)

        With that said, there is still proprietary software in those Purism phones, so they are not sufficient.