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Around the world, support is growing for electric cars. Automakers are delivering more electric models with longer range and lower prices, such as the Chevrolet Bolt and the Tesla Model 3. China has set aggressive targets for electric vehicle sales to curb pollution; some European countries aim to be all-electric by 2040 or sooner.
Those lofty ambitions face numerous challenges, including one practical consideration for consumers: If they buy electric cars, where will they charge them?
[...] Mr. Romano says there's no exact ratio of the number of chargers needed per car. But he says workplaces should have around 2.5 chargers for every employee and retail stores need one for every 20 electric cars. Highways need one every 50 to 75 miles, he says. That suggests a lot of gaps still need to be filled.
Automakers and governments are pushing to fill them. The number of publicly available, global charging spots grew 72 percent to more than 322,000 last year, the International Energy Agency said. Navigant Research expects that to grow to more than 2.2 million by 2026; more than one-third of those will be in China.
Tesla Inc. – which figured out years ago that people wouldn't buy its cars without roadside charging – is doubling its global network of Supercharger stations to 10,000 this year. BMW, Daimler, Volkswagen, and Ford are building 400 fast-charging stations in Europe. Volkswagen is building hundreds of stations across the United States as part of its settlement for selling polluting diesel engines. Even oil-rich Dubai, which just got its first Tesla showroom, has more than 50 locations to charge electric cars.
If range anxiety and the availability of charging stations remain a barrier to EV adoption, then for Tesla it seems like it's nearly a solved problem. Will a reliable supply of batteries or the self-driving features piggy-backing on EV platforms like the Teslas or the Nissan Leaf prove the real differentiators in the market?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @09:19AM (15 children)
A solar panel might produce perhaps 200 watts - for a 1 square meter panel that tracks the sun on a bright day. If you accumulate 2 kW/h per day with your solar panel, that's enough for about five or six miles of driving. Under real-world conditions, with a flush-mounted solar panel, you might get two extra miles. Not worth the cost of adding it to the car. 2 kW/h is about what you'd get from an ordinary 110V outlet in an hour. If two miles makes the difference between running out of charge and not, you aren't really in the market for an electric car. Cover the entire car in solar panels and you might get ten extra miles. This would probably cost $5000 (maybe more, not sure how much more expensive curved panels are than flat ones) - maybe in the realm of possibility for a high-end car, but not for a mass-market one. Also, nobody better ding you in a parking lot, or your panel will crack and the whole thing will be ruined.
I guess a home battery might help if you want to max out a 110V outlet 24/7 so you can charge your car more quickly when you are home without needing an improved electrical system. That's actually a pretty neat idea to solve the whole "but I can't/don't want to install a three-phase charger at home." Of course the equipment would be more expensive than an ordinary three-phase charger (since it needs all the same stuff plus an extra battery), so it likely only appeals to renters with lots of money - an odd combination. Still, maybe there would be a niche market for it.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Thursday September 07 2017, @09:45AM (1 child)
And another consideration: if people strategically park their cars in the sun to charge their batteries, how much of that energy will be used by the air-con because the car's too hot when they return?
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @09:59AM
Probably not that much more really, since that energy went into the batteries.
I wonder if electric car makers will someday catch on to the idea that people might want to run the A/C while they're parked. It would make for a lot of much more comfortable dogs, and unlike with a combustion engine, there's no mechanical limitation.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday September 07 2017, @10:24AM (6 children)
I am looking at roofing my diesel van's roof with solar... just so I can run accessories without depleting the battery.
From what I could tell, it looks like should I accidentally drain the starting batteries, if I am lucky and route all power from the solar panels to the starting batteries, one day's worth of juice should charge the batteries enough to start the thing. ( assuming somewhat less than ideal conditions ). Maybe an hour if everything is just right and the batteries are not seriously depleted.
Still worth it to me if I am in a remote area and don't have people on call to come jumpstart me.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday September 07 2017, @12:50PM (5 children)
For just-in-case.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Portable-Mini-Car-Jump-Starter-Multi-function-AUTO-Emergency-Start-Power-Bank-Engine-Booster-Battery-Pack/32339678550.html [aliexpress.com]
400A peak current - I think you should be able to start a diesel.
Not quite clear what to make of "Input:12V1A" and "83000mAh - charging time:4h".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by hemocyanin on Thursday September 07 2017, @03:21PM (1 child)
I have trouble believing that thing is what it says it is -- if it really is 68,000 mAh w/ Li-Ion batteries (the one in the link doesn't reference having an 83 Ah battery), that represents 6.8 of these $175 battery packs: http://www.batteryjunction.com/tenergy-31357.html [batteryjunction.com] Or as bare batteries, you'd need 4 in series to get the 14v, and 18 sets of those 4 to get 68 Ah. That's 72 batteries at $5.25 each, total $378 (assuming they can put out power fast enough to start a car without catching fire). http://www.batteryjunction.com/panasonic-ncr18650b-3400.html [batteryjunction.com] If they're really selling that much capacity for $50, you should buy them by the ship load, strip them for batteries, and make a killing.
Plus there's different figures for charging all over the place, I see 14v1A and 12v2A. Either way, even at 2A, it is impossible to charge a battery of that capacity in 4 hours -- more like 40 if it really is an 83 Ah battery. I think they're just flat out lying.
Then there's the first review: "All as in the description. very fast shipping. machine curled without problems. with the rest of good. thank you. the goods recommend to buy." WTF?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @05:58PM
It's important to note that even when they're not just pulling numbers out their asses, such battery packs are typically (and incorrectly) labeled with the sum of the capacity of all cells. So if you have 20 3.7V, 3.4Ah cells, and arrange them in 4s5p, the battery is really about 15V, 17Ah, but will be labeled as "16.8v, 68000mah".
So at the bottom of the page, it says:
But because of the mislabeling tendency, I suspect that 12Ah figure may be bogus (the product dimensions are just big enough that 16x (4s4p) 3Ah 18650 cells could fit in that space, but the stated weight is much too light), and it's probably really only 3Ah.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Friday September 08 2017, @08:54AM (2 children)
Colo: I bought two similar LiPO packs from Harbor Freight [harborfreight.com] which look like both in parallel ( one on each of the van's batteries ) might assist in case of a "barely won't start", but just looking at them, and the size of the cabling going to the batteries, I am rather dubious they can actually start this beast, glow plugs and all. Not only is this beast's engine three times the displacement of my Toyota, its also high compression, and has glow plug load on top of that. I believe those things would start the Toyota, no problem. They *might* start the beast.
I finally chickened out and bought an AAA membership just in case I ever got into trouble with this thing. I have never had anything like this before, and I feel quite helpless to start the thing if the battery goes weak, so consider me quite pro-active in trying to avoid this scenario. The Toyota, well I could damn near Flintstone it home if I had to; it was quite lightweight and manual, so pushstarting was a very viable option. I seriously doubt I could move the beast just by pushing on it, albeit if some other pretty good sized truck pushed me, I don't know if I could command it into, say, second gear, and throw the "coast clutch" and "torque converter" clutch on this beast's transmission and push start it. It has the E4OD transmission, which appears almost to be a manual transmission with solenoid operated controls. I will be building a new transmission control computer for it anyway. I know this kind of thing, as I have been building this kind of stuff for 40 years now.
Now, that I have hit retirement, and have the luxury of choosing what I spend my time doing, my needs have changed. ( err, so has my waistline ). That Toyota served me well for the 40+ years I have had it. But, like me, its aging, its hard to get parts for it, and quite frankly, I have outgrown it. Literally. I no longer have a daily commute to a tiny spot in a parking lot. Now, I want something I can live in, and is strong enough to carry stuff around in... as I now want to carry my tools and whatever around with me, and looking forward, should I need it, its readily adaptable for use as a handicap van. Hopefully, I won't need to do that, but I am just thinking ahead.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday September 08 2017, @12:06PM (1 child)
Oh, wow. When you give them a try (you will, won't you?) please let me/us know how they worked.
I wouldn't be worries about the glow plugs, I don't think they'll eat more than 400W total; but high compression ratio and large displacement mean a heck of power for the starter.
What's the operating current for that one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday September 09 2017, @02:20AM
Eight glow plugs. The engine is 7.3 L. High compression at that. No turbo.
Its no racehorse, but I believe it would pull a house off its foundation if I asked it to. Standard E4OD transmission.
Its already pulled a few tree stumps out of my front yard. Acted like it hardly noticed them.
One of these days I will pick up a good 1000A clamp-on and actually measure it, as the cabling going to each battery ( 2 group 24F ) is about as big as my thumb.
I know this beast can be hard to wake up if its cold outside....even with brand new glow plugs, with each measuring about 10V during starting.
Presently looking into how to modify the air intake so I can preheat the incoming air with a handheld mapp-gas plumbing torch during those trying times ( which thankfully occur rarely ).
( I'll have the hood popped for this, so I will be starting it with a nearby starter and glow plug control switches under the hood while I am manning the torch ).
I have not been over everything yet with a fine tooth comb, as I intend to replace a lot of stuff when I customize this thing. One thing I am going to have is built-in current measurement rings so I can watch things like starting current on an oscilloscope so I can get live "compression testing" upon startup, baseline it, and watch for deviations which would indicate pending engine problems such as valve, head gasket, ring, or cavitation failure.
I will report back here as I little by little actually do the stuff. I plan a lot before I go for tools, as poor planning quickly gets very expensive! I have a lot of time, not much money, so I do a lot of looking before I leap.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 07 2017, @12:56PM (4 children)
Solar panels are more in the range of 300W these days. They improve all the time, and the cost has been sliding dramatically.
The way to calculate output from a solar panel is to take that panel's rating and multiply it by the insolation, which is average number of hours per day that a solar panel will run at peak. Here in NYC it's 4 hours. So that 300W panel would net you 1.2kwh/day, or 36 for the month.
A top-of-the-line Tesla Model S has a 100kW battery with a range of 315miles. The average commute in America is 23 miles round trip, so for 20 business days/month that's 460 miles. So you'd need to recharge ~1.5 times to travel that distance, or 150kWh. That's a little more than 4 of those solar panels to generate the electricity you'd need to drive your car on pure solar.
Most homes have roofs that are larger than 1 sq. meter so you'd probably be able to swing that. There's also the roof of the garden shed and perhaps the gazebo that could hold a couple, and there are also structures that can go over your driveway that can hold a few. A bit bulky that, but it has the nice benefit that you don't have to shovel your driveway so much.
YMMV of course, but it's not the impossible lift some believe it is.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday September 07 2017, @03:22PM (2 children)
It's also worth noting that the Teslas, being built as sports cars, are juice guzzlers.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 07 2017, @04:11PM
True, but it's so much fun. I test-drove a Model S with ludicrous speed on Friday in a wealthy suburb north of Detroit. It blew everything else off the road.
Also, I wasn't supposed to, but starting from a red light next to a Bentley I put the car in autonomous mode, laced my fingers behind my head, and gave its driver my best grin as the Model S drove itself through traffic. Back in the parking garage it was also fun to get out and use the key fob to tell the car to park itself.
Next to that the fact it was an electric car was almost an afterthought. It was simply a far superior driving experience. That's the secret sauce.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Informative) by steveha on Thursday September 07 2017, @07:28PM
It's also worth noting that the Teslas, being built as sports cars, are juice guzzlers.
You might think so, but it turns out not to be the case.
A 2017 Tesla Model S has an "MPGe" (miles per gallon equivalent) number of around 100 [fueleconomy.gov]. (The P90D gets 95, the 90D gets 104, other models vary.)
The highest efficiency EVs listed on the fueleconomy.gov web site (link [fueleconomy.gov]) have 8 cars with MPGe at or above 100, and two of those are Tesla Model S models.
But what about the Tesla Roadster? That's a sports car, that might be wasteful... nope, Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] says its MPGe is 120. As a sports car it's lightweight and aerodynamic, and I guess that translates into efficiency.
Okay, how about the Tesla Model 3. That will be less expensive, will it have worse MPGe? According to this article on thedrive.com [thedrive.com] it will have MPGe of 126.
For comparison, the top 2017 Toyota Prius (the Prius Eco [fueleconomy.gov]) has a combined MPG rating of 56.
It's totally fair to say that Teslas are expensive. I don't think it's fair to say they are "juice guzzlers".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 07 2017, @03:23PM
The most common solar panels for residential installations are 1.6m², with about 300W output as you say. But GP explicitly specified a 1m² panel, and 200W is right around what you'd expect from something of that size.
(Score: 3, Informative) by hemocyanin on Thursday September 07 2017, @02:26PM
I get 4.6 miles/kWh in my Leaf, so that's over 9 miles in your example.