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BMW is putting some big numbers to its electrification efforts. At a media event in Munich on Thursday ahead of next week's Frankfurt Motor Show, the automaker announced plans to bring to market at least 25 electrified vehicles by 2025 -- 13 of which will be fully electric. The new models are expected to be marketed through all of BMW AG's brands, including Mini and Rolls-Royce, but may also include BMW Motorrad, its motorbike division.
Most interestingly, Harald Krüger, BMW chairman of the board, revealed Tuesday that his company will show a four-door, pure-electric concept car in Frankfurt under its i sub-brand. The car will be designed to slot between its i3 electric urban runabout and i8 plug-in hybrid sports coupe. Few concrete details were revealed about the coming show car, but reading between the lines, it's clear that BMW is incubating a Tesla competitor -- likely a rival for the Model 3. The car's design is expected to be influenced by the Vision Next 100 (shown below), a futurethink concept vehicle designed to commemorate BMW's centennial.
Word from inside the executive circles at Ford is that they're gearing up to chase Tesla, too. How long before the last internal combustion engine production car rolls off the line, 5 years, 10 years, or 15?
(Score: 2) by n1 on Sunday September 10 2017, @01:44AM (4 children)
The Tesla faithful like to have it both ways... '99% of charging is done at home, so it doesn't matter that the supercharger network isn't capable of competing with gas stations in speed or practicality' ... 40 minutes to full charge is not quickly compared to 4 minutes to for refuel which will take you further... But, other company don't have a supercharger network, which is proof no one can compete with Tesla. I'm in the US now, going to do a big trip across many states in the next few weeks... The supercharger network that exists now doesn't enable me to do this without very large detours and stop overs, should I be driving a Tesla.
Other manufacturers will and are stepping up their EV game, partly because of government legislation and partly because there is a demand, but the technology is not ready to displace ICE in any meaningful way.
EV's are good, and Tesla has certainly helped the technology become viable for SOME consumers. Those of us who drive long distances, and haul trailers and other large loads are not going to be served any time soon... Tesla's new mobile service units, just like Tesla's solar installation teams drive ICE vans. Musk's private jet isn't electric, nor are Space-X rockets. It's still a niche, and will only become more when the technology advances a lot more than it has now... Or legislation does the work 'innovation' couldn't, which is more likely at the moment.
What I see happening with the Tesla disruption is the perhaps slow but very painful end to people on the lower end of the economic ladder owning means of transport. More dense urban populations using ride sharing, even more expensive suburban gated communities for the people who can afford a house with a garage and an EV.
The early adopters get some advantage, the tax credits, save money on fuel and the virtue signalling... But by the time it's somewhere close to being a real % of new cars sold.... There will have to be compromises made for the lost revenue from fuel sales for local/national governments to keep funding the infrastructure....
In the end, we get more expensive cars that are less practical, which you cant repair yourself, they will still require large amounts of ungreen mining to produce and used car market for economically struggling will disappear.
I've said it before, and i'll say it again... All this talk of saving the planet is marketing, Musk is not even subtle it's really about 'S3XY' ... The cars and the obsession with aesthetics on the solar roof project demonstrate this, it's about looking cool and smart, so other people can see how cool and smart you are.
And for Musk and Tesla, a company that 'doesn't do marketing' ... We still manage to find a way to get him into a story and/or headline every couple of days on this site on the most tangential of grounds. I am rather unimpressed of how many 'geeks' and 'nerds' buy the shit he's selling. It's fine if you want to have faith, and it's understandable in the current social/economic climate, but that's what it is.
The people who have faith in Musk/Tesla to solve the big problems are no better than those who have faith in Trump to solve the big issues... If only there wasn't some vast conspiracy that's holding them back at the same time as doing everything possible to promote them at every opportunity.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Whoever on Sunday September 10 2017, @02:03AM (3 children)
No, you are simply misinterpreting what is being said. Perhaps deliberately, in an attempt to make a point which isn't true.
Most driving is local. Most charging of EVs is at home, overnight. However, occasionally, longer drives are undertaken. On these longer drives, the SuperCharger network is crucial. Since, for most people (perhaps not you) those long drives are the exception rather than the norm, the fact that it may take 30 minutes to charge isn't much of an issue. Remember: it's exceptional.
There are no high-speed charging networks that are comparable to the SuperCharger network, which means that it is much more difficult for drivers of those other cars to make the exceptional long distance drives.
If you can't undertake long drives, then you may as well buy an EV with a 100 mile range. Buying an EV that can do 200 miles, but is not useful for a 400 mile journey is a waste of money.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by n1 on Sunday September 10 2017, @02:27AM (2 children)
I get what you're saying, it wasn't a deliberate attempt to misinterpret.
I've made the point before that while most EV charging is done at home, but where i'm from (Europe) most people do not have the option to plug-in at home. I've lived in several places where you're lucky to get a parking spot within two blocks the house or apartment. Maybe one day there will be charging infrastructure 'on the street' but we're many years away from it being commonplace, and the costs to build and manage that network are not small.
It's the same at peoples fixed places of work, there's maybe sometimes less than half of the parking available for the number of employees, people park on the street not in the office car park... That's only for visitors and executives.
Again to the point, the lost tax revenues will need to be replaced by something, and it will be on EV/transport. So by the time it truly is mass market, it won't be cheaper than ICE. Just like all the energy efficient lightbulbs and appliances 'save you money' only against what you would have paid, because either way your electric bill is still going up and the utility companies are not going to accept reduced revenues or profits.
I like EV's and I want one, it costs me over $100 (outside the US) to refuel for around 600 miles of driving in both ICE vehicles I own, it's painful at times. But we're a long way off for it being a practical and cost efficient replacement for my current modes of transport, and the same applies to basically everyone I know who isn't in the top 1% income bracket. Even with the Model 3, that's not going to change unless there are some truly exceptional deals on leasing at $250/pm.. And still in Europe driveways and garages for overnight charging is a luxury the 'mass market' consumer doesn't have.
I want to see more EV's, and I want to see wider adoption of them... What I don't want is an all or nothing approach so many seem to want with EVs before it's cost effective or a practical replacement for ICE.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Whoever on Sunday September 10 2017, @04:15AM (1 child)
The thing about EVs adoption is that it is going to take a long time. The EV infrastructure doesn't need to support every car owner today. There is plenty of time to build the infrastructure as the vehicle population shifts to EVs.
Street lights can be adapted to include EV charging, providing a solution for a portion of car owners, both at home and at work.
You are right that the tax revenue from ICE vehicles will need to be replaced as people move to EVs. I suspect that the solution will be to increase taxes on ICEs, until EVs become dominant, and then shift the tax burden over to EVs. Many European countries have a policy to eliminate the sale of new ICE vehicles, increased taxes on ICE vehicles supports this policy.
There really is only one way to reply to that nonsense: Bullshit!
(Score: 2) by n1 on Sunday September 10 2017, @05:28AM
I agree, EV adoption is going to take time. People like the submitter of this article seem optimistic that it could be complete in 5-15 years. 15 years may be possible if you don't count a hybrid as ICE, or are talking about very specific markets, but it's still a stretch in my opinion.
Adapting street lights is an appealing proposition and has some potential, but i'd like to see some proposals about how it's actually going to work. The systems used, who's paying installation costs, how will use be charged and the like. Also the safety/security of having cables trailing out of street lights across the pavements to cars several feet away is an interesting problem that needs a solution.
The 'shift tax burden onto EV' is what I mean by saving money against what you would have paid (in the future, vs what you have paid in the past). The early adopters, the already economically secure get the short term and potentially long term economic benefits... Before taxation shifts and/or before utility prices increase. The general population gets the higher tax on ICE burden and then by the time EV is suitable or ICE is legislated away, they'll still end up paying about the same, possibly indirect and spread over different methods of taxation.
The UK, as an example, has gone all in on the energy efficient light bulbs and appliances, televisions are much more efficient than they used to be. Much less desktop computer use in the home... Has anyone seen their electric bills come down? Average electric bill in UK was £288 in 2004... In 2014 it was £592.. After all those years of advances in energy saving technology being adopted by the general consumer. Energy efficient widgets perhaps offset the increased operating costs of the widgets, but the total cost of ownership doesn't ever seem to come down, even after accounting for inflation.
Last month...
Just to be clear again, I want to see a more widespread adoption of EV's, i'd love to have an EV pickup that I could charge with my own solar power. I am very much in favour of reducing consumption and having efficiently designed systems. The current ICE status-quo is rightfully coming to an end.
I want to see more alternative fuels and more choice in personal transportation, not for it to replicate the 'one size fits all' model of the smart-phone market where the 'average' person doesn't want/need a physical keyboard or a replaceable battery, so they don't even offer a choice anymore.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/british-gas-price-increase-energy-bill-electricity-125-per-cent-from-september-a7870131.html [independent.co.uk]
https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/the-average-gas-bill-average-electricity-bill-compared.html [ovoenergy.com]