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posted by
cmn32480
on Saturday September 16 2017, @03:36AM
from the static-is-a-precursor-to-shutdown dept.
from the static-is-a-precursor-to-shutdown dept.
After 13 years the Debian-Administration website will go read-only at the end of the month. Then later in the year it will transform it into a solely static-site so that the articles, weblogs, and associated comments are not lost - and they can be served via single server or two. Mostly this is happening due to lack of new content being added and folks posting more elsewhere.
https://debian-administration.org/article/730/This_site_is_going_to_go_read-only
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Debian-Administration.Org is Going Read-Only at the End of the Month
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* m2 stares at the monitor... it looks like a hamburger...
m2 - that's a bad sign
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:13AM (18 children)
Debian used to be the go-to Linux distro, especially when you needed a really stable Linux installation. But now that it uses systemd and Gnome 3, it's basically a clone of Fedora. The spark within its community is gone. Both the community and the distro have been neutered. Its best users now use the *BSDs or macOS instead. When I look at Debian, all I see is a corpse.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:59AM (1 child)
Best users? macOS is proprietary junk.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:32AM
BSD based junk, thank you
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @06:37AM (1 child)
The way systemd was pounded through Debian was demoralizing and insulting to the large user base. Then on top of that the damage that systemd has done to systemd administration has hurt. So between the two effects the air was really let out of the project's tires.
There is also much less emphasis on code and code quality and more emphasis on which coders are gayer and the code (and people) are promoted based on their gayness rather than how well the code works. But that's not a problem unique to Debian at all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:06PM
the damage that systemd has done to systemd administration has hurt.
If it weren't for systemd, there wouldn't be such a thing as systemd administration!
(Score: 5, Informative) by coolgopher on Saturday September 16 2017, @07:46AM (6 children)
Fortunately, Devuan [devuan.org] is doing well and is what Debian should have been/kept being.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:57PM (4 children)
I don't think that Devuan is "doing well". It my experience it's a very amateurish distro.
While I used to trust Debian for moderately critical workloads, I wouldn't even trust Devuan for throwaway use.
I think it's a myth that Devuan is a replacement for Debian. It's not.
If you're putting in the effort of moving away from Debian, you might as well move to one of the *BSDs instead of Devuan.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @03:50PM (1 child)
You are entitled to your opinion, but I use devuan successfully in server and embedded environments, and it's been great. You may run into a little bit of roughness, but as an experienced professional, you can work around that should you encounter it.
Debian had its issues too, look at all the bug reports that have been sitting for years.
BSD could be suitable, but Linux has the kernel and the drivers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:03PM
This is true. As an experienced professional, I uninstall Devuan and install FreeBSD instead. That's the best workaround.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Bot on Saturday September 16 2017, @09:21PM (1 child)
I dunno still about devuan but mx linux and antix seem good enough to me if you want to stay in .deb land.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:22PM
Debian can still be used without systemd, depending on one's needs. I use it for a desktop; by avoiding the full-blown KDE and GNOME I could avoid systemd.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:58PM
I would agree with and extend your remarks in that the unix boxes I haven't been able to turn into freebsd, get a systemd-free unix experience with Devuan. It just works. Kinda boring how well it works, what can you say about it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:00AM (2 children)
really stable?
s/Debian/Slackware/g
(as I've had far more Debian servers screw up on me than Slackware ones over the years..that's both monumental fubars and stupid little fuckups when various updates were applied)
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:59PM (1 child)
"Stable" doesn't just mean it doesn't crash. It also means it gets timely updates, especially when there are security issues discovered. It also means it's extensively tested by a wide base of users. Debian offered far more of those things than Slackware ever could have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:45PM
Slackware used to be entirely put together by one guy, who didn't care one iota about security. Last time I looked into it, I saw that that has changed for the better.
Most security flaws transcend Linux distributions (some affecting BSD too). You could keep an eye on the Debian security advisories while running Slackware, to be aware of the times when you're running unpatched software. The converse applies too: Slackware's advisory [slackware.com] about CVE-2017-7526 predates Debian's [debian.org] by nearly a month.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:07PM
only vile whores use macOS
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:47PM
Ubuntu, Raspbian, and a dozen other variants that use the apt-get package system.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:17PM (1 child)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Policies [wikipedia.org] and look at the table "Historical population". 2008 was "peak DD" with 1075. Crisis hit and two years (2009 and 2010) of numbers going down. Probably people having to focus in getting money instead of side projects. Later it recovered, but still below that record... and in 2016 it went down a bit again. systemd brouhaha took place around 2014 (they even voted "no" on keeping compat without non-systemd!?) and things took a bit of time to sink in so 2015 was still positive but 2016 is down (what future is there for Debian hurd or kbsd projects now? or any other package that systemd "obsoletes" via their tentacle creep?). Also crisis is not over (if ever?) and new generations seem to just go "social".
From bug reports, it seems DDs are overloaded, unmotivated, lost their magic touch. (So I am about all this FOSS "corporatization", becoming a monoculture (when RPM only? soonTM), pushing crap to keep their jobs and fighting for control, instead of finishing the old programs they inherited, so maybe I'm projecting.) Years ago a report or new comment was quickly acked, now it can take weeks. Packages with new releases take months to be packaged. You better get youtube-dl from DMO than official unstable if you want to access anything. Just poking around found one dh or similar helper package looking for maintainer. I hope that was just the exception and just hit two unlucky packages. I would also like to see the stats for NMI, both to fix a critical issue (big problem) or just to keep with API/ABIs (minor issue, yet it should be the DD in charge, right?).
But then I go and look at the Social Contract and wonder what happened to what wikipedia distills as "Not hiding problems with the software or organization." and "Staying focused on the users and the software that started the phenomenon." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Social_Contract [wikipedia.org] . Same page also says "Young said this would be a "kiss of death" for RedHat, implying it would constrain the company's ability to generate profit." and I wonder if ignoring the DSC is the kiss of death for Debian.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 17 2017, @12:01AM
Wikipedia confirms it: Debian is dying! :)