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posted by martyb on Wednesday September 27 2017, @10:15AM   Printer-friendly
from the No-Way! dept.

What was it that one learned through a great books curriculum? Certainly not "conservatism" in any contemporary American sense of the term. We were not taught to become American patriots, or religious pietists, or to worship what Rudyard Kipling called "the Gods of the Market Place." We were not instructed in the evils of Marxism, or the glories of capitalism, or even the superiority of Western civilization.

As I think about it, I'm not sure we were taught anything at all. What we did was read books that raised serious questions about the human condition, and which invited us to attempt to ask serious questions of our own. Education, in this sense, wasn't a "teaching" with any fixed lesson. It was an exercise in interrogation.

To listen and understand; to question and disagree; to treat no proposition as sacred and no objection as impious; to be willing to entertain unpopular ideas and cultivate the habits of an open mind — this is what I was encouraged to do by my teachers at the University of Chicago.

It's what used to be called a liberal education.

The University of Chicago showed us something else: that every great idea is really just a spectacular disagreement with some other great idea.

Bret Stephens's speech warrants a full read. It makes valuable points that we all need to hear, even on SN.


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  • (Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:47PM (7 children)

    by lcall (4611) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:47PM (#573984)

    If you try at those things and I try at those things, I think we can work together well.

  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:51PM (5 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:51PM (#573988) Journal

    Absolutely not. As long as you believe in a being that will fry most of the human race for eternity for not kissing its ass, we'll never see eye to eye. Jesus had a lot to say about people who were shiny on the outside and rotten on the inside.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 2, Informative) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:57PM (4 children)

      by lcall (4611) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:57PM (#573998)

      It seems better to ask questions than to make harsh broad statements. I said we could work together if we try at those things (and hopefully encourage others). I didn't say we will see eye to eye. Like the point of the article.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:06PM (3 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:06PM (#574005) Journal

        The only question that needs answering here is "are you Annihilationist/Universalist?" If not, not only will we never see eye to eye, but I will have to consider you either ignorant of what it is you say you believe or a malignant sociopath. In case you're wondering, there is a good Biblical case for either, largely hinging on the use of the Koine "aion[ios/ion]" and "kolasi[s/n]" rather than "aidios" and "timoria," and the historical fact that of the six major early church centers, only the Latin-speaking center at Carthage preached endless, conscious torture, if this is what you're worried about.

        In any case, though, if you are a divine command theorist, all these high-sounding morals you're going on about are stolen concepts from other worldviews, as if this is the case, yours cannot and does not include even the concept of morality let alone moral facts. This is not an attack; it is a consequence of the logic of DCT.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:11PM (2 children)

          by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:11PM (#574010) Journal

          Does my memory fail me, or is ical our assigned member of the Latter Day Saints? You are not going to convince her, Azuma. Nothing can defeat Mormon nice.

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:23PM

            by lcall (4611) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:23PM (#574018)

            A Mormon male. I give away software which lacks some things (like a demo video and slick installer or mobile support) but what it does have works very well (extremely fast & flexible personal knowledge organizer with a tutorial & docs; interchange features coming; AGPL):

                http://onemodel.org [onemodel.org]

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:32PM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:32PM (#574024) Journal

            Oh, Mormons are different. Whacky, but different. Most of them have three afterlife destinations, those being the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial realms; as I understand it most Mormons don't have a Hell proper. Their religion is also a Masonic con-job, and there's documentation to back it up, but as my own experience shows, religion grabs people powerfully.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:53PM

    by lcall (4611) on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:53PM (#573992)

    ...and encourage others to do the same.