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A gunman fired upon thousands of people attending a music festival on the Las Vegas Strip Sunday night, in a brutal attack that is blamed for at least 58 deaths, police say. In the mass shooting and panic that ensued, 515 people were injured. At least one of the dead is an off-duty police officer who was attending the concert.
Editorializing: Interesting how media always emphasize ISLAMIC terrorists, but downplay domestic terrorism as psychologically disturbed individual lone-wolfs.
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Over 50 dead in mass shooting in Las Vegas
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday October 02 2017, @05:47PM (13 children)
Precisely. If I were the average Afghani or Iraqi you bet your ass I'd be cheering on ISIS, in the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" sense anyway. Perspective, people!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 02 2017, @06:46PM (2 children)
I probably would too. I support the home team when someone is trying to kill members of it, their reasons be damned.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 02 2017, @08:20PM (1 child)
Yup, as would I. I would also probably bang little boys and goats, wipe my ass with my left hand, and send my 12 year old wife to the shed once a month. But I'm not from there, and it wouldn't make any of those things right in my eyes. And I thank God every damn day for this.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 02 2017, @09:14PM
Right or wrong don't matter when someone's trying to kill you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 02 2017, @07:03PM (9 children)
Careful. No middle easterner, and probably no Asian, considers the "enemey of mine enemy" as a "friend". They may work together for a common cause, but they will still stab each other in the back, cheerfully.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday October 02 2017, @09:16PM (8 children)
And you know this how? You know, infallibly, the contents of the minds of some 3.5 billion people? Impressive, Miss Cleo...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 02 2017, @09:39PM (3 children)
Yes, you missed, Cleo.
A one word answer to your question would be "tribalism". But, you will refuse to understand that. There are no "nations" in the mideast, as we understand nations. Pretty much everyone gives their loyalty first to their tribe, then to some leader that the tribe supports. Syrians don't support "Syria". They are tribal, and the "nation" of "Syria" is pretty much nonsense to them. That concept was pushed up on them by England, and the rest of the colonizing nations.
But, you won't accept that so try this:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/americas-strategy-failing-world-complex-use-enemy-enemy-friend-strategy.html [washingtonsblog.com]
The ancient idea that “The Enemy of My Enemy Is My Friend” is widely attributed to the Arabs. But it is actually much older … It originated in the 4th century B.C. in India. Kautilya – the “Indian Machiavelli” – wrote about the idea in the Sanskrit military book, the Arthashastra.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/iraq-enemy-my-enemy-not-my-friend [csis.org]
The proverb that the “enemy of my enemy is my friend” is not an Arab proverb, it is a Sanskrit proverb that predates the Prophet Muhammad by roughly 1,000 years. It is also a proverb with a dismal history in practice. In case after case, the “enemy of my enemy” has actually proven to have been an enemy at the time or turned into one in the future. The Mongols did not save Europe from the Turks, and the Soviet Union was scarcely an ally after the end of World War II.
____________________________________
Recent history has proven that whenever we believe that the enemy of our enemy is our friend, we make fools of ourselves. Time and time again, our "friends" have turned against us. Let's stop being fools, and stop believing that everyone who fights against Tyrant X must be friends. We are not. At BEST, we are merely allies, until such time as it becomes invonvenient to remain allies. At worst, our ally is secretly plotting with others to kill us as soon as our usefulness has ended.
Only the naive can possibly believe that everyone who resists North Korea are all members of one big happy family.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 03 2017, @04:25AM (2 children)
The Turks weren't enemies of European powers at the time of the Mongolian invasions. In fact, a fair portion of the Mongolian army were recruited/drafted proto-Turks (anyone who could ride and handle a bow in the saddle was guaranteed to become part of the Mongolian army, as I understand it). A better example are the rebellions that happened after Attila the Hun died in 453 AD. Some of the victors and their subsequent descendants were nasty pieces [wikipedia.org] of work.
But the thing to remember here is that even when you know someone will be in future conflict with you, it can still make sense to ally in a present conflict. The Second World War is a good example of that. Fighting the USSR at the same time as Nazi Germany would have been folly for the US and UK to do. Plus, it would have brought the risk that the USSR allies with Nazi Germany (using the same enemies of enemies strategy) to defeat the US/UK Commonwealth alliance. We certainly did not make fools out of ourselves by defeating the worse evil first.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 03 2017, @01:56PM (1 child)
Key word, though, in your post, is "alliance". Not "friends", but "allies". We were allied with Communist Russia, or the Soviet. We were never "friends" of the Soviet. They never believed that to be so, nor did we. We were, clearly, just allied, for the purpose of defeating a common enemy.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 03 2017, @08:37PM
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 02 2017, @10:25PM (3 children)
Please read this page. You'll gag on the partisanship, and you'll probably hate the man for badmouthing Obama and Clinton. But, his first paragraphs put that whole enemy of mine enemy into perspective.
https://www.steynonline.com/6839/the-enemy-of-my-enemy [steynonline.com]
"The Congo Civil War raged for most of the first decade of this century uncovered by CNN and The New York Times for want of any way to blame it on George W Bush. Among the estimated six million dead, many were eaten. The two parties to the conflict agreed on very little except that pygmies make an excellent entrée. Both sides hunted down them down as if they were the drive-thru fast-food of big game. While regarding them as sub-human, they believed that if you roasted their flesh and ate it you would gain magical powers."
Odd, isn't it, that our inclusive left media doesn't include much of the bloodshed in Africa. Rwanda, Congo, South Africa, Ethiopia - the list goes on and on. But, hey, it's the Dark Continent, no one wants to turn the light on, do they? Oh, but - let's not forget South Africa!! What's his name, Nelson Mandela, became president after decades in jails and prisons, right? All without a bunch of killing, right? Uh-huh - right.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday October 02 2017, @10:59PM (1 child)
You make a lot of assumptions you really shouldn't. Just to pick one, I am not a fan of Obama or either Clinton, and would like to see every president we've had since and including Nixon strung up for war crimes. If you think I didn't know what kind of diplomatic Hell middle-east tribalism causes, you're also out of line. Try a little charity now and then, will you? Not everyone on the planet who disagrees with you is ill-informed.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 03 2017, @02:39AM
Another article, in some ways similar to the one above. The partisanship is from the other side of the aisle, but it's still there. Still, he explains pretty clearly that the saying is quite wrong.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/39427-through-the-looking-glass-how-can-we-recognize-our-friends-in-the-mixed-up-world-of-donald-trump [truth-out.org]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 03 2017, @01:38AM
Farther to the left than CNN and the New York Times, there is coverage:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/04/remembering-rwanda-and-clinton-failure/ (Rwanda)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2003/01/out-madness-matriarchy/ (Rwanda)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/what-you-need-know-about-famine-horn-africa-backgrounder/ (Ethiopia)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/10/us-drone-warfare-ethiopia-edition/ (Ethiopia)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/congo-dodd-frank-conflict-minerals/ (Congo)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/bosco-ntaganda-congo-warlord/ (Congo)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/fear-loathing-congo-war-criminal/ (Congo)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/11/congo-conflict-endangered-gorillas-are-pawns-0/ (Congo)
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-invisible-war/ (Congo)
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/ethiopias-becoming-more-homophobic-as-we-speak/ (Ethiopia)
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/ethiopian-troops-enter-somalia/ (Ethiopia)
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/ethiopian-strongman-zenawi-dies/ (Ethiopia)
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/rwanda-says-france-participated-in-genocide/ (Rwanda)
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/david-rieff-on-africas-world-war/ (Rwanda)
https://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0417-04.htm (Rwanda)
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/05/16/why-dont-we-care-about-congos-dead (Congo)
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/01/24/drc-invisible-war (Congo)
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/01/24/ethiopias-invisible-crisis (Ethiopia)
https://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0525-04.htm (Ethiopia)
https://www.democracynow.org/2007/10/8/they_are_destroying_the_female_species (Congo)
https://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/30/congo_humanitarian_crisis_worsens_amidst_renewed (Congo)
https://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/23/corporations_reaping_millions_as_congo_suffers (Congo)
https://www.democracynow.org/2008/11/13/congelese_citizens_caught_in_the_crossfire (Congo)
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/6/21/headlines/un_militia_linked_to_drc_committing_human_rights_abuses_in_kasai (Congo)
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/4/25/headlines/congo_video_appears_to_show_killing_of_two_un_investigators (Congo)
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/headlines/ethiopia_prime_minister_declares_state_of_emergency_amid_protests (Ethiopia)
https://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/22/horn_of_africa_famine_millions_at (Ethiopia)
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/7/headlines/ethiopia_23_die_in_disputed_circumstances_at_addis_ababa_prison (Ethiopia)
https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/7/refusing_to_call_it_genocide_documents (Rwanda)
https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/7/20_years_later_rwanda_commemorates_genocide (Rwanda)
https://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/30/congo_humanitarian_crisis_worsens_amidst_renewed (Rwanda)
https://www.democracynow.org/2010/8/31/draft_un_report_accuses_rwandan_troops (Rwanda)
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/2/10/headlines/south_africa_fistfights_erupt_at_president_zumas_national_address (South Africa)
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/30553-rwanda-how-to-deal-with-a-million-genocide-suspects (Rwanda)
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/23017-us-role-in-rwandan-genocide-a-look-at-rwandan-politics-then-and-now (Rwanda)
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/24034-hate-as-a-contagion-the-role-of-media-in-the-rwandan-genocide (Rwanda)
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/24374-the-life-and-crimes-of-war-criminal-bosco-ntaganda (Rwanda)
People were killed in the struggle against apartheid. Who says otherwise?
New York Times on Mandela [nytimes.com]: