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Police and Voters Clash During Catalan Independence Referendum

posted by CoolHand on Tuesday October 03 2017, @12:42PM   Printer-friendly

takyon writes:

Police and would-be voters have clashed during a Catalan independence referendum held on Sunday:

Scenes of chaos and violence unfolded in Catalonia as an independence referendum deemed illegal by Madrid devolved quickly on Sunday. As police followed orders from the central government to put a stop to the vote, they fired rubber bullets at unarmed protesters and smashed through the glass at polling places, reports The Associated Press. Three hundred and thirty-seven people were injured, some seriously, according to Catalonia's government spokesman.

Spain's Interior Ministry said a dozen police officers were injured. NPR's Lauren Frayer reports from Barcelona that some people were throwing rocks down at officers from balconies. Yet the violence came from all directions.

"Horrible scenes," Lauren reports. "Police dragging voters out of polling stations, some by the hair."

Scuffles erupted as riot police forcefully removed hundreds of would-be voters from polling places across Barcelona, the Catalan capitol, reports AP. Nevertheless, many people, managed to successfully cast their ballots across the region after waiting in lines hundreds-of-people-deep, including the elderly and families with small children, says Reuters.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said that he did not acknowledge the vote and called it "illegal".

Also at NYT, Bloomberg, The Washington Post, and BBC:

Catalan emergency officials say 761 people have been injured as police used force to try to block voting in Catalonia's independence referendum.

Update: Catalan referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood'
Spain Vows to Enforce the Law in Rebel Catalonia
Catalonia Leaders Seek to Make Independence Referendum Binding

Previously: Spain Trying to Stop Catalonia Independence Referendum

Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 2) by zocalo on Tuesday October 03 2017, @02:46PM (3 children)

    by zocalo (302) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @02:46PM (#576606)
    While I agree that turnout does matter, and for important referenda topics like independance, as undertaken by Scotland, the UK (Brexit), and now (kinda) Catalonia, should absolutely have a minimum bar requirement, in practice that tends to get overlooked. Assuming the referendum was properly sanctioned (as it was with Scotland and the UK), then without that bar then mass failure to vote is generally read by the majority side as an abivalence that can be incorporated into their mandate - they didn't care either way, so we're good, right? - whereas the losing side is pretty much sunk; voter apathy is never a valid reason for a re-vote. In Catalonia's case, since Madrid clearly did not sanction the vote, that latter argument is much stronger and the poor turnout doesn't really help Catalonia's cause, even though plenty of entirely legal elections around the work have been decided on much lower turnouts.

    As you say though, Madrid fucked up big time; if they'd been able to achieve the same poor turnout without such heavy handed tactics then they'd have the high ground at this point, but instead they've come across as a brutal dictators with shades of Franco trampling over a peaceful protest that neither they nor they EU recognised. The latter is particularly important given that Catalonia hopes to join the EU, which would clearly be impossible without both the EU recognising them as a sovereign state and Spain not using their EU membership veto to bar Catalonia's entry.
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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 03 2017, @03:57PM (1 child)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday October 03 2017, @03:57PM (#576629) Journal

    The latter is particularly important given that Catalonia hopes to join the EU, which would clearly be impossible without both the EU recognising them as a sovereign state and Spain not using their EU membership veto to bar Catalonia's entry.

    Madrid is in a pickle. They screwed the pooch in Spain, but did they also screw the pooch for the EU? Does the EU sit it out and let Spain sort out its own mess, or do they side with Madrid as the official holder of that country's vote in the EU? If the EU intervenes on the side of Catalonia, how long before the Basques split off from Madrid and Paris (the Basque region straddles the border), and separatist movements pick up speed in other EU member states? Belgium would probably have split in half a while ago if Brussels weren't the host city for the EU; the Flemish and Walloons hate each other.

    It's hard to imagine the Catalans taking up arms against Madrid, but I don't think mass strikes and protests are going to get them anywhere. Do they sever bridges and roads and throw officials from Madrid out of the region?

    How emotionally invested are Spaniards from Valencia and Galicia in keeping the Catalans in the union, too? Do they care that much? Are they willing to forcibly repress the Catalans?

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  • (Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Thursday October 05 2017, @03:38PM

    by FakeBeldin (3360) on Thursday October 05 2017, @03:38PM (#577474) Journal

    turnout does matter, and for important referenda topics like independence,[ ... ] should absolutely have a minimum bar requirement,

    This. A thousand times this. Any referendum should have an a priori turnout requirement.
    Similarly, such impactful decisions should be decided with supermajority, not 50% + 1.
    Note that either of these requirements would have killed Brexit, and any sensible turnout requirement would have killed the Catalan referendum.

    Sure, some folks were prevented from voting - but, any sensible turnout requirement would be so far beyond the current turnout, that it's not "some folks were prevented", but "we missed 50% of the votes".
    (Note that being aware that you missed another 50% of the votes is in itself more than enough reason to not accept the outcome.)