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Spotted at Hackaday is a story on positive reinforcement to train crows to pick up litter:
A Dutch startup wants to teach the crow population to pick up cigarette butts in exchange for bird treats.
The whole Corvidae family of birds is highly intelligent so it shouldn’t be a problem training them that they will get a reward for depositing something the Hominidae family regularly throw on the street where the birds live. This idea is in turn an evolution of the open-source Crow Box.
For some, leveraging the intelligence of animals is more appealing than programming drones which could do the same thing. A vision system mixed with a drone and a manipulator could fulfull[sic] the same function but animals are self-repairing and autonomous without our code. The irony of this project is that, although it's probably fairly easy to train crows to recognize cigarette butts, the implementation hinges on having a vision system that can recognize the butts in order to properly train the crows in the first place.
(Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 10 2017, @04:10PM (26 children)
Lung-Nazi. You'd have to stand in the big middle of an outdoors crowd of smokers for extended periods per day for quite a very long time to pick up even a minor health issue.
Side note: My butts are entirely biodegradable in under a month, being as they're made of nothing but paper and leaves.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by requerdanos on Tuesday October 10 2017, @04:21PM (8 children)
You may be missing the point: though some (not very bright) people claim that the problem in this activity is "health problems", that's only a tangent. People who light (paper and) leaves on fire and suck on them emit noxious fumes that *smell bad* and irritate the eyes, nose, and sensibilities of anyone not involved in said activity. This is rude and annoying if done within the olfactory range of other people.
If there were people who could perform extended silent-but-deadly farting for ten to fifteen minutes at the time in crowded public places, you would have a nearly identical problem, and saying "Hey it technically won't kill you unless you witness it for a long time" is a pointless and non-responsive rejoinder to both.
They all used to be that way, until fiberglass-never-biodegrade filters were "just what the doctor ordered [imgix.net]."
(Score: 2, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 10 2017, @04:38PM
Nah, the health argument is the most common so it's the one I addressed. As to addressing yours: you have no right written anywhere, even in etiquette manuals, to not be offended by others unless they are intentional in their offense. Most smokers are anything but intentionally offending you. They simply want a five minute or so break from their day, preferably somewhere out of the cold and rain but they're willing to put up with even those to accommodate non-smokers.
There is very much a line of circumstance beyond which accommodating you ceases to be honoring a reasonable and polite request and becomes putting up with an absurd proposition from an asshole.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Tuesday October 10 2017, @04:49PM (3 children)
That part I'll give you. But I think his reply covers the vast majority of cases. You can smoke, or fart, all you want, outdoors, and it really doesn't bother me a bit. Even if I'm quite close to you, having a face to face conversation, it's not going to bother me unless you blow it right in my face or the wind shifts. Also, even if I do happen to catch a momentary whiff of someone as I'm passing by them in a public open space and find it unpleasant, it lasts only an instant, I'm not going to backtrack to confront someone for inadvertently causing me a brief moment of discomfort.
Now if people are lighting up in elevators, sure, then they're being the assholes. But I more often see it the other way around. People are indoctrinated on how bad smoking is (which makes a certain amount of sense, we should warn them not to start) and once people learn a rule some inevitably feel like they should be enforcing it on others. The term "lung nazi" may be an offensive one, and it may represent a stereotype, but like many stereotypes this is one that exists because we all know someone who portrays it. When they cross a large open space in order to confront someone you know it's not the smoke itself that bothered them, it's the fact that someone was smoking.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ledow on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:42PM (1 child)
I ask people not to smoke near me for the same reason I ask them not to breathe all over me, or to wear some deodorant. The smell can be pervasive and offensive. My mother is a life-long smoker. Honestly, she's done more damage to me than any random smoker ever would. But non-smoking people know if I've even BEEN to my parents house because I come back smelling of smoke. I'm quite used to it being a background smell so I often don't, but when you've had a break away, you gain the ability to smell it again. Those people who already smoke are blind to it, but it's there.
There's a reason eBay users say things like "comes from a smoke-free home"... because, you know, we CAN SMELL IT even after it's been sent halfway across the country in a parcel, and it can stink - it's not just us being fussy, clothes and soft toys especially suck it up and it can reek for weeks and it smells like something is on fire. And if it's something like a child's toy or a gift that you're selling, it's downright offensive to be reeking like that, in the same way you wouldn't want it to smell of wet dog or bad breath.
However, I don't care about my health being affected - I'll walk away. That's not the issue. An issue is that you're an addict who stopped getting benefit (buzz/whatever) from the nicotine years ago and now you're just stuck in a loop having to have it in order to get back to "normal". That bugs me in a person. Just how weak are you? You're supposed to be adults and you can't see it or combat it.
But even THAT won't make me stop you smoking. You know who the last guy I told to cut it out was? Some idiot at an beer garden (think pub where you can drink outside, quite civilised despite the name) who was puffing on some stupid vape contraption that made him look like he had the world's largest asthma inhaler (ironic) literally blowing huge fucking clouds (no exaggeration - you could lose an adult inside them for several seconds) of some horrible sickly apple-flavoured shite towards everyone else. He was blissfully unaware (but I find it hard to believe that NOBODY who lives/works with him has told him that it's obnoxious), while everyone around was moving tables and wafting it out of their faces and trying to eat with some fake apple air-freshener-like smell pervades an entire open-air eating area. Now THAT'S offensive. Harmless, maybe, but still offensive.
I don't care that you want to kill yourself, so long as you're paying for it (pay your taxes, pay the duty on your cigarettes, pay your healthcare if applicable).
I don't think there's a significant risk to myself if you're smoking over there and I'm sitting over here, so long as it's not reaching me - cigarette smoke basically won't.
But what I find irritating are the habits that go with it:
- pervasive smells inflicted on others (however that's done!), it can be like sitting next to someone who's been working in a bonfire all day.
- getting tetchy because you're five minutes late with your break.
- trying to make roll-ups and spreading shit all over the table that you don't clean up (and the horrible licking and lip-smacking noises)
- throwing cigarette butts on the floor. Hell, just pinch the damn thing out and stick it back in a tobacco box or something if there's honestly nowhere to put it.
- talking constantly about giving up and then never lasting more than a week (same bugbear for people on diets!).
- the coughing fits where you then light one up two seconds after coughing your guts up over everyone else.
Kill yourself with drugs, smoking, alcohol, whatever. Just don't inflict it on me, or other people, and have some common decency while you're there. To be honest, all the last bits of that list are the reasons I get annoyed with smokers. Not that they disappear for five minutes and have a quick cigarette.
(To be honest, my problem with drug addicts is not that they're addicted - it's that they can leave shit lying around for kids to find, encourage others to do it, and the side-effects - e.g. violence or crime to support their habit... that bugs me a million times more than the possibility they might just keel over and die one day through a habit that they knew about the risks of and continued with. Before you laugh, during and between the World Wars people had cocaine, opium and heroin readily available. People used it. It was accepted. You could buy it in London shops. Hell, Sherlock Holmes is portrayed as an opium addict, and nobody goes "ARGH!". Because they did NOT have the downright inconsiderate disregard for others. I'm much more offended by your failure to clean up after yourself, and your disregard for others, than any disregard you have for your own health).
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday October 10 2017, @11:54PM
So you admit that you aren't just lung-nazi, but righteous-nazi as well?
I (and anyone) can be as strong or as weak as they want/afford/etc.
As long as as it doesn't affect you, I'd appreciate if you could keep your value judgments for yourself and don't try to impose them on me - they are as hurtful for my mind as smoke from others would be to your comfort.
I'm already doing it - not inflicting anything of my habits to you.
In return, I'd be grateful if you stop your 'pollution with righteousness' - I'm getting annoyed/triggered by this, very much like you do by the presence of inconsiderate smokers in public places.
(Dam', I'm an adult and, for reasons I don't need to share with anyone, I chose to continue smoking. I find it rude to call me "weak" when you know next to nothing about me, and doing this annoys me).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Funny) by sjames on Tuesday October 10 2017, @08:28PM
I don't smoke, but I do find it funny to mime smoking sometimes just to watch passers by pointedly hacking up a lung.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:41PM
I'm a non-smoker, but I'd hardly say cigarettes smell bad, at least while they're being smoked. Now, the stale smell of smoke on clothing, that's nothing pleasant...but it's not really any worse than some of the crap people buy to spray on themselves because they think it smells nice. Nevermind what some body sprays will do to your eyes and nose. The best deterrent to keeping adults away from school children is Axe body spray, blech. Never mind car exhaust, which in addition to all of these issues, ALSO actually is a health hazard.
I guess the point is, if you don't like being around what other people do, maybe a city isn't the place for you. Go out to the country, and give the cows some Poo-Pourri.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by sjames on Tuesday October 10 2017, @08:22PM (1 child)
So when will the intense perfume/cologne with it's eye burning sneeze inducing (and occasionally worse) noxiousness be banned?
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Wednesday October 11 2017, @01:53PM
Shortly after someone has decided to wear "Tactical SC" as a cologne would be my guess ;)
(I'm actually curious about what the legal status would be for that)
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:51PM (4 children)
I don't care about smoking outside as long as you are not clogging up narrow sidewalks or standing next to doorways. (Which always happens when it gets cold out.)
The issue is smoker's throwing butts on th ground. And don't claim you don't do it. Every smoker I have ever seen does it when there is no cigarette safe container nearby. Finished one in the car? Out the window.
Stomp it out on the ground then throw it in the trash, no problem. I have never seen someone pick up a stomped butt.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday October 10 2017, @06:39PM
Exactly.
I can usually avoid smoking zones, those smoking stations (marked by the Butt disposal pylons) invariably are littered with butts, not to mention the ash flicked off at random and tracked into the establishment. But the filters persist in the environment for decades.
https://www.thoughtco.com/are-cigarette-butts-biodegradable-1204105 [thoughtco.com]
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/15/ban-cigarette-filters-hazardous-tobacco-waste [theguardian.com]
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/20/Suppl_1/i25 [bmj.com]
But The Buzzard doesn't smoke filtered Cigs, so even though he admits to tossing the butts on the ground, and doesn't lobby loudly for publicly funded health care, he expects to be above reproach.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 10 2017, @11:58PM (2 children)
I don't - I have the pack of ciggies I took it from - the but fits back there if I don't find a trash can.
So long for your claim of every smoker - one counterexample is enough to demolish an absolute generalization.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by t-3 on Wednesday October 11 2017, @12:55AM (1 child)
When I used to smoke (switched to vaping, still smoke occasionally if I'm drinking though), I would do this, but always field strip the butt first - the ash and stale smoke smell would ruin the rest of the pack for me if I put it back in without stripping it.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 11 2017, @01:38AM
Pretty much doing the same, but rather to make sure I'm not putting some embers in my pocket (I'm no longer that sensible to the taste/smell of the ciggies - I'm beyond the point in which I consider smoking a pleasure).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday October 10 2017, @06:34PM (3 children)
> Side note: My butts are entirely biodegradable in under a month
But most assholes litter the place with butts that take 5 years or more to degrade (according to PMI, so we can assume best-case).
Regardless of actual degradation time, we should train the crow to follow the smokers and drop the discarded butts in their house. Extra reward if they drop them on the bed or inside any cookware.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 10 2017, @08:28PM
That would amuse, yes.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by t-3 on Wednesday October 11 2017, @01:00AM (1 child)
In an urban environment 5+ years are probably right, but a cigarrete filter will degrade pretty rapidly when buried or composted - most of them are made of a synthetic or processed cellulose. I know a guy who used to collect butts from the collectors at local factories, shred them with an old lawnmower, and use them to mulch his rose garden.
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Wednesday October 11 2017, @01:59PM
Well, the fibrous structure makes it a decent soil aggregate (just like gravel, perlite, rockwool or leca-pellets), no need for it to decompose.
Also, nicotine is a pretty brutal insecticide, so making the soil toxic with it will really reduce the pests.
Whenever I get aphids I either get a can of neonicotines or get a few cigarettes, let them soak for a few days and then spray my plants with it.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 10 2017, @08:35PM (6 children)
I'm not a smoker, but a friend once brought me some cigars fresh from Cuba (if memory serves): they were fresh rolled, I got them like 3 days later.
My god, they were the best things I've ever smoked.
On my bucket list: move south somewhere and move next door to a lady who rolls cigars against her thigh. Smoke myself to death.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 10 2017, @08:50PM (5 children)
Oh, shit yes. Them commie bastards can grow n roll some fine, fine tobacco. Must be using all the bullshit their leaders shovel at them for fertilizer.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11 2017, @03:45AM (4 children)
More like the lack of the additives and poisons that the Capitalist Pigs put into their cigs to make them more addictive.
It's the Tobacco Industry's version of crack nicotine: http://www.npr.org/2012/09/07/160752629/the-secrets-in-a-cigarette [npr.org]
Diammonium Phosphate=freebasing agent: http://www.rjrt.com/commercial-integrity/ingredients/cigarette-ingredients/ [rjrt.com]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424107/ [nih.gov]
I'm wondering if they would do similar stuff to marijuana...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 11 2017, @11:04AM (3 children)
Yup, which is why I roll my own from largely un-fucked-with "pipe tobacco". That and the fact that it costs me roughly $25 a month.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Wednesday October 11 2017, @02:05PM (2 children)
Wait.. you are telling us you do all-plant cogarettes and also use pipe-tobacco? You might just be the one cigarette-smoker I like then.
A few questions then.
1) Do you still drag the smoke into your lungs? (Only crap quality (cigarette) tobacco needs this, other kinds is enough to keep in the oral cavity)
2) What stops you from starting to roll your own cigarrs?
3) Why not smoking pipe instead=
4) Do consider looking into growing and curing your own tobacco.
4b) The leaves are great instead of paper (classical wrapper)
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 11 2017, @02:31PM (1 child)
1) Yep. The feel of smoke entering your lungs is essential to smoking. I could never smoke anything and not inhale.
2) Nothing except the lack of wrapping leaves and skill.
3) I do. "As well" rather than "instead of". I'm a bit snobby about what tobacco I put in a pipe though, so it's too expensive for an hourly vice.
4) I've looked into it but I'm currently renting rather than buying, so I don't want to till up the yard and plant crops.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Wednesday October 11 2017, @03:06PM
1) Try it, especially with new blends. It will allow you to fully experience the flavour of some blends since some subtleties otherwise will be lost (At least try it for a few puffs of the pipe - kinda like how one rolls a new beer on the tounge to fully experience it before going into enjoyment mode rather than exploring - if nothing else just to whet your apetite for the first "normal" inhale :)
2+4) Tobacco is remarkably easy to grow and can be grown and cured even in apartments (some snus-users do it over here) - try growing 2-4 plants in pots (quart-sized are enough) for leaves for cigarrs (or cigarrilos). Youtube has some quite useful videos on rolling cigarrs.
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Thursday October 12 2017, @07:54PM
False. I'm asthmatic. It affects me instantly in a very direct way. People who are allergic to smoke will also react immediately to it and it, producing immediate health issues even for them. Even though I'm all for people smoking if they want (freedom of choice as long as people don't interfere with my freedom of choice), I felt the need to debunk this idea of yours that no one is affected until a long time has passed.