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Federal authorities are responding to a shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, a small community southeast of San Antonio.
In a press conference Sunday night, an official from the Texas Department of Public Safety described the scene: Around 11:20 am, the suspect, dressed in black, approached the church and began firing an assault rifle. He then entered the church and continued firing.
Gov. Greg Abbott confirmed that at least 26 people were killed. A Texas Department of Public Safety official said the ages of the victims ranged from 5 to 72 years old. The AP reports that the pastor's 14-year-old daughter is among the dead.
The Department of Public Safety confirmed to NPR that at least 20 others were wounded. A DPS official said in the press conference that the gunman was confronted by an armed civilian outside of the church.
The shooter, who was found dead in neighboring Guadalupe County, has been identified as Devin Kelley, 26, a former Air Force member.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by SpockLogic on Monday November 06 2017, @03:20AM (42 children)
The American Disease™ almost unfettered access to weapons of war that kill with brutal efficiency.
We can be sure of :-
1. There will be a deafening silence from the traitorous NRA (the propaganda arm of the small arms manufacturing industry).
2. All the craven cowards in Congress, who considers a few dead citizens acceptable collateral damage in the war against any form of gun safety, will only offer Thoughts and Prayers.
3. It will happen again.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @03:25AM (21 children)
Define "weapons of war". Does that include hob-nailed boots? Dogs? Horses? Sticks? Stones? Shrubbery? Trees?
We should definitely ban horses. Use for thousands of years in every bloody war.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @03:34AM (13 children)
Name a use for guns that doesn't involve killing.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @03:47AM
Target practice! To improve your skills at... Oh... Nevermind...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @03:50AM (2 children)
15 Olympic shooting competitions [olympic.org]
Tens of thousands of non-Olympic competitive shooting events every year don't involve killing anything or anybody.
Next!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:07AM (1 child)
How many of those Olympic events use semiautomatic rifles with 40+ round clips?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:41AM
None, hence why no one watches them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @03:51AM
There's a whole bunch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sports#Gun_shooting_sports [wikipedia.org]
Are you a straw man or are you going to move the goalposts?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @03:56AM (5 children)
Killing is reason enough. Some people need killing. Sorry, but this is how it goes. If you break into my grandma's house, she doesn't need to make it a "fair fight" and go at you with her fists.
But just for fun, here is a non-killing use:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/03/eagle-eyed-army-sharpshooter-frees-eagle-hanging-upside-down-in-tree.html [foxnews.com]
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/07/03/army-vet-rescues-bald-eagle-dangling-rope-75-foot-tree-mowing-branches-rifle-daily-mail/ [breitbart.com]
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:05AM (3 children)
Fox News AND Breitbart! Well, that settles it, then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:33AM (2 children)
It's also at huffingtonpost but I prefer not to support such a biased site. I'll reconsider if they ever decide to support (or merely tolerate!) President Trump's effort to make America great again.
Run the huffingtonpost news headlines through something that swaps the words "white" and "black". The result looks like Stormfront or Daily Stormer! This is not acceptable.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:43AM
I agree huffpo has grown particularly pitiful. I used to read it and Drudge side by side daily to get a walk down both sides of the echo chamber, but nowadays it's a 5 second scan to see if they have posted anything but drivel. BBC and Der Spiegel are the only real news sources anymore. Everything else in the American media are trying to re-litigate the last presidential election.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Monday November 06 2017, @04:45AM
Indeed, this is plagiarism. No, worse that that, it's a copyright crime!!!
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:10AM
We Americans destroy the environment like we're paid by the acre to do it, but saving one (albeit majestic) bird justifies putting semiautomatic weapons in the hands of criminals? Your argument is not convincing.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:02AM
Hunting. Yes, that's killing, smart guy, but not humans. And many families I grew up with in the West relied on their kills for their meat all year. Also, guns are for protection. If you live in rural areas with bears and other large predators, bet you'd feel better knowing you had a way to fend them off. Then there are the human predators you can protect yourself from. People who have been blessed to grow up in gentler urban contexts can scarcely believe this now, but not too long ago many safe places were warzones.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 06 2017, @06:00AM
Self-defense. Most applications of guns in self-defense don't involve killing, say, if I scare off an intruder by brandishing a fire arm.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:09AM (6 children)
Standard issue infantry carbine? You know, the Model 16? The Colt AR-15? A military firearm? The kind of thing that attracts loonies?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:24AM (5 children)
I enjoy shooting assault rifles. At targets at a range. I'm not half bad at it. It's a challenge to hit something that small that far away. Controlling your breathing and weapon handling to choose the right moment takes practice and refinement. Am I a loonie for enjoying the sport of it?
There's also an element of connecting with history and contemporary events by knowing what it is to fire a gun, to better appreciate all those who took up, and take up, arms to defend our country. Is that crazy, too?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:57AM
2 x yes.
Next!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @05:15AM (3 children)
That's not particularly crazy, but it also doesn't necessitate people owning their own firearms or having access to large amounts of ammunition.
Target practice and hunting are the only legitimate reasons for a civilian to ever use a firearm. Self-defense is a bullshit excuse and rarely works out well. If you're wanting to protect your family, you're better off investing in stronger internal doors and carrying cellphones constantly. Because a firearm is far more likely to kill the owner or a close associate than to be used in self-defense.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Monday November 06 2017, @06:17AM (2 children)
Then who does own those firearms? Leasing them from government? And target practice goes through ammunition quickly. An hour of intense target practice could easily go through as much ammunition as the shooting of the story.
Apparently, it worked well in the story. And there are studies [cnsnews.com] indicating that firearms are used hundreds of thousands of times a year without significant injury to any party:
A "use" doesn't mean shooting someone.
500,000 to 3 million uses per year is much higher than all deaths from firearms by more than an order of magnitude.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday November 06 2017, @09:52AM (1 child)
An hour? It's been quite a few years since I shot regularly, but back then I remember we averaged about one shot every 4-5 seconds with an SA80 (if we were actually aiming to get close to the centre of the head or chest on the target, not rapid firing). Even target shooting with a bolt action rifle where you're aiming to hit a ring in the middle of the target that's about the same size as the bullet at the far end of the range averaged about one shot every 20-30 seconds. At that rate, an hour would be 120-180 shots. TFA doesn't say how many shots were fired, but shooting 120 times and hitting only 26 people is pretty poor, especially for someone with military training.
sudo mod me up
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 06 2017, @03:31PM
So what is the point of your post?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @03:45AM (16 children)
Well France doesn't allow people to run around with guns, so what's the weapon of choice for mass murder there? Trucks. Drive one fast into a crowd of people, and presto mass murder achieved. So do we call that the "French disease," that they won't get rid of trucks despite their repeated use in committing mass murder? I mean what the hell is wrong with them that they can't do the obvious? How about the obvious of not allowing Muslims to have and drive trucks?
Oh, right. Because it won't work.
And though I am appalled by all this sort of thing and believe this society is coming apart at the seams, I would like to pick a little bit of a bone with the smug assertion of moral superiority coming from Europeans or any others on this score. Have we also not been treated to news of mass murders committed all too frequently in their societies of late? Even the Scandinavians have not been spared (breivik).
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:02AM (7 children)
France isn't having more than one vehicle attack per day, are they? How many of these attacks have actually taken place in France? Your bullshit doesn't pass the smell test.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:07AM (6 children)
There was the truck murder in Nice. I forget where the other recent one was there. Oh, right, then there was the Charlie hebdo incident that was committed with all those illegal weapons they're not supposed to have, so the gun ban totally prevented that one. Nope, you're right, bad things like this only happen to america because america sucks, right?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:16AM (1 child)
Citations:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France [wikipedia.org]
Lots of vehicle attacks in there. But really, can you blame one for forgetting some of the specifics when incidents of the "French disease" have become so common?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday November 06 2017, @04:17PM
Two instances of this so-called French disease this year, neither of which was fatal.
Which of those two twos was hard for you to count to, and was causing your confusion?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:17AM (3 children)
Bad things like this happen very regularly here in America. And if you're going to try to put words in my mouth you should capitalize "America" properly. I guess your disrespect for our country isn't limited to acceptance of mass murders and your support for making semi-automatic weapons available to criminals.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:26AM (2 children)
Typing on a tablet, jackanapes.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:33AM (1 child)
So am I. Perhaps you can use one of your guns to press "Shift" next time? I guess you don't stand for the National Anthem since that level of respect takes effort as well.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:53AM
Puerile and petty, and witless. Mass murder is everywhere around the world now, and instead of delving into why that is, you snipe on title case? To accomplish what, exactly? Blow us all away with how clever you are? To blame me for the murderous thoughts and deeds of others? To blandly accept your groupthink when the evidence all says gun control does not stop violence? It doesn't. For shame. A community of people was murdered in their sanctuary today and you choose to use that as an opportunity to opine on punctuation. Could you be more fatuous?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:20AM (3 children)
Now I want you to justify that with solid numbers. Show us stats from reputable sources that show us that the number of truck attacks and number of dead per such attack results in comparable overall fatality rates when adjusted for population size.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:35AM (2 children)
At this time has any AC in this thread successfully explained how arming the population would prevent a vehicle ramming attack; the vehicle attackers are almost universally dispatched by law enforcement, and not urban vigilantes open carrying AR-15s in a walmart.
TBH i'd be more afraid of a mass shooting in the USA than a vehicle ramming attack in either the USA or France.
- yet another AC.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @04:58AM (1 child)
Yeah I forgot the Paris nightclub killings. Gun control totally prevented that, too.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @06:25PM
Retard.
(Score: 2) by jimshatt on Monday November 06 2017, @11:20AM (3 children)
Besides, that's not really an argument against gun control.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 06 2017, @02:40PM (2 children)
"Unless you know of a way to transport goods by road without some sort of heavy vehicle?"
I do, because it predated the advent of the semi and was widespread. It did run on rails, but it is pretty damn hard to commandeer and randomly drive into a crowd of pedestrians. The street-level ones mostly carried passengers, but there's no reason they couldn't carry cargo.
The point I'm trying to make is that if you don't have guns, you'll kill with something else if you really want to do that. Trucks, acid, bombs, fire, knives, airplanes. Those are all methods that have been used for mass murder in recent years.
I think it's past time to tackle the stressors that are causing our collective sanity to be lost. Inequality and corruption are huge ones. We'd need to put the white collar criminals in business and government in real jail to do real, hard time. Building a healthcare system that everyone has access to, including for mental health, is another big one. Tackling long-festering issues like police violence against minorities is another one (and this is one where people on the Left need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and accept their culpability on this issue, too). It's because we have shirked that hard work that these phenomena have burgeoned. They will spiral until collapse if we don't. I really hope that enough people can realize that and act before it's too late.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by jimshatt on Tuesday November 07 2017, @12:23PM (1 child)
Good luck laying railroad tracks to every shopping area, btw.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 07 2017, @01:54PM
"Good luck laying railroad tracks to every shopping area, btw."
Don't have to. There were entities called railroads that did all that a long time ago. In most cases, those rail lines are still there, if unused. Some have been converted to bike or walking trails, but they can be quickly reverted to rails because surveying and smoothing the grades is the time-consuming thing. In many American cities streetcar rails are still there, under the pavement. I can go to downtown Brooklyn and find stretches of bare cobblestone and rails that served the warehouses that are now high-priced condominiums. In short, rails already were run to shopping areas, and a great many of them are still there under the surface.
Now, I don't think any government will do such a thing. But they could, if they really wanted to nerf the world.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @03:49AM (1 child)
The NRA is far from being "the propaganda arm of the small arms manufacturing industry". It wasn't long ago that they were pretty well fine with gun control.
The members started to revolt. The members sent in lots of angry complaints. The members started to switch over to other pro-gun organizations, giving the NRA a serious threat of membership decline.
The NRA got the message, loud and clear. Now they do what members want. It's not exactly what the industry wants. It's what millions of gun owners want.
This, by the way, is where the NRA's real power comes from. It's not just lobbying. It's millions of votes.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06 2017, @04:11AM
That's some real fine NRA propaganda right there! Wow, so slick and grassrootsy! Must be Russian!
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Monday November 06 2017, @07:31AM
"Give me Liberty or give me death" were words first spoken by a man far greater than either of us.