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posted by takyon on Wednesday November 08 2017, @04:11PM   Printer-friendly
from the sinister-nix dept.

Professor Andrew S. Tanenbaum from the Department of Computer Science at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam wrote "An Open Letter to Intel" regarding Intel's use of MINIX 3 to run the Intel Management Engine (video) built into their processors:

Thanks for putting a version of MINIX 3 inside the ME-11 management engine chip used on almost all recent desktop and laptop computers in the world. I guess that makes MINIX the most widely used computer operating system in the world, even more than Windows, Linux, or MacOS. And I didn't even know until I read a press report about it. Also here and here and here and here and here (in Dutch), and a bunch of other places.

[...] Note added later: Some people have pointed out online that if MINIX had a GPL license, Intel might not have used it since then it would have had to publish the modifications to the code. Maybe yes, maybe no, but the modifications were no doubt technical issues involving which mode processes run in, etc. My understanding, however, is that the small size and modular microkernel structure were the primary attractions. Many people (including me) don't like the idea of an all-powerful management engine in there at all (since it is a possible security hole and a dangerous idea in the first place), but that is Intel's business decision and a separate issue from the code it runs. A company as big as Intel could obviously write its own OS if it had to. My point is that big companies with lots of resources and expertise sometimes use microkernels, especially in embedded systems. The L4 microkernel has been running inside smartphone chips for years.

Professor Tanenbaum did the initial design and development of MINIX, a microkernel used primarily for teaching. He has helped guide it through the years as a small community around it has grown. Lately it has adopted much of the NetBSD userspace. The IME is a full operating system system running inside x86 computers. It gets run before whatever system on the actual hard disk even starts booting.

Related: Intel Management Engine Partially Defeated
EFF: Intel's Management Engine is a Security Hazard
Disabling Intel ME 11 Via Undocumented Mode
How-To: Disabling the Intel Management Engine
Positive Technologies - Learn and Secure : Intel ME: The Way of Static Analysis (takyon: I marked this one to not display at the time since it was a blog post from April and ran within hours of the preceding IME story.)
Purism Disables Intel Management Engine on Librem Laptops


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

 
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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Arik on Wednesday November 08 2017, @04:27PM (8 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Wednesday November 08 2017, @04:27PM (#594113) Journal
    I was just going to say the opposite. Unlike most people who disagree with the GPL, he can state his point concisely and politely and move on to other things. I like that.

    And he's a very smart guy with a rare knack for designing systems properly.

    I agree with his distate for the ME as currently done, and further I'm not sure his 'your choice/business decision' apologetics is sufficient or even accurate, but that, too, is a different point which doesn't need to be beaten into the ground.

    He's spent his life on a very useful codebase, gifted it to everyone, and it's being used by virtually everyone every day. And Intel didn't even bother to let him know they were using it, as a courtesy. I'd say the guy has every right to kvetch a bit more than he did.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday November 08 2017, @04:49PM (2 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 08 2017, @04:49PM (#594126) Journal

    Not that I'm arguing for Intel here. Not at all.

    I can understand1 why Intel would not notify him that every processor is running his MINIX. Because Intel is (rightfully) ashamed of the management engine and wants to keep it as low key as possible. Now everyone seems to know about management engine and nobody seems to like it. Is it any wonder why Intel would keep this quiet and not notify Professor Tanenbaum ?

    1Understanding a POV doesn't mean I like it

    --
    The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 08 2017, @09:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 08 2017, @09:42PM (#594253)

      The issue is Intel CANNOT keep it secret or low profile. It must go in the docs. So it should had been known long ago, as soon as they announced they had "this new ME thing that is good for you"™.
      https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=22467&page=1&cid=594246#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 08 2017, @11:22PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 08 2017, @11:22PM (#594303)

      Were they obliged to specify where the software was installed? if they merely put the license at the end of the manual with the preamble "this device works thanks to a modified version of software covered by the following license"? One might think it's some networking code used to boot.

      A corporation should be never excused for this kind of behavior anyway. They can afford a lawyer or two.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 08 2017, @05:21PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 08 2017, @05:21PM (#594151)

    Once Tanenbaum was told, he would go shoot his mouth off all the places, the ego-driven twit that he is.

    "INTEL RUNS MY MINIX ON THEIR IME BACKDOOR!!!111!!"

    • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday November 08 2017, @08:59PM

      by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday November 08 2017, @08:59PM (#594235) Journal

      Yes, but more politely.

      --
      "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Demena on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:28AM (1 child)

      by Demena (5637) on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:28AM (#594359)

      “Ego-driven”
      Yeah, right. Ever compared his statements with Linus’s statements? Obliviously not.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:51AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:51AM (#594377)

        I went through the whole flamewar between tanaenbaum and linus way back when. Linus was a young asshole, but tanenbaum was, and apparently still remains, an entitled jackass.

  • (Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday November 08 2017, @07:24PM

    by sjames (2882) on Wednesday November 08 2017, @07:24PM (#594206) Journal

    Given the license, it's not as if he has any sort of recourse other than like it or don't.