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from the anthropogenic-population-change dept.
We have a recent report by the US government that climate change is almost certainly caused by humans. However, we don't have the same rigor in gun death statistics; instead policy debate can rely only on FBI crime statistics which aren't directly comparable year-over-year due to changing measurement methodology (see "Caution to users").
This is because the NRA put pressure on the CDC through a Republican Congress to halt this research, under the logic that it promotes the cause of gun control.
But how likely is it that this is intentional, to use the US Second Amendment as an ongoing lightning rod for public attention (in a "bread and circuses" sense) while political business continues as usual on the back end (e.g. Paradise Papers)? Obama and a Democratic congress had the opportunity to restart this, which would presumably be just as "common sense" as the actual reforms they have been promoting on this issue, since whoever was actually supported by the facts would presumably have a motivation to set the program back in motion to improve support for their proposals.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:46AM (27 children)
The way the rest of the Western civilization countries are under tyrrany, right?
What would make US so prone to slide into tyranny when all the other countries don't? Perhaps you should start addressing that problem soon?
Seems to me that's on the line of Nivana fallacy [wikipedia.org]. We can't do better if we aren't doing perfect.
If you think it is not, please explain why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:05AM (2 children)
Quite honestly when I look at Europe, yes I do think of Tyranny. Do you believe the EU will dissolve peacefully, even if the majority of the peoples in Europe want it? The EU is collapsing slowly, it is inevitable, but it's going to be violent in little more than a decade.
You can already lightly see it at the seams with the EU planning to "make an example" of Britain after brexit.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:12AM (1 child)
I'm not seeing a majority of people wanting to dissolve it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @05:43AM
They left for a America long ago; those in Europe are the descendants of sycophantic, servile bootlickers.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:12AM (13 children)
As the revolutionaries noted, rights predated the government; rights are endowed by the Creator (e.g., they are a natural aspect of being a sentient being), and many of those rights are not even listed explicitly by the Constitution (which is why the Constitution talks about unenumerated rights).
The People vest a government with authority by delegating to the government some of the authorities that go along with having a right; a government does not create rights, and can only restrict The People via their explicit delegation of authority.
The 2nd Amendment was the founder's way of pointing out that the right to bear arms is so important and fundamental that it should be mentioned explicitly as a right that must never be infringed—currently, the Constitution doesn't even allow The People to delegate to the government the attendant authorities of this right.
Were the US Government to alter the Constitution and then pass laws restricting the authorities of the right to bear arms, there would be so many people who felt that they had not legitimately delegated said authorities to the government that there would be, without a doubt, a second Civil War.
The tyranny would be the restriction itself of the right to bear arms.
(Score: 2, Troll) by jmorris on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:24AM (5 children)
DING!! DING!! DING!!
The AC nails it! Repeal the 2nd Amendment and blood will flow.
The theory of government we operate under says we have "certain inalienable rights" and any attempt to infringe them is automatically WRONG.
Progressives of course disagree with the American theory. Which is why I have so many times pointed this out by saying that is the primary political division today, Americans vs Progressives. If you are American the Progressives are not your Countrymen. They forfeit the right to call themselves Americans when they renounce every principle we live by.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:52AM (4 children)
> Repeal the 2nd Amendment and blood will flow.
But not one drop will be spilled by members of the NRA. Nada. Zero. Zip.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Thursday November 09 2017, @05:12AM (3 children)
We are the children of Revolutionaries. The fire of Revolution lives on in us, we owe them the duty to uphold and defend what was given to us, that which was purchased so dearly in Patriot blood. Do not infringe our Rights. Do not confuse madmen and criminals with Patriots. If you were an American you would know these things.
If you want our arms we shall give the same answer Texas gave, "Come and take it" and the same as Sparta when they answered "Molon labe" and the same as the British received in reply to the question. How many times will free men supply the same answer to your question before you tyrants and cowards understand that NO MEANS NO.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:51AM
Fortunately is late in the evening, so my keyboard is safe from coffee.
But anyway, thanks for the laugh, has been a while since I had such a good one.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:47AM
You know how's jmorris like potatoes? The best part of his family is underground.
Ah, memories. Can't say good memories but anyway old memories, from childhood.
That's exactly how the ruling communist party was teaching us why we should fight the enemy of the people. Revolutionaries and blood and our debt to their sacrifice, all the kit and caboodle. A pity you were born in US, you'd made a great politruk [wikipedia.org] with the fire in your belly and the spittle on the corner of your mouth.
If you weren't American, you'd realise how hollow this sounds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @09:17PM
In Tejas, what they said was, "Moron Labia!" Being a gringo, you might have mis-heard.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:36AM (6 children)
You already gave away you right to punch other in the face, remember that "your liberty ends where my nose begins"?
I'd say you did it willingly without the government needing to force you - which means it is possible to cede some of your rights without this implying tyranny.
And if the majority of people agree to repeal the second amendment, it would be tyranny for the government to continue to keep it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:43AM (1 child)
Indeed, such a right would be self-contradictory. Try again.
Also, tyranny implies restriction; a lack of restriction cannot be an example of tyranny. Try again.
Try again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:06AM
Ah, the idiot libertarian again. I'll better stop here.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:45AM (3 children)
Indeed, such a right would be self-contradictory. Try again.
Also, tyranny implies restriction; a lack of restriction cannot be an example of tyranny. Try again.
Try again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:55AM (1 child)
F/O
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @05:40AM
Try again.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:34AM
Such as the restriction of people from deciding what should be restricted and what shouldn't.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @05:34AM (3 children)
The US is ALREADY in a state of tyrrany in case you have not noticed ...
How about looking at history. In Nazi Germany days, there were laws passed to prevent Jews from owning guns. Look how that worked out ...
From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany [wikipedia.org]
"The 1938 Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons, which came into force the day after Kristallnacht,[10][11] effectively deprived all Jews living under the Third Reich of the right to possess any form of weapons, including truncheons, knives, firearms and ammunition.[12] Before that, some police forces used the pre-existing "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on the basis that "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as trustworthy'"."
(Score: 3, Touché) by maxwell demon on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:38AM (2 children)
Yes, that was a discriminatory law, and as such a clear sign that the Nazis were going against the Jews (not that this was any secret at that point in time).
Note that Jews were also forbidden to spit on the street. Do I have to conclude that spitting on the street is necessary to prevent a Holocaust?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:22PM (1 child)
Haven't you heard? Diversity isn't good:
https://www.thenation.com/article/trumps-call-to-end-the-diversity-visa-has-nothing-to-do-with-national-security/ [thenation.com]
Note: that's the Nation, not the Onion.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @05:02PM
I really feel for the people of the Onion. The real news these days is so surreal, how do they satire it?
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:00PM (4 children)
Higher taxes == tyranny. It's one of the founding principles of the United States, they even teach it in elementary school history classes.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:13PM (3 children)
All depends on what you do with those taxes. The Scandinavian people are happy to pay a lot of more taxes than US, and they receive them back in form of benefits.
Like roads without potholes, a heath care that cost 1/3 the one in US and it's at the same level as the highest quality care in US (not to mention that the citizens pay a lot less), etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday November 09 2017, @10:43PM (2 children)
I spent quite a few hours on Scandinavian trains back around 1990. The Swedes weren't much for chit-chat, but the Danes were constantly bending my ear about how they pay such high taxes to support children and retirees, the Norwegians were mostly drunk at the time, they had just gotten a LOT of oil money...
Just because the Scandinavians appear mostly complacent about their taxes (and, don't get me wrong, I think a lot of their social programs are awesome and wish that we could duplicate them here) doesn't mean that red blooded 'muricans are going to lie down and let the gub'mint take their hard earned money and give it away to a bunch of lazy bums - that there is taxation without representation, or something, and they'll get their Congressmen to stop it, just you watch. It's really amazing how passionate some people with money are about keeping it out of the hands of the Government.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 09 2017, @10:59PM (1 child)
While in the same time pushing as much as possible their social responsibility into the hands of government (the kind of "coupons for low paid workers").
Because without socializing cost and privatizing profit, the rate of growth of their Bermuda accounts will suffer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 10 2017, @12:16AM
Most of the wing-nuts I know aren't even big-time enough to have an offshore account, but, by damn, the government better not take away anything that's theirs, including benefits that allow them to grossly underpay their workers.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Saturday November 11 2017, @07:42PM
[blockquote]The way the rest of the Western civilization countries are under tyrrany, right?
What would make US so prone to slide into tyranny when all the other countries don't? Perhaps you should start addressing that problem soon?[/blockquote]
Visit England, France, and even Germany. Gross restrictions on free speech, weapons. Full speed ahead on the tyranny train. So, yeah, I reject your assertion that this a uniquely American issue and that governments that have restricted weapons are not sliding into tyranny.
Also, gross misunderstanding of either my argument or the Nirvana fallacy. Probably both. The argument being, if your stated concern is unfortunate deaths then you should consider the _real_ causes of these deaths. But it's not. It's a thin excuse to go after your favorite wiping boy. Despite common sense. Despite the facts. Despite the obvious outcome.