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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday November 09 2017, @01:44AM   Printer-friendly
from the anthropogenic-population-change dept.

We have a recent report by the US government that climate change is almost certainly caused by humans. However, we don't have the same rigor in gun death statistics; instead policy debate can rely only on FBI crime statistics which aren't directly comparable year-over-year due to changing measurement methodology (see "Caution to users").

This is because the NRA put pressure on the CDC through a Republican Congress to halt this research, under the logic that it promotes the cause of gun control.

But how likely is it that this is intentional, to use the US Second Amendment as an ongoing lightning rod for public attention (in a "bread and circuses" sense) while political business continues as usual on the back end (e.g. Paradise Papers)? Obama and a Democratic congress had the opportunity to restart this, which would presumably be just as "common sense" as the actual reforms they have been promoting on this issue, since whoever was actually supported by the facts would presumably have a motivation to set the program back in motion to improve support for their proposals.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:29AM (14 children)

    by BasilBrush (3994) on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:29AM (#594425)

    The increased gun control and gun take backs in Australia have been extremely successful since you ask jmorris. Note the downward trend.

    http://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/4905120/data/chart3a-deaths-resulting-from-firearms-data.jpg [abc.net.au]

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  • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:45AM (11 children)

    by jmorris (4844) on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:45AM (#594432)

    Again with the obsession about guns, it really is a mental problem with you folks. Look at MASS MURDER [wikipedia.org] in the twenty years before (107 including the 35 in the incident the Progs used to get a gun ban) and the twenty after (76) and tell me that isn't pretty similar, considering that 35 massacre was a big outlier in the stats.

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:03AM (10 children)

      by BasilBrush (3994) on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:03AM (#594462)

      We're talking about guns you dumb fuck. I've show you a chart. It's shown the decline. Now if you are rational you'll change your mind.

      But you're not rational. Like any Trumpster, you think your opinions are worth more than facts.

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      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by mhajicek on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:33AM (7 children)

        by mhajicek (51) on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:33AM (#594468)

        If you were rational you would value a life equally regardless of how it was taken. If gun deaths went from 10 to 1, but machete deaths went from 1 to 100 you would call it a win.

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        • (Score: 3, Informative) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:41AM (6 children)

          by BasilBrush (3994) on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:41AM (#594472)

          It's just the gun lobby cherry picking statistics. It gun crime has gone up, then that's what they would be quoting. It hasn't so they look for something else.

          But In this case even when jmorris counted all mass murders, they'd still gone down. And that still wasn't good enough for him.

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          • (Score: 3, Informative) by mhajicek on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:05AM (5 children)

            by mhajicek (51) on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:05AM (#594479)

            The statistics I've seen have shown that violent crime has dropped significantly as gun ownership has increased. In addition, states which have enacted legal carry have seen significant drops in violent crime. Violent crime rates are at almost the lowest they've been in decades, and gun ownership is the highest ever.

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            • (Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:12AM (3 children)

              by BasilBrush (3994) on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:12AM (#594482)

              That's NRA propaganda.

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              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:32AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:32AM (#594519)

                Sapienti sat

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by mhajicek on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:44AM (1 child)

                by mhajicek (51) on Thursday November 09 2017, @08:44AM (#594527)

                Sure, my data is propoganda, and your propoganda is data. Right.

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                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:03PM

                  by BasilBrush (3994) on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:03PM (#594733)

                  You haven't cited any data. You've just made some nonsense claims about your recollection of data you say you saw.

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            • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Friday November 10 2017, @11:13AM

              by Wootery (2341) on Friday November 10 2017, @11:13AM (#595087)

              You'd best post a source, or the thread will continue the way it's going with people making unsupported factual claims that happen to align with their political stance.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by TheRaven on Thursday November 09 2017, @10:10AM (1 child)

        by TheRaven (270) on Thursday November 09 2017, @10:10AM (#594556) Journal

        I hate to agree with jmoris, but he has a point. The goal of gun control is to reduce murder, not to make murderers choose a different weapon. Would you consider it a win if the government banned ownership of Glocks, and the total number of gun-related deaths went up but they were all from guns made by a different manufacturer? If not, then removing guns but having the same number of people killed by arson and vehicular homicide isn't a huge improvement either.

        That said, the murder rate in Australia is about a fifth that of the USA, and has dropped steadily from 1.8-2.0/100,000 in the 1990s to under 1/100,000 in the 2010s, so his conclusions are nonsense, even if he is asking the right questions.

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        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by BasilBrush on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:07PM

          by BasilBrush (3994) on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:07PM (#594736)

          No he's not right. I gave a chart of actual data.

          jmorris went to an arbitrary list of "massacres" on wikipedia, with no specified parameters for inclusion, and the disclaimer at the top that the list is incomplete. Then added together the figures.

          And it still didn't support him.

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  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:42PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:42PM (#594606)

    "Deaths"****

    **** Includes suicides, actual suicides are not actually down because people kill themselves in other fucking ways.

    Please take your bullshit fucking graph elsewhere. Just because every lefty news outlet runs with the same fake news story, doesn't make it true.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Freeman on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:57PM

    by Freeman (732) on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:57PM (#594697) Journal

    Please note, the "gun control" and "gun take backs" in Australia were compulsory. They introduced a Special Tax to Buy back somewhere around a million guns which was somewhere around 30% of all guns in Australia. It was not about better regulations on purchasing guns, it was about taking way peoples guns. They were able to do it, because they have no "Right to bear arms" as America does. When you point out Australia as a shining example, you're pointing to a fundamentally different system. Also, they didn't have to fight for their Independence.

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