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from the don't-bring-a-paperweight-to-an-encryption-fight dept.
At a press conference, an FBI spokesman blamed industry standard encryption for preventing the agency from accessing the recent Texas mass shooter's locked iPhone. Reuters later reported that the FBI did not try to contact Apple during a 48-hour window in which the shooter's fingerprint may have been able to unlock the phone. Apple said in a statement that after seeing the press conference, the company contacted the FBI itself to offer assistance. Finally, the Washington Post reports (archive) that an FBI official acknowledged Apple's offer but said it did not need the company's assistance:
After the FBI said it was dealing with a phone it couldn't open, Apple reached out to the bureau to learn whether the phone was an iPhone and whether the FBI was seeking assistance. An FBI official responded late Tuesday, saying that it was an iPhone but that the agency was not asking anything of the company at this point. That's because experts at the FBI's lab in Quantico, Va., are trying to determine if there are other methods, such as cloud storage or a linked laptop, that would provide access to the phone's data, these people said. They said that process could take weeks.
If the FBI and Apple had talked to each other in the first two days after the attack, it's possible the device might already be open. That time frame may have been critical because Apple's iPhone "Touch ID" — which uses a fingerprint to unlock the device — stops working after 48 hours. It wasn't immediately clear whether the gunman had activated Touch ID on his phone, but more than 80 percent of iPhone owners do use that feature. If the bureau had consulted the company, Apple engineers would likely have told the bureau to take steps such as putting the dead gunman's finger to the phone to see if doing so would unlock it. It was unclear whether the FBI tried to use the dead man's finger to open the device in the first two days.
In a statement, Apple said: "Our team immediately reached out to the FBI after learning from their press conference on Tuesday that investigators were trying to access a mobile phone. We offered assistance and said we would expedite our response to any legal process they send us."
Also at Engadget.
Related: Apple Lawyer and FBI Director Appear Before Congress
Apple Engineers Discussing Civil Disobedience If Ordered to Unlock IPhone
Senator Dianne Feinstein Claims That the FBI Paid $900,000 to Break Into a Locked iPhone
Federal Court Rules That the FBI Does Not Have to Disclose Name of iPhone Hacking Vendor
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:24PM (15 children)
You have the gun, you have the dirt bag in a bag, so why do you need to get into the fucking phone?
CASE CLOSED ASSHOLES.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:31PM (4 children)
the problem is they have too many guns.
The way things are going, I doubt they are competent and/or willing enough to make a thorough investigation.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:15PM (3 children)
> and/or willing enough to make a thorough investigation
A thorough investigation includes checking out what could be hidden in his phone. Which is what they are doing, even if they probably know that no new information is in there.
They are doing their jobs, under intense scrutiny of lawyers and journalists.
Some threads need extra mod points and a "paranoid/delusional" mod.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:46PM (2 children)
Does it really? Really, really need it? I don't think so.
Unless there is serious evidence beyond a hunch that he was working with other people, or ISIS, it is a waste of taxpayers money. A phone is just digitized papers and effects, no different than a personal library 50 years ago with handwritten notes or logs. What part of the investigation demands a thorough review of all papers and effects? Digital information is not just in the phone either, but possibly within a plethora of online services and social media sites. What about his home computer? What about all the tiny little spots in his home where you could hide a tiny piece of flash memory documenting your horrific crimes?
When the circumstances of the investigation demand it, I can understand wanting access to the digital information on the phone and/or beyond the phone. However, in this case the evidence is overwhelming. Previous instances of mental issues combined with a history of domestic violence and threats against authority. He then takes out part of his wife's family at the church they go to.
Sorry, not seeing the need to spend large amounts of taxpayer dollars to find out his high score in Candy Crush. Not every case requires absolutely thorough forensic investigation of everything. The questions that needed answering, have been adequately answered, and further investigation is out of the scope required.
My problem with it is that just about any crime can be used as justification to force you to "turn out your pockets", and this is just the FBI taking every opportunity to be bitching again that they can't look somewhere.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday November 09 2017, @07:58PM
There is a point at which the case does not require the effort. That's for someone with access to all the other evidence to decide. Until that point, their job is to collect the evidence, which could include pictures or documents on a phone found at the scene of the crime. In the first hours after the crime, it could contain information that could save additional lives (booby traps in his house, or other harmful acts against his family).
It's not a conspiracy against your privacy, it's normal police work. With Vegas 5 weeks earlier, they obviously didn't want to repeat the "we don't know why", and someone's phone is typically the best place for the answer.
I do agree that, in this very obvious case, it's overkill and someone should just call it off.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Osamabobama on Friday November 10 2017, @12:47AM
The press release?
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:39PM (8 children)
Not only do they have the gun(s), not only do they have the dirt bag, in a bag. But they also have his past history. Domestic violence. Escaping from a mental institution. Bad behavior in the military. The military's failure to notify law enforcement of his bad past. And other signs this guy would be trouble.
What do they possibly think they will find on the phone?
Real answer: NOTHING. The purpose of this stink about accessing the phone is to rationalize a contrived justification for getting access to all of our phones, all of the time, so they can spy on us any time, any where, without a warrant, and most importantly without any kind of supervision or oversight.
That is what the police state wants. Push button access to all the details of all of our lives.
TelescreensCameras everywhere.Most importantly, the UI should allow unfettered access to all our lives, with only one hand so the other hand is free for . . . um . . .
eating donuts.
It is a reality TV show they are addicted to.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @02:41PM (5 children)
They are looking for a connection to groups such as ISIS, Sovereign Citizens, and ZoylentViews.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:52PM (2 children)
Perhaps I have bad experience with groups like Sovereign Citizens. I don't have experience with that group specifically, but my experience was directly with Southern Christian Identity, which also throws in some extra nonsense about Aryans being the master race, and proximately with various state militias.
I respect the philosophical underpinnings of anarcho-capitalism and similar political theories. I just wish I could help the people who are involved in those things see that it's not their beliefs in limited government, states rights (but not for cannabis, only for slavery and child abuse, and only for race-based slavery), gun ownership, etc--all very good things in abstract principle (can we have states rights without condoning child abuse and slavery?)--that make them monsters.
Their problem is that they themselves are narrow-minded, dangerous monsters. They blame some convoluted conspiracy involving Jews¹ and gays when their families fall apart. No, their families fall apart because their heavy-handed, paradoxically authoritarian, abusive horseshit forces people in their family who desire becoming healthy, well-adjusted human beings to choose between blood relatives and living a happy life independent of whatever mood the asshole is in today who thinks he's king of a kingdom with a grand total of 5 subjects and not even a quarter of an acre.
This is the grand paradox of the far-right I've seen with my own eyes. Get the government off my back, because my suburban kingdom only has room for one petty tyrant!
¹ For ISIS, s/Jews/the West/. Perhaps to simplify, the later fork of Yahweh worship always blames all its problems on the previous fork of Yahweh worship. Protestants blame Catholics. Christians blame Jews. Muslims blame Christians. And none of them can see how absolutely similar they all are, how they are all the exact same kind of monster.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:58PM (1 child)
About your conspiracy theories and the Jews, you are right to believe that it is utter hogwash. Some other misguide folks actually believe that Black people dominate the NBA! Such fools, and racists, too. It should be illegal to suggest that Blacks dominate the NBA. Fortunately, regarding the Jews at least, both sides of our congress are working on making it criminal to suggest that Jews are a majority in anything.
God Bless America!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 10 2017, @09:12AM
In 2013 "of the NBA’s 49 majority owners, Michael Jordan of the Charlotte Bobcats was the only person of color." https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/diversity-in-the-nba-the-nfl-and-mlb/ [fivethirtyeight.com]
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday November 09 2017, @04:03PM
That's right, we need to protect our people. So we need to know, is ISIS colluding with atheists like Devin? Is the alt-left getting into our military and making our military people violent? So many of our military people are doing violence, who's telling them to do that? We need to get into Devin's cell phone. Apple, who do they think they are? No, we have to open it up. I think security, overall, we have to open it up and we have to use our heads. We have to use common sense.
(Score: 4, Informative) by sjames on Thursday November 09 2017, @05:20PM
If they have a proper warrant, they can ask his cellular carrier. If not, they shouldn't be looking.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:33PM
Cynical me thinks the FBI actually knew they could probably access the phone with the dead man's finger but they didn't want to try (and preferred to wait till it wasn't possible) because they want access to everyone else's phone, not just the dead man's.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 09 2017, @06:28PM
They likely knew about the touchID and tried it.
Who knows, it might have even succeeded, but they aren't going to let that get in the way of trying to hit Apple's PR. Anything they can do to stop companies from protecting citizen's safety is well worth it.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday November 09 2017, @03:11PM
Apple doesn't need any help in discouraging people from buying their shit phones.