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posted by martyb on Tuesday November 14 2017, @07:48PM   Printer-friendly
from the Stayin'-alive!-Stayin'-alive! dept.

Study Suggests Women Less Likely to Get CPR From Bystanders

Women are less likely than men to get CPR from a bystander and more likely to die, a new study suggests, and researchers think reluctance to touch a woman's chest might be one reason.

Only 39 percent of women suffering cardiac arrest in a public place were given CPR versus 45 percent of men, and men were 23 percent more likely to survive, the study found. It involved nearly 20,000 cases around the country and is the first to examine gender differences in receiving heart help from the public versus professional responders.

"It can be kind of daunting thinking about pushing hard and fast on the center of a woman's chest" and some people may fear they are hurting her, said Audrey Blewer, a University of Pennsylvania researcher who led the study. Rescuers also may worry about moving a woman's clothing to get better access, or touching breasts to do CPR, but doing it properly "shouldn't entail that," said another study leader, U Penn's Dr. Benjamin Abella. "You put your hands on the sternum, which is the middle of the chest. In theory, you're touching in between the breasts."

The study was discussed Sunday at an American Heart Association conference in Anaheim.

Get touchy and save women's lives.

Also at Penn Medicine and the American Heart Association. Journal of the American College of Cardiology.

Other study mentioned in the AP article: Sexual Activity as a Trigger for Sudden Cardiac Arrest (DOI: 10.1016/j.jacc.2017.09.025) (DX)

Related study: Sex-Based Disparities in Incidence, Treatment, and Outcomes of Cardiac Arrest in the United States, 2003-2012. (DOI: 10.1161/JAHA.116.003704) (DX)


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Entropy on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:00PM (35 children)

    by Entropy (4228) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:00PM (#596952)

    Guys are scared of some sort of sexual assault claim by women.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:03PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:03PM (#596955)

    So much this. When everyone is so sensitive that the smallest touch or gesture is sexual harassment combined with the fact that just an accusation of sexual harassment (not even proof) having the chance of ruining your career it's no wonder people would be afraid to help.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:28PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:28PM (#596966)

      its why i refused to even entertain becoming a teacher. you need only be accused by someone (with or without reason) to have your career end. it seems only those with significant academic tenure (or fund raising capabilities) get any form of legal assistance.

      rotten guys deserve to rot, but the brush used to paint is incredibly broad

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @10:17PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @10:17PM (#597015)

        ^

        I subbed for a bit and once had a female student try and ignore me completely while walking away. I specifically made sure tug on her backpack to get her attention and she twisted around yelling "don't touch me like that!" Glad I gave teaching a pass, I have zero desire to deal with that level of fucked up shit and have my reputation tarnished by a stupid kid on a power trip.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:19AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:19AM (#597187)

          you are not allowed to tug on anyone's backpack.
          if a student ignores you, give them a bad grade and/or put that information in any recommendation letters you may write. but don't force them to interact with you in any way.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:06PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:06PM (#597328)

            Kids used to be spanked. In school. By teachers. With paddles or switches. Then that generation went on to defeat the world's most insidious, powerful military force.

            But now it's more important that kids feel super safe and keep their feelings intact.

            • (Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday November 15 2017, @05:35PM

              by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 15 2017, @05:35PM (#597372)

              Um, i was paddled and i'm a millennial (right on the edge). Paddles pretty much died in my childhood. I also fought in Iraq. I think the children of those who defeated "the world's most insidious, powerful military force" are the ones that went into parent helicopter mode and ended paddles.
              >But now it's more important that kids feel super safe and keep their feelings intact.
              Kids don't care about safety. It's the parents that push all that. How does that make you feel?

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            • (Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Wednesday November 15 2017, @10:22PM

              by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @10:22PM (#597494)

              Why can't I just hit adults when I don't agree with their behavior? All that matters is outcome, so clearly violence is justified even if it's not used in self-defense.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:38AM (#597200)

          I specifically made sure tug on her backpack to get her attention and she twisted around yelling "don't touch me like that!"

          Also, by law, touching people like that is considered assault. No, not sexual assault, just assault. Of course, it's not really something that would get you in lots of trouble either, but just keep in mind that in general, grabbing any other person or their property is one definition of assault. Nothing to do with teaching or brats at school either of either sex ;)

          But yes, at certain age you can get really assholes in school and it takes certain amount of "not giving a fuck" to actually remain sane. The good teachers not only "not give a fuck" but also manage to respect their students somehow too - basically they "don't give a fuck" about the brats, but respect ones that respect them. I'm not even a teacher, just remember days when I was in school!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @06:04PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @06:04PM (#597391)

          why do you think you have a right to touch someone else's kids property to assert your imagined authority? was class over and she didn't want to listen to your bullshit? tough shit motherfucker. if she is acting bad during class? give her a bad conduct grade. beyond that you have no authority or power. the pigs need to learn this lesson too. your stupid laws and rules are a bullshit psy op used to subjugate people, just like your slave indoctrination center you like to think is for education.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:09PM (21 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:09PM (#596958)

    >Guys are scared of some sort of sexual assault claim by women.

    Whether legal, social, or otherwise - this is true.

    Also, that statement about pressing on the sternum should not entail touching breasts - depends entirely upon the breasts in question (and remember, we're talking about heart attack cases), the sternum is definitely "in the neighborhood."

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Entropy on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:33PM (20 children)

      by Entropy (4228) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:33PM (#596967)

      I can't find a reference, but some guy was accused of kidnapping(and charged!) for trying to help a lost crying child in a department store. He was thankfully let go after being pressured to take a plea deal but with the current "males are the devil", and especially "white males are the devil" feelings of a lot of society looking out for the welfare of others is just not going to happen if you're in one of those discriminated-against classes for things like this.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:51PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:51PM (#596972)

        some guy was accused of kidnapping(and charged!) for trying to help a lost crying child in a department store.

        The correct thing to do is to flag somebody else down and ask them to accompany you while you locate a Mall cop. Even if people ignore you, you'll have multiple witnesses that heard you start "excuse me, this young child is lost".

      • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:34PM

        by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:34PM (#596994)

        Try to always have another adult present as a witness, and best is to be sure you're on video. I guess everyone will have to wear body cameras from now on.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:35PM (8 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:35PM (#596996)

        A plea deal is not "being let go." A plea deal, should, involve lawyers court time and lots of stress while waiting for the outcome, at least several weeks of this guy's life were screwed up by this.

        Being let go is walking away from the scene and never hearing about it again.

        --
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        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Snow on Tuesday November 14 2017, @11:23PM (5 children)

          by Snow (1601) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @11:23PM (#597054) Journal

          A plea deal means he had to plead guilty.

          Hardly getting off scott-free...

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:31AM (4 children)

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:31AM (#597072)

            Once you're "in the system" pleading guilty can be the smart and self-serving thing to do.

            We knew a family practice lawyer who got hit with a hear-say case about inappropriate sexual conduct with a minor. He could have fought it, with the number of "witnesses" they had (two or three with circumstantial evidence that might back up the "victim"'s story, plus the minor who had already recorded 3 conflicting accounts of the alleged misconduct, and several others with even less credible testimony to give) it would have drug on for years with an uncertain outcome. Instead, he plead guilty and got a 2 year sentence in a nice prison. Even if he fought and "won," the 2 years in prison is a far preferable way to spend your life compared to daily stress in court facing people who are stretching the truth, outright lying, springing surprises, and generally screwing with your life for something you didn't do.

            --
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            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by mhajicek on Wednesday November 15 2017, @03:45AM (3 children)

              by mhajicek (51) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @03:45AM (#597128)

              Plea deals are a travesyof justice. Either you can proove your accusation or not. The vast majority of cases are never tried, because the threat of trial is enough to make a guilty plea the wise choice in each individual case regardless of actual guilt, therefore an accusation is all that's needed to convict.

              --
              The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
              • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:00AM

                by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:00AM (#597134)

                >Plea deals are a travesyof justice

                They absolutely are, and they are the pragmatic reality of our justice system, ergo: our justice system is a travesty.

                --
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              • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:23AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:23AM (#597192)

                I'm a lawyer. There is an undefinable element of pure chance in every trial. People like to wax about how our system seeks truth and justice or say if you are innocent you should fight -- that's all bullshit when there is every likelihood that you will be convicted based on how someone misinterprets things or what their prejudices are. And god forbid you don't behave like a Hallmark card sterotype -- innocent or not you're fucked.

              • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday November 15 2017, @09:40PM

                by urza9814 (3954) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @09:40PM (#597471) Journal

                And, because they aren't spending any time trying to actually prove someone guilty in court, they get to spend that time out on the street fucking up someone else's life too!

                If more people actually took their cases to court the courts would be so backed up they'd have to drop prosecution on all the petty bullshit for lack of funding/staff.

        • (Score: 2) by Entropy on Wednesday November 15 2017, @09:16AM (1 child)

          by Entropy (4228) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @09:16AM (#597222)

          I was unclear. They tried to get him to plead guilty(plea deal) to some other bs offense, likely in exchange for probation. He stuck to his guns, and they backed down--They did not take it to court. I can't imagine the level of stress this guy had, and it took real guts to not take the "easy" way out. He had to face potentially years in prison(and people that scare the crap out of other people for a living) to stick with his principals and that he didn't do anything wrong--even though he was male. We all know if a female was in that situation she never would have gotten charged. (Though to me fair a transexual should probably just run away immediately.)

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @01:00PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @01:00PM (#597263)

            Better, but still Wrong.

            Our kids have autism, and we have had to "abduct" them from public places many times - it's remarkable how few people ever get remotely involved - it happens, and it has always turned out low stress and good for us, but it's really rare.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by edIII on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:52PM (8 children)

        by edIII (791) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:52PM (#597006)

        This is true. I was in a public space in a situation in which I wanted, and needed, to help a child. My first thought was being afraid that other adults would think I was some creepy pervy child molester. Thankfully, I found a woman close by that was able to help the child with me.

        If I were all alone in a park, you bet I would be nervous as hell about helping a child in need. For guys, you always need to find other people and witnesses to help you help others. It's too easy to be labeled something that doesn't go away that easily.

        I've not had to give CPR to a woman, but I did give the Heimlich once. I'll admit I was fairly uncomfortable touching her breasts during it, and I'm sure I didn't do it exactly right as I had no previous training at all. I was sincerely afraid that I was hurting her too. Thank God we cleared out whatever was stopping her from breathing.

        Probably the best thing for men to do in these situations is to pull out their smartphone and just start recording, even if only audio.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Sulla on Tuesday November 14 2017, @10:49PM (2 children)

          by Sulla (5173) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @10:49PM (#597035) Journal

          I was in the store the other day and one of my twins decided it was the right time to lose his shit. Naturally being in public and not wanting to be a total asshole I decided to take my screaming kid back to the truck. I just walked with conviction with the kid over my shoulder and hoped nobody called me on it. If I were to ever be called on this I would have nothing on me that I could use to prove that it was my kid. I suppose if you could calm the kid down they might be convinced to call you dad or whatever, but I kind of doubt if a kid is losing it for some reason in a store you will be able to calm it down enough when dealing with that level of bullshit.

          I just don't go out anymore.

          --
          Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Snow on Tuesday November 14 2017, @11:27PM

            by Snow (1601) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @11:27PM (#597057) Journal

            Hmm, this sounds like a problem public/private key cryptography and tatoos could solve.

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:23AM (#597191)

            I've had to do this several times. at least my son looks exactly like me, so it's extremely unlikely I'd need to convince someone I'm the father.
            luckily they do gradually calm down after they reach 3...

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by isostatic on Tuesday November 14 2017, @11:49PM (4 children)

          by isostatic (365) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @11:49PM (#597063) Journal

          I did give the Heimlich once. I'll admit I was fairly uncomfortable touching her breasts during it,

          right...

          I'm sure I didn't do it exactly right

          No shit, you were 6" too high.

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:09AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:09AM (#597066)

            Depends on how old she was. He could have been 6" low.

            • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:43AM (1 child)

              by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:43AM (#597076) Journal

              Thank you!

              Best chuckle today... Now I can't get rid of that mental picture of horrible, wrinkly, dangling wobbling sacs of.....ewwwwww....

              --
              --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by edIII on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:39AM

            by edIII (791) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:39AM (#597075)
            1. You've made an assumption of breast size. I took enough human anatomy classes to know to go beneath the ribs at least to do a compression so you can manipulate her diaphragm. Beyond that, I was just making educated guesses. She was stacked to say the least, since I needed to lift her breasts up while compressing an inch or two beneath her ribs.
            2. I wasn't high at all. Sober as a bird. ;)
            3. When somebody needs the Heimlich, there isn't a lot of time to find somebody else that knows the Heimlich, or any time to watch an instructional video on the Internet. You just need to do something when the person is looking at you frantically trying to breathe, whether or not they have large breasts. I'm sincerely grateful that it worked out.
            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
  • (Score: 2, Offtopic) by frojack on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:36PM (1 child)

    by frojack (1554) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:36PM (#596998) Journal

    Came to post the same thing, but thought I'd hold off.

    The study dated from a few years worth of data, before the current Hysteria.
    But the current climate will do nothing to help the situation.

    Not all tendrils of the Clinton machine have been severed yet.

    --
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    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday November 15 2017, @01:50PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @01:50PM (#597273)

      Not all tendrils of the Clinton machine have been severed yet.

      I'm curious why you think this is the result of the Clinton machine. Start with explaining why the person that was taken down first was a major Clinton supporter.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by driverless on Wednesday November 15 2017, @02:57AM (1 child)

    by driverless (4770) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @02:57AM (#597116)

    Wow. SJW-tardism has now driven things to a point where it may end up having a death toll associated with it...

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:36PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:36PM (#597425)

      This is nothing new... social mores have driven irrational and sub-optimal behavior in edge cases since their inception, even in the animal kingdom animals are doing socially driven stuff which leads to early death and detriment to the species.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]